When do we make a call on Evatt?
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- Dave Sutton's barnet
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
Well, one example is the brash lot down the road against whom defeat is, under Worthy law, a sackable offenceWorthy4England wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:10 pmAre we less financially stable than many L2 teams right now? Which L2 clubs do you reckon had a much better transfer window than us because they weren't in an imposed embargo?
(Looks like they might get Will Grigg this window too, so they're still at it)
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
It’s sort of a different question to me - when would I make a call on him? When I thought there was a serious danger we are going down, and there is still time to solve it is my answer. The hard thing to call is when that will be - is there a risk that the season gets canned at 30 games? And if so if we find ourselves bottom 2 in a few games (as we are heading in the form table) we are in big danger for me.
I‘ve answered another half dozen, because I think it’s fair he gets a chance with these signings but I’m not sure that’s how I will feel in a couple of weeks. I think it’s more of a predict how long he’ll get from FV and I don’t have a clue. I have to say I think they will act if they think there’s danger of relegation, based on what I would do. Relegation is game over for us. On the other hand they’ve invested a lot in him and are trusting him with pretty much running the club at the moment so in some respects if he went it would be a surprise.
I’ve taken solace in the fact that yesterday can be laid at the feet of the referee but every game seems the same at the moment. I’m also perturbed he hasn’t sorted the keeper problem and how low on confidence Delaney is can be laid at his door as well. I would be pretty nervous if I was Sharon now - potentially even sounding out Parky to see if he was up for a rescue job in a couple of weeks.
I‘ve answered another half dozen, because I think it’s fair he gets a chance with these signings but I’m not sure that’s how I will feel in a couple of weeks. I think it’s more of a predict how long he’ll get from FV and I don’t have a clue. I have to say I think they will act if they think there’s danger of relegation, based on what I would do. Relegation is game over for us. On the other hand they’ve invested a lot in him and are trusting him with pretty much running the club at the moment so in some respects if he went it would be a surprise.
I’ve taken solace in the fact that yesterday can be laid at the feet of the referee but every game seems the same at the moment. I’m also perturbed he hasn’t sorted the keeper problem and how low on confidence Delaney is can be laid at his door as well. I would be pretty nervous if I was Sharon now - potentially even sounding out Parky to see if he was up for a rescue job in a couple of weeks.
Last edited by officer_dibble on Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
Not convinced we have less staff looking after First Team than most Clubs in the League. We list 6, which seems about "average" to other Clubs websites I had a quick peek at, just that three of ours are physio/therapists....Bertie Wooster wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:49 pmWe are being run like a non league, amateur team behind the scenes, and that's the fault of FV (I will be ever grateful to them for taking the club on) - however, they have basically handed everything over to a very inexperienced non league manager - Evatt, Atherton & Duckmanton (who's basically just an analyst) that's it, do we have performance & fitness coaches ? what's Atherton's credentials on the coaching front ?, Barrow is that it ?
Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
Iles mentioned on his podcast that we’d be way down near the bottom of the league in terms of staff size.Worthy4England wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:26 pmNot convinced we have less staff looking after First Team than most Clubs in the League. We list 6, which seems about "average" to other Clubs websites I had a quick peek at, just that three of ours are physio/therapists....Bertie Wooster wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:49 pmWe are being run like a non league, amateur team behind the scenes, and that's the fault of FV (I will be ever grateful to them for taking the club on) - however, they have basically handed everything over to a very inexperienced non league manager - Evatt, Atherton & Duckmanton (who's basically just an analyst) that's it, do we have performance & fitness coaches ? what's Atherton's credentials on the coaching front ?, Barrow is that it ?
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
My question still stands - are we less financially stable than most Clubs in this division? (I suspect we don't actually know). Poor scrotey bastards had to sign two of our cast offs in the summer.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:21 pmWell, one example is the brash lot down the road against whom defeat is, under Worthy law, a sackable offenceWorthy4England wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:10 pmAre we less financially stable than many L2 teams right now? Which L2 clubs do you reckon had a much better transfer window than us because they weren't in an imposed embargo?
