The Politics Thread

[Worthy4England]

Oh for a decent centrist party with people who work for, the people.

Just trying to test where you think centre is, what's the most centrist govt in your lifetime? For me they'd probably be Blair and Cameron (notwithstanding they both did things I really didn't like but you can't have everything)

Quite a lot of what you post doesn't feel very centrist...

[BWFC_Insane]

Oh for a decent centrist party with people who work for, the people.

Just trying to test where you think centre is, what's the most centrist govt in your lifetime? For me they'd probably be Blair and Cameron (notwithstanding they both did things I really didn't like but you can't have everything)

Quite a lot of what you post doesn't feel very centrist...

Blair, Cameron, Major….centrists. Starmer is too. May arguably though very odd times so hard to judge and then the vans…the goddamn vans.

[Hoboh]

Oh for a decent centrist party with people who work for, the people.

Just trying to test where you think centre is, what's the most centrist govt in your lifetime? For me they'd probably be Blair and Cameron (notwithstanding they both did things I really didn't like but you can't have everything)

Quite a lot of what you post doesn't feel very centrist...

Look just because in my opinion no society can exist without the rule of law and proper consequences if you fail to adhere to it does not make me right wing nor does paying money to a lot of people who frankly have no intention of working and contributing to said society.
You travel overseas you need a passport, sometimes a visa and have to comply with the country you visit laws, you don't just hop on a boat after paying criminals and conveniently lose any documents or even remember which country you have come from then get free everything. If you are fleeing war such as in Ukraine most settle in the first safe country they don't keep border hopping to where they want to go.
The right to peaceful protests, fine but when you sit in roads and stop emergency services because you have the brain the size of a sixpence then you should expect water cannon and batons followed by a swift court appearance.
None of this is right wing it is what allows a country and society to flourish.

[Hoboh]

Christ on a bike! The buffoon has already got 50+ backers.

[BWFC_Insane]

Oh for a decent centrist party with people who work for, the people.

Just trying to test where you think centre is, what's the most centrist govt in your lifetime? For me they'd probably be Blair and Cameron (notwithstanding they both did things I really didn't like but you can't have everything)

Quite a lot of what you post doesn't feel very centrist...

Look just because in my opinion no society can exist without the rule of law and proper consequences if you fail to adhere to it does not make me right wing nor does paying money to a lot of people who frankly have no intention of working and contributing to said society.
You travel overseas you need a passport, sometimes a visa and have to comply with the country you visit laws, you don't just hop on a boat after paying criminals and conveniently lose any documents or even remember which country you have come from then get free everything. If you are fleeing war such as in Ukraine most settle in the first safe country they don't keep border hopping to where they want to go.
The right to peaceful protests, fine but when you sit in roads and stop emergency services because you have the brain the size of a sixpence then you should expect water cannon and batons followed by a swift court appearance.
None of this is right wing it is what allows a country and society to flourish.

I don’t think there are many who don’t believe in consequences for crime. Take the big centrist Blair. Crime was a big part of his premiership. Crime reduced under new labour by over a third and they introduced the anti social behaviour measures too.

The thing about asylum is that we all know that you can’t simply expect others to take everyone. And we deny legal routes to asylum seekers trying to enter the country. We also know that without economic migrants many of our essential services have collapsed. So it’s right to introduce legal routes for asylum seekers that are practical (we did it for Ukraine so just like that) and manage to balance the need for economic migrants too.

Again I don’t think any major political party supports folk glueing themselves to roads. They just don’t. The thing is that you need to be careful with legislation as you head very quickly down a route the Tories are trying to take us down where the state defines what constitutes an acceptable protest. We’ve seen government ministers claim criticising the government isn’t acceptable. It’s why this is more difficult than it seems.

[Hoboh]

There is legitimate means for the deadbeats to put their case, in elections but given they are such a minority whilst trying to convince everyone they are actually the majority won't work.

