Tonight's Football

[BWFC_Insane]

I think with Dyche they've thought - who, other than Sam Allardyce, can do the work of Sam Allardyce?

Their opinion of themselves is laughable.

This. The ridiculous thing is Everton fans have been clamouring for a manager who 'organises them and gets them to show fight'. So they are happy with Dyche. Hate Allardyce. But Big Sam clearly has a superior record...

[GhostoftheBok]

Conte was taken ill with abdominal pain and will be out for at least a month after having his gall bladder removed. That man has had a rough year. Hopefully he recovers well.

[boltonboris]

The bloody gall of the man

[GhostoftheBok]

The bloody gall of the man

That's an offal joke.

[GhostoftheBok]

wrong thread

[Gary the Enfield]

The bloody gall of the man

That's an offal joke.

I think he meant it. Definitely intestinal.

[GhostoftheBok]

I think he meant it. Definitely intestinal.

A joke requiring guts.

[Gary the Enfield]

I think he meant it. Definitely intestinal.

A joke requiring guts.

Ye kidney mek it up!

[GhostoftheBok]

Ye kidney mek it up!

Oh lord. How can you liver with yourself?

[Gary the Enfield]

Ye kidney mek it up!

Oh lord. How can you liver with yourself?

I've been around a lung time. It's hard to keep trachea

[Gary the Enfield]

Ye kidney mek it up!

Oh lord. How can you liver with yourself?

I've been around a lung time. It's hard to keep trachea

I'll stop now though.......sick off ex-spleen-ing myself.

[GhostoftheBok]

I'll stop now though.......sick off ex-spleen-ing myself.

For the best. You're talking tripe.

[Bruce Rioja]

I think with Dyche they've thought - who, other than Sam Allardyce, can do the work of Sam Allardyce?

Their opinion of themselves is laughable.

This. The ridiculous thing is Everton fans have been clamouring for a manager who 'organises them and gets them to show fight'. So they are happy with Dyche. Hate Allardyce. But Big Sam clearly has a superior record...

Question - Do you know who Kevin Thelwell is, Inaneo?

Well, apparently, Kevin was appointed Everton's Director of Football in February 2022

So when Dyche pitched up with around 48 hours of the transfer window left, would it have been unreasonable of him to have expected to be presented with a list of pre-qualified transfer targets/availables/potentials drawn up by 'The Director of Football' and his technical team? I don't think so. In fact, I have that down as an absolute minimum requirement.
I think it was The Ghost (apologies if not) who said that perhaps the biggest threat to our club is us having Chris Markham pinched.
I think it's only a matter of time before a 'serious' club latches on to him/his work. However, I'm quite happy to see 'massive' clubs like Everton employ egregious living-stealers such as Kevin Thelwall who's clearly unable to meet the most very basic of his job's requirements. The worry is that one day someone as switched-on as Dyche will draw the attention of his employers towards Markham.

[GhostoftheBok]

I think it was The Ghost (apologies if not) who said that perhaps the biggest threat to our club is us having Chris Markham pinched.

The thing with Dyche switching his attention to Markham is that, depending on the Everton structure, it simply won't work like that. Usually these days the manager (head coach, whatever the title) works FOR the DoF, Sporting Direct (believe that's the Everton one, from memory), Chief Sporting Officer or whatever the title is. At the very least they are kind of equals and have different remits. It's uncommon for a manager to be able to hire a DoF, usually the DoF can fire the coach. Each title usually confers some nuance, but the duties are so varied its hard to keep track even in the industry.

At our gaff you get the feeling Chris works for Ian, somewhat. Ian runs the footballing side now and takes good advice, but calls the shots on that part of the business. That's no longer the standard model in the upper leagues, so I wouldn't worry that Sean might personally poach someone.

I believe that Everton's version of Markham is Dan Purdy, who has worked his way up at Everton and been in that job since just before the pandemic took off. If Dyche were to want that position changing (not something he could order, unless they have changed the remit for him) then he'd probably look at Ian Butterworth, who was brought in at Burnley from QPR by Dyche.

We are probably quite well positioned to protect ourselves from the football department getting pinched, as they believe they will get to the Prem and they have been worked into the ownership of the club.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think with Dyche they've thought - who, other than Sam Allardyce, can do the work of Sam Allardyce?

Their opinion of themselves is laughable.

This. The ridiculous thing is Everton fans have been clamouring for a manager who 'organises them and gets them to show fight'. So they are happy with Dyche. Hate Allardyce. But Big Sam clearly has a superior record...

Question - Do you know who Kevin Thelwell is, Inaneo?