(Looks like they might get Will Grigg this window too, so they're still at it)
AND, even though losing to Salford should be a stackable offence, I still gave Evatt 6 more games to show he has a clue! All heart.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
I was laughing a few weeks ago, I think that it was the last home game but Duckmanton (I think) was stood in the box applauding Gilks for catching the ball from crosses in practice before the game started. He looked about 5ft 4 and 20 stone for a minute it looked like a Peter Kay John Smiths advert.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
Ahh, I'm not in any way suggesting we have the right staff!Bertie Wooster wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:38 pmI was laughing a few weeks ago, I think that it was the last home game but Duckmanton (I think) was stood in the box applauding Gilks for catching the ball from crosses in practice before the game started. He looked about 5ft 4 and 20 stone for a minute it looked like a Peter Kay John Smiths advert.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
I really struggle to see a single positive from this season and I could find them in most other ones. We are in the bottom league. However awful it sounds to say it, Bolton Wanderers do not belong in league two. We’ve spent only one other season here in our history. Not because we are blessed but because genuinely the town of Bolton has been able to sustain a team above the bottom level and still can. We know that Ken and his reign left us here. But we’ve assembled a squad with a plan to go straight back up. Let’s not pretend that wasn’t the expectation. Play offs in my view were and are a bare minimum requirement. And well, the performances this season have been soul crushingly bad thus far. The worst football I’ve had the misfortune of watching my home town club produce. And I’ve seen some bad stuff. We had some bad days in this league last time. But also a spirit and never say die attitude. It made it bearable. This has for me no redeeming features whatsoever. We played better football last season. Christ we played better football against far better sides being thumped in the championship in my book. Watching us ship 6 at home to Port Vale...I simply can’t comprehend how anyone can say that’s anything but the lowest of the low.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:20 pmWe didn't finish 13th in the Champo, but I get your point.BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:10 pmOh absolutely, the slide down the leagues has been horrible alongside the problems around ownership. We are one of those fallen ‘giants’ we used to look at with mock sympathy. Now it’s us.Worthy4England wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:18 pm^^ Without defending nor attacking particular managers circumstances, we've generally been watching "shocking" for 10 years.
I guess I would argue that the last three seasons have been particularly and spectacularly disastrous and it’s hard to take. In isolating 13th in the championship is bloody champions league winning compared to what we are suffering now. Of course the seasons were and are seen in the context of decline (apart from Parky’s first couple) but I guess by comparison we had it good as a mid table championship side even if at the time there were howls of dissent and upset.
In six of the last seven seasons we've lost more games than the previous term.
In six of the last seven seasons we've gained fewer points than the previous term.
In six of the last seven seasons we've scored fewer goals than the previous term.
In seven of the last eight seasons we've finished lower down the league ladder than the previous term – and that will unavoidably happen again this season.
It's no wonder we're not exactly chirpy. This is a historically, (club) record-breakingly bad decade-long decline. Just the last half-decade alone (before this season) we've suffered various campaigns breaking various all-time club records: Fewest league wins, fewest wins per game, most losses, lowest goals scored per game, worst goal difference and worst goal difference per game. And three relegations.
So while I see that things are fairly cack, I haven't minded this season half as much as the very recent past. And looking at the sweep of history, would I avoid that bad decade by obliterating the previous two and a half – somehow stop Robbie Savage scoring at Wrexham and settle for a quiet, dull eternity in the bottom division? Nah. It feels bad now because it's been so good, and I wouldn't swap that for the world. What keeps me watching - what keeps any fan watching – is the hope and belief that good days might come (again). If you've lost that feeling, then I'm genuinely sorry for you - the door's always open if you want to come back. Room enough in the boat for all sorts.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
Seriously, put in google the top few Clubs followed by "coaching staff". Yellow Pages it ain't. They seem to have maybe 6.The_Gun wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:31 pmIles mentioned on his podcast that we’d be way down near the bottom of the league in terms of staff size.Worthy4England wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:26 pmNot convinced we have less staff looking after First Team than most Clubs in the League. We list 6, which seems about "average" to other Clubs websites I had a quick peek at, just that three of ours are physio/therapists....Bertie Wooster wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:49 pmWe are being run like a non league, amateur team behind the scenes, and that's the fault of FV (I will be ever grateful to them for taking the club on) - however, they have basically handed everything over to a very inexperienced non league manager - Evatt, Atherton & Duckmanton (who's basically just an analyst) that's it, do we have performance & fitness coaches ? what's Atherton's credentials on the coaching front ?, Barrow is that it ?