I'm sorry but I will never see eye to eye with you on the illegals, it's a mess which others will pay the price for in the future, on top of what we are paying now. You say others cannot cope yet physically we are a small country with a population too large now and that's without a towns population appearing every year. You seriously think the majority of them come here to work?

[BWFC_Insane]

There is legitimate means for the deadbeats to put their case, in elections but given they are such a minority whilst trying to convince everyone they are actually the majority won't work.

I'm sorry but I will never see eye to eye with you on the illegals, it's a mess which others will pay the price for in the future, on top of what we are paying now. You say others cannot cope yet physically we are a small country with a population too large now and that's without a towns population appearing every year. You seriously think the majority of them come here to work?

I’m not sure I referenced ‘illegals’. The problem I have is we’ve closed our doors to our fair share of asylum seekers and made ourselves insular. At the same time illegal immigrants rock up on beaches and we take ages to process claims and in the meantime in many cases they disappear. It’s a mess. The fact remains for me that we need to take our share of real asylum seekers and at the same time work with the French and the rest of Europe to deal with the flow of people trying to enter illegally. I have far less sympathy with them if there are appropriate legal means of entry for genuine cases.

As for your first point it’s dangerous to take that view. The idea that a ‘common majority’ holds sway is exactly how you end up with authoritarian regimes who not unlike Johnson’s version of the Tory party will use the line that they ‘represent people and the country’ and therefore any criticism or opposition if them is ‘about the country’. Johnson used this all the time. It’s a slippery slope. There is no national defined ‘common sense’ or consciousness. We can allow for differing views. And different expression. There are already laws against causing disruption and it might be better if we enabled the police to enact them rather than trying to pretend they can’t in order to justify more authoritarianism. Just how I see it. If you are blocking roads or chucking stuff at art or whatever you should be dealt with by existing laws. And I doubt anyone is that opposed to some force to remove such people. It’s when you allow the state to more broadly define what they deem acceptable that I have the issue.

[Bruce Rioja]

I just listened around 30 minutes worth of Nicky Campbell's radio programme.
The biggest threat to our country and our chances of recovery just now is once again the Conservative Party membership.

[Worthy4England]

There is legitimate means for the deadbeats to put their case, in elections but given they are such a minority whilst trying to convince everyone they are actually the majority won't work.

I'm sorry but I will never see eye to eye with you on the illegals, it's a mess which others will pay the price for in the future, on top of what we are paying now. You say others cannot cope yet physically we are a small country with a population too large now and that's without a towns population appearing every year. You seriously think the majority of them come here to work?

On the first bit, isn't that largely how elections work. Some folks try and convince other folks they're in a majority position? TBF gluing heads to roads doesn't require the expense of baton rounds and water cannon. A simple change to the Highway Code to ensure that drivers had a no penalty priority would solve it fairly sharpish.

On illegals - this is a really weird narrative. Most of our immigration is not illegals - I don't think the UK is in the top 30 of countries accepting asylum claims (but I agree it needs addressing). So I'm still unsure what problem people are trying to address, because really from your words, the main problem you see isn't illegals, it's immigration in general (which of course we were told would be solved by Brexit)...

[BWFC_Insane]

I just listened around 30 minutes worth of Nicky Campbell's radio programme.
The biggest threat to our country and our chances of recovery just now is once again the Conservative Party membership.

I can’t listen to these things because they just find the extremes of views and pitch them against each other.

Have these melon headed Tory MPs forgotten that Johnson was booted out because he had 60 resignations and MPs lining up to say he was unfit for office? Or have they forgotten the opinion polls and the bi election defeats. The public don’t want Johnson. A minority of bone heads do.

I still can’t see it though. Johnson surely couldn’t command a majority in the house and very quickly it would break down. Then what? And given that would Johnson want to have a week or two In office before being handed an almost certainly unwinnable general election?