Well, apparently, Kevin was appointed Everton's Director of Football in February 2022

So when Dyche pitched up with around 48 hours of the transfer window left, would it have been unreasonable of him to have expected to be presented with a list of pre-qualified transfer targets/availables/potentials drawn up by 'The Director of Football' and his technical team? I don't think so. In fact, I have that down as an absolute minimum requirement.
I think it was The Ghost (apologies if not) who said that perhaps the biggest threat to our club is us having Chris Markham pinched.
I think it's only a matter of time before a 'serious' club latches on to him/his work. However, I'm quite happy to see 'massive' clubs like Everton employ egregious living-stealers such as Kevin Thelwall who's clearly unable to meet the most very basic of his job's requirements. The worry is that one day someone as switched-on as Dyche will draw the attention of his employers towards Markham.

Quite. I suppose you could question whether the failure lies there or whether Everton's owners simply don't want to spend money, or indeed whether agents are steering their players well away from Goodison - understandably so.

Its arguably a bit of all three.

Arsenal fans have been on at their DoF Edu until they started winning. I suspect that its a lot easier as DoF or similar role down here than the premiership. Yes some clubs have seemingly broken through like Brighton but they will eventually have their scraps picked and will struggle again. I think its why some of the great old guard of managers aren't in the game now because the routes they'd take to 'overperform' have dried up to a large extent. You can't trade in older players as easily now as they're all on massive contracts, younger players the same, foreign 'bargains' are few and far between and become ultra competitive.....

[GhostoftheBok]

Yes some clubs have seemingly broken through like Brighton but they will eventually have their scraps picked and will struggle again.

Brighton a good example of a club that had their guys poached. Dan Ashworth went to Toon and then Paul Winstanley was almost immediately taken to Chelsea following Potter's move. They're now onto Sam Jewell.

Brighton have a system by which their staff have built-in successors who shadow their work, because they assume they're so good at this that people will steal them. Jewell and Winstanley were both internal appointments to the senior job.

[Worthy4England]

I have to say, I'm not convinced by the DoF "model." For all the places it's worked, I reckon there's multiples where it hasn't..I don't for one minute think Guardiola is presented with fait a'compls. I also don't think that Markham types are unimportant - absolutely essential. Best Intel, is best intel, but the fella at the sharp end is going to carry the can.

You can do everything calcuable to min/max your personnel, but all teams are trying to do that. So like for like, it's not differentiation...the differentiation for me, has to come from the gaffer - less than optimal winner type person...

[GhostoftheBok]

I have to say, I'm not convinced by the DoF "model." For all the places it's worked, I reckon there's multiples where it hasn't..I don't for one minute think Guardiola is presented with fait a'compls. I also don't think that Markham types are unimportant - absolutely essential. Best Intel, is best intel, but the fella at the sharp end is going to carry the can.

You can do everything calcuable to min/max your personnel, but all teams are trying to do that. So like for like, it's not differentiation...the differentiation for me, has to come from the gaffer - less than optimal winner type person...

I don't think I agree, as far as I followed that; but I'd also not be arsed arguing the point. Our model is working, so we're fine. Let's hope we continue winning football matches because of it.

[Worthy4England]

I have to say, I'm not convinced by the DoF "model." For all the places it's worked, I reckon there's multiples where it hasn't..I don't for one minute think Guardiola is presented with fait a'compls. I also don't think that Markham types are unimportant - absolutely essential. Best Intel, is best intel, but the fella at the sharp end is going to carry the can.

You can do everything calcuable to min/max your personnel, but all teams are trying to do that. So like for like, it's not differentiation...the differentiation for me, has to come from the gaffer - less than optimal winner type person...

I don't think I agree, as far as I followed that; but I'd also not be arsed arguing the point. Our model is working, so we're fine. Let's hope we continue winning football matches because of it.

I'll try a different way. How many times do you hear the phrase "Well we're blaming <manager> but I don't think he had much say in <player x> coming in. Not his sort of player" You break the chain between the person recruiting and the person tasked with putting points on the board. Sometimes it feels that they're not joined at the hip. Not so in our case, currently. But when that occurs it's feels like it's usually the Manager/Coach carrying the can..

[BWFC_Insane]

I have to say, I'm not convinced by the DoF "model." For all the places it's worked, I reckon there's multiples where it hasn't..I don't for one minute think Guardiola is presented with fait a'compls. I also don't think that Markham types are unimportant - absolutely essential. Best Intel, is best intel, but the fella at the sharp end is going to carry the can.

You can do everything calcuable to min/max your personnel, but all teams are trying to do that. So like for like, it's not differentiation...the differentiation for me, has to come from the gaffer - less than optimal winner type person...

Yeah spot on for me. A manager has to make the decisions. A Markham there with a team to provide intelligence and data is critical.

But the art of management is assembling a team and getting the best out of it. If half that is done outside your control then I think in many cases it’s doomed to failure.

And frankly in no business would someone be responsible for something but have someone else deciding on what tools they get to do that (yes it happens but usually as a result of constraints rather than as a good design).