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
Well, sorry mate but I can't help your lack of comprehension.BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:45 pmI simply can’t comprehend how anyone can say that’s anything but the lowest of the low.
Meh. Still very unlikely, Dibs. Below the dots are Grimsby and Southend (now there's an old three-way rivalry for those with 25-year memories) on 0.84 and 0.83 PPG respectively. We're currently on 1.16 – so according to my instruments we would have to lose the next 10 games to be on a lower PPG than either of them. Obviously it's possible but it's unlikely. And I mention it to hopefully make you feel better (again) but also because it's germane to the conversation; Worthy picked six games as a classic footballing timescale, but it would take a longer pointless run than that to threaten us.officer_dibble wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:24 pmis there a risk that the season gets canned at 30 games? And if so if we find ourselves bottom 2 in a few games (as we are heading in the form table) we are in big danger for me.
Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
There's no way 2 clubs are overtaking us.
I do remember that DSB, Dave Webb's Southend won when we lost in the playoffs didn't they?
I do remember that DSB, Dave Webb's Southend won when we lost in the playoffs didn't they?
...
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
Thanks - again! My heads firmly in Bolton Wanderers can find new ways to feck this up territory!Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:01 pmMeh. Still very unlikely, Dibs. Below the dots are Grimsby and Southend (now there's an old three-way rivalry for those with 25-year memories) on 0.84 and 0.83 PPG respectively. We're currently on 1.16 – so according to my instruments we would have to lose the next 10 games to be on a lower PPG than either of them. Obviously it's possible but it's unlikely. And I mention it to hopefully make you feel better (again) but also because it's germane to the conversation; Worthy picked six games as a classic footballing timescale, but it would take a longer pointless run than that to threaten us.officer_dibble wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:24 pmis there a risk that the season gets canned at 30 games? And if so if we find ourselves bottom 2 in a few games (as we are heading in the form table) we are in big danger for me.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
29 months (of the 36) to go until Evatt's contract expires. I can't see him getting the boot before the half way mark: ie December.
Às armas, às armas!
Sobre a terra, sobre o mar,
Às armas, às armas!
Pela Pátria lutar!
Contra os canhões marchar, marchar!
Sobre a terra, sobre o mar,
Às armas, às armas!
Pela Pátria lutar!
Contra os canhões marchar, marchar!
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
We just don't appear very well coached. I find that surprising because in the summer it seemed to me that one of Evatt's biggest strengths was his supposed technical and tactical understanding. I'm now beginning to suspect he has an idea of how his preferred tactical system operates when he has players capable of playing it, but not much else beyond that.
Unfortunately, I can't see any significant upturn in our form now until at least ome of the following three things happens:
a) we sign better quality players (or are just able to field them - performances should be better once John and Lee return to fitness, and especially so if Kioso returns)
b) we hire a competent, experienced coach to help lead the training sessions
c) we stumble upon an, on paper, easier run of fixtures (hello, February/early March)
I still think we should allow him until the end of the season to demonstrate he has the ability to turn things round, with the obvious caveat that if we look in serious danger of relegation he has to go, and I think that's probably also the opinion of the board. It does us no good to keep changing things and I still anticipate an improvement in results in the medium term, plus if it's true that things are sparse behind the scenes I think we have to take that into account.
I no longer feel very strongly about it either way, though. I think that's in itself quite damning really.