The problem as I see it is Mordaunt who was the likely unity candidate seems to have blown her support with her dismal performance last time. So it leaves the door open for Johnson, if he’s mad enough to seriously consider it. And Tory MPs are mad enough to not see what they are doing…actually…hang about…oh shit….

[Worthy4England]

£115k per annum, for life, for being an absolute clusterfuck?

[TANGODANCER]

I'm sorry but I will never see eye to eye with you on the illegals, it's a mess which others will pay the price for in the future, on top of what we are paying now. You say others cannot cope yet physically we are a small country with a population too large now and that's without a towns population appearing every year. You seriously think the majority of them come here to work?

Shoot me down at will, I care not. I no more have an answer than the next man. I do support Hobo's point t some degree, how many of them have work as a priority, particularly young unattached males.: The real reason for it all is if the governments of all the countries at war both internal and external put their energies into cleaning their own doorsteps they could make their own green and pleasant lands without moving anywhere. We know that will never happen of course.Our empireing has big ass-biting teeth and Mr Putin is doing his own empireing right now, but with tanks and missiles, not muskets and gunboats, no doubt seeing himself as the New Genghis Khan, but he's dreaming. It's 2022 and Iran is almost Biblical in it's law lord ruled un-democracy. It isn't the Quran that rules but the self-styled bully boys who mis-use its messages to rule by fear. They are but one of many.

I love England and know full well its benefits, but every benefit is offset by privatisation and pathetic in-fighting lunacy in its governments. If we take note of that August medical publication The Lancet, at least 25% of the N.H.S is already privatised (The Car Park control at our own General Hospital is a good indication. The Railways, Transport in general, Gas and Electric, you name it and it's been privatised.

Course, Bolton could always build a golf course.

[Worthy4England]

I just listened around 30 minutes worth of Nicky Campbell's radio programme.
The biggest threat to our country and our chances of recovery just now is once again the Conservative Party membership.

I'm not convinced, mate. Before the CP membership get to vote on anything, there's a step that is directly in control of their MP's. They could try and grow-up, agree a compromise candidate and all vote for that person who they could all get behind, but they're that fragmented I'd be surprised if this happened - bit like when Margaret Beckett put Corbyn on the ballot paper for Labour.

As bad as Johnson is, I doubt there are any Tories who command more support from their voters.

Democracy's great, when it doesn't serve up someone you think is a complete idiot.

[BWFC_Insane]

I just listened around 30 minutes worth of Nicky Campbell's radio programme.
The biggest threat to our country and our chances of recovery just now is once again the Conservative Party membership.

I'm not convinced, mate. Before the CP membership get to vote on anything, there's a step that is directly in control of their MP's. They could try and grow-up, agree a compromise candidate and all vote for that person who they could all get behind, but they're that fragmented I'd be surprised if this happened - bit like when Margaret Beckett put Corbyn on the ballot paper for Labour.

As bad as Johnson is, I doubt there are any Tories who command more support from their voters.

Democracy's great, when it doesn't serve up someone you think is a complete idiot.

Johnson likely leads to more chaos then very fast general election. How many Tories genuinely fancy that?

[Worthy4England]

I'm sorry but I will never see eye to eye with you on the illegals, it's a mess which others will pay the price for in the future, on top of what we are paying now. You say others cannot cope yet physically we are a small country with a population too large now and that's without a towns population appearing every year. You seriously think the majority of them come here to work?

Shoot me down at will, I care not. I no more have an answer than the next man. I do support Hobo's point t some degree, how many of them have work as a priority, particularly young unattached males.: The real reason for it all is if the governments of all the countries at war both internal and external put their energies into cleaning their own doorsteps they could make their own green and pleasant lands without moving anywhere. We know that will never happen of course.Our empireing has big ass-biting teeth and Mr Putin is doing his own empireing right now, but with tanks and missiles, not muskets and gunboats, no doubt seeing himself as the New Genghis Khan, but he's dreaming. It's 2022 and Iran is almost Biblical in it's law lord ruled un-democracy. It isn't the Quran that rules but the self-styled bully boys who mis-use its messages to rule by fear. They are but one of many.