Unfortunately, I can't see any significant upturn in our form now until at least ome of the following three things happens:
a) we sign better quality players (or are just able to field them - performances should be better once John and Lee return to fitness, and especially so if Kioso returns)
b) we hire a competent, experienced coach to help lead the training sessions
c) we stumble upon an, on paper, easier run of fixtures (hello, February/early March)
I still think we should allow him until the end of the season to demonstrate he has the ability to turn things round, with the obvious caveat that if we look in serious danger of relegation he has to go, and I think that's probably also the opinion of the board. It does us no good to keep changing things and I still anticipate an improvement in results in the medium term, plus if it's true that things are sparse behind the scenes I think we have to take that into account.
I no longer feel very strongly about it either way, though. I think that's in itself quite damning really.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
Can’t recall if its was Webb but that sounds believable. Alan Buckley’s Grimsby and late arrivals knocking us down into the playoffs - John Beck’s Cambridge...
Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
I remember a 2-2 draw at burnden where Beck's Cambridge came back from 2 nil, Dion Dublin monstered our defence in an absolute aerial bombardment.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:04 amCan’t recall if its was Webb but that sounds believable. Alan Buckley’s Grimsby and late arrivals knocking us down into the playoffs - John Beck’s Cambridge...
Imagine what evatt would have to say about that side!
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
I say Evatt stays at least to the half way point of next season. We all make mistakes and he is new to this level of football. Some of us learn from our mistakes, some don't. Hopefully he is the former.
He is a defender trying to work out an attacking system without much coaching help. He need to stop us from leaking goals, giving teams a headstart and us playing catch up and losing! Go back to basics. We are not Brazil! Good teams are built on strong defenses. We went and got good attacking players and weak non league defenders in the transfer window when he came. That was a mistake. Get strong defenders in than build on top of that. We are suffering as a result of a mis-calulated transfer policy in the summer along with an inexperienced coach who needs time.
He is a defender trying to work out an attacking system without much coaching help. He need to stop us from leaking goals, giving teams a headstart and us playing catch up and losing! Go back to basics. We are not Brazil! Good teams are built on strong defenses. We went and got good attacking players and weak non league defenders in the transfer window when he came. That was a mistake. Get strong defenders in than build on top of that. We are suffering as a result of a mis-calulated transfer policy in the summer along with an inexperienced coach who needs time.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
Pep Guardiola's view on Lampard sacking...
"People talk about projects and ideas. They don't exist. You have to win or you will be replaced. I am not judging Chelsea's decision. I respect their decision. But our world is to win as much as possible."
"People talk about projects and ideas. They don't exist. You have to win or you will be replaced. I am not judging Chelsea's decision. I respect their decision. But our world is to win as much as possible."
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
This for me. Projects in football are nonsense. If you are a manager its about results. And potential over time to improve results. If we're talking projects and developing players and teams than transfers should be minimal because you have the team and your project is to work with them. If your project is just to keep signing players till you stumble across a formula that works then we might as well have just appointed someone to do that in the first place.Worthy4England wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:45 pmPep Guardiola's view on Lampard sacking...
"People talk about projects and ideas. They don't exist. You have to win or you will be replaced. I am not judging Chelsea's decision. I respect their decision. But our world is to win as much as possible."
Clubs can engage in behind the scenes projects to develop a whole football system from youth to first team. Sure. But the manager or whatever title they have is still about results with the first time in the present.
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Re: When do we make a call on Evatt?
Yes - it's a bit like any other job when there's a lot of change going on, which is most of the time, they don't remove the requirement to stop delivering on the main objectives (which in the case of a football manager is winning games). This notion that Evatt or anyone else should get an 18 month "free hit" isn't a great idea IMHO.BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:02 pmThis for me. Projects in football are nonsense. If you are a manager its about results. And potential over time to improve results. If we're talking projects and developing players and teams than transfers should be minimal because you have the team and your project is to work with them. If your project is just to keep signing players till you stumble across a formula that works then we might as well have just appointed someone to do that in the first place.Worthy4England wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:45 pmPep Guardiola's view on Lampard sacking...
"People talk about projects and ideas. They don't exist. You have to win or you will be replaced. I am not judging Chelsea's decision. I respect their decision. But our world is to win as much as possible."
Clubs can engage in behind the scenes projects to develop a whole football system from youth to first team. Sure. But the manager or whatever title they have is still about results with the first time in the present.
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