I love England and know full well its benefits, but every benefit is offset by privatisation and pathetic in-fighting lunacy in its governments. If we take note of that August medical publication The Lancet, at least 25% of the N.H.S is already privatised (The Car Park control at our own General Hospital is a good indication. The Railways, Transport in general, Gas and Electric, you name it and it's been privatised.

Course, Bolton could always build a golf course.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they support illegal immigration. Not once, ever. Asylum seeking isn't illegal.

The amount of asylum seekers we let in is <9,000 a year since 2008 around 135,000.
The amount of legal migrants is huge by comparison - around 8,600,000 in the same timeframe
The amount of illegal migrants is unknown - but we have control of our borders so shouldn't be a problem for us anymore (snigger)

Which element are you trying to stop? Because if we stopped all asylum seekers and all illegal immigration, we're still letting 600,000 people a year in, through legal migration, which gets billed as a smaller number of net migrants (as we take away all the people that emigrated) but has a much larger impact on the composition of the UK.

[Harry Genshaw]

I thought I couldn't be any more worried about our country's future but then watching some of the news coverage last night and this morning, proved me wrong.

The number of seemingly rational people who said "Bring back Boris" was quite distressing.
"I know he's a proven liar, cheat, bumbling, workshy, corrupt, incompetent laughing stock but he got Brexit done and he's a character "

Fook me. We've had it.

[Worthy4England]

I thought I couldn't be any more worried about our country's future but then watching some of the news coverage last night and this morning, proved me wrong.

The number of seemingly rational people who said "Bring back Boris" was quite distressing.
"I know he's a proven liar, cheat, bumbling, workshy, corrupt, incompetent laughing stock but he got Brexit done and he's a character "

Fook me. We've had it.

Ress Mogg posted "Boris or Bust" - I have news for him, we already did the second bit, under Boris

[BWFC_Insane]

I thought I couldn't be any more worried about our country's future but then watching some of the news coverage last night and this morning, proved me wrong.

The number of seemingly rational people who said "Bring back Boris" was quite distressing.
"I know he's a proven liar, cheat, bumbling, workshy, corrupt, incompetent laughing stock but he got Brexit done and he's a character "

Fook me. We've had it.

I’ve not seen anyone I’d class as rational seemingly or otherwise say that. Just the usual Tory headbangers.

[Worthy4England]

I thought I couldn't be any more worried about our country's future but then watching some of the news coverage last night and this morning, proved me wrong.

The number of seemingly rational people who said "Bring back Boris" was quite distressing.
"I know he's a proven liar, cheat, bumbling, workshy, corrupt, incompetent laughing stock but he got Brexit done and he's a character "

Fook me. We've had it.

I’ve not seen anyone I’d class as rational seemingly or otherwise say that. Just the usual Tory headbangers.

For me, the only question is whether they're going to split over it. Their options as an MP will be "suck it up" or "join the jobless"

We've already had at least one of the 60 "I cannot serve in all good conscience" backing him.

Won't be long before there are others.

[BWFC_Insane]

I thought I couldn't be any more worried about our country's future but then watching some of the news coverage last night and this morning, proved me wrong.

The number of seemingly rational people who said "Bring back Boris" was quite distressing.
"I know he's a proven liar, cheat, bumbling, workshy, corrupt, incompetent laughing stock but he got Brexit done and he's a character "

Fook me. We've had it.

I’ve not seen anyone I’d class as rational seemingly or otherwise say that. Just the usual Tory headbangers.

For me, the only question is whether they're going to split over it. Their options as an MP will be "suck it up" or "join the jobless"

We've already had at least one of the 60 "I cannot serve in all good conscience" backing him.

Won't be long before there are others.

Others described his re-election as being ‘catastrophic’.