Margaret Thatcher

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'm too young to remember her, and to me, Thatcherite economics seem to make a lot of sense. There seems to be something of consensus among people who comment on these things that Thatcher's difficult decisions paved the way for the relative prosperity we have enjoyed for over a decade. Yet it is clear that many people hate Thatcher with a passion (it has been commented that my avatar generates a nauseating effect), and to some extent the Conservatives as well by association.

So tell me, in your own words and based on your own experiences, why do YOU hate Margaret Thatcher?

[Albert Tatlock's Dad]

I'm too young to remember her, and to me, Thatcherite economics seem to make a lot of sense. There seems to be something of consensus among people who comment on these things that Thatcher's difficult decisions paved the way for the relative prosperity we have enjoyed for a decade. Yet it is clear that many people hate Thatcher with a passion (it has been commented that my avatar generates a nauseating effect), and to some extent the Conservatives as well by association.

So tell me, in your own words and based on your own experiences, why do YOU hate Margaret Thatcher?

I don't know where to begin.....

Maybe mass unemployment, rampant interest rates, and a 'everyman for himself' attitude will do for starters. Don't even start me on schools and the health service....

I just wish that Dennis had become a Hindu before his death so we could have chucked her on the funeral pyre.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

But the way I understand it was that Thatcher inherited an inefficient economy already on the slide and took necessarily painful short-term steps to put things right, and that her health and education reforms have been enduring, even though we are approaching ten years of Labour government.

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

Hate her!! Are you nut's?

If it wasn't for her, I would be earning half of what I'm on now!! She has been wrong in a number of issues, but when it came to the countries armed forces she was a true Commander In Chief.

I find it strange that the only PM since the second World War with a pair a bxllocks was a woman. People have always commented that we have the greatest Army in the World but in my view this has only been the case during her reign (I of course refer to post World War 2). Since she stepped down our countries armed forces world renown professionalism and incredibly high standards have slowly depleted (never more so then under Labour) to the point of real concern, outside our main front line troops - the Para's and the Bootnecks (Marines).

Yes she had a 'special' relationship with the President, but I honestly believe that if he was to ask her to send the countries forces to the Middle East because Saddam has been seen by satellite setting off fireworks in his back garden, he would have received a very polite "go fxck yourself Ronald" (Star Wars anyone?)

She may have been less then adequate on the domestic from, but as for as an international representation she was second to none.

Lot’s of people hated the fact that she cut the Welfare State, but when you look at the amount of people that were more then happy to live of the state, and the amount a young girl’s that were getting pregnant in order to do so, action needed to be taken . Wait a minute? Aren’t we back to that situation now? Mmmmm strange that.

She put a huge amount of people on the dole with the coal situation, but when you look at the fact that we had only twenty five years of coal left a change needed to be taken. It would have been so easy for her to see out her term and pass the buck with this issue to the next PM who would most probably do the same until it was to late. This however was not her style, she wasn’t called the ‘Iron Lady’ for nothing. Think of her as you will, but dodge an issue she did not!!

Hate Margaret Thatcher? Sorry, not this Callsign!!

[Albert Tatlock's Dad]

Hate her!! Are you nut's?

If it wasn't for her, I would be earning half of what I'm on now!! She has been wrong in a number of issues, but when it came to the countries armed forces she was a true Commander In Chief.

I find it strange that the only PM since the second World War with a pair a bxllocks was a woman. People have always commented that we have the greatest Army in the World but in my view this has only been the case during her reign (I of course refer to post World War 2). Since she stepped down our countries armed forces world renown professionalism and incredibly high standards have slowly depleted (never more so then under Labour) to the point of real concern, outside our main front line troops - the Para's and the Bootnecks (Marines).

Yes she had a 'special' relationship with the President, but I honestly believe that if he was to ask her to send the countries forces to the Middle East because Saddam has been seen by satellite setting off fireworks in his back garden, he would have received a very polite "go fxck yourself Ronald" (Star Wars anyone?)

She may have been less then adequate on the domestic from, but as for as an international representation she was second to none.

Lot’s of people hated the fact that she cut the Welfare State, but when you look at the amount of people that were more then happy to live of the state, and the amount a young girl’s that were getting pregnant in order to do so, action needed to be taken . Wait a minute? Aren’t we back to that situation now? Mmmmm strange that.

She put a huge amount of people on the dole with the coal situation, but when you look at the fact that we had only twenty five years of coal left a change needed to be taken. It would have been so easy for her to see out her term and pass the buck with this issue to the next PM who would most probably do the same until it was to late. This however was not her style, she wasn’t called the ‘Iron Lady’ for nothing. Think of her as you will, but dodge an issue she did not!!

Hate Margaret Thatcher? Sorry, not this Callsign!!

She'd turn on her knees and proffer her backside for little Ronnie and don't you believe otherwise.

Yes changes were needed but she went too far.

Little girls getting pregnant for a house??? Bloody urban legend. maybe 0.05% of teenage mums are like that.

I can't believe anyone believes that kind of crap anymore!

You must be under 30 or a paid up Nazi!

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

She put a huge amount of people on the dole with the coal situation, but when you look at the fact that we had only twenty five years of coal left a change needed to be taken. It would have been so easy for her to see out her term and pass the buck with this issue to the next PM who would most probably do the same until it was to late. This however was not her style, she wasn’t called the ‘Iron Lady’ for nothing. Think of her as you will, but dodge an issue she did not!!

This point always inerests me - the number of miners 'she put on the dole'. Again, the way I understand it was that she stopped other areas of British business subsidising British mining, and it wasn't efficient it enough to carry on in its own right. If there is a discussion to be had about the miners' lives that were ruined after being 'thrown on the scrapheap' in their 40s and 50s, aren't the people who put them in that artificially propped-up position in the first place, saddling the country with a ball and chain that couldn't be carried around forever, equally as culpable?

[Albert Tatlock's Dad]

She put a huge amount of people on the dole with the coal situation, but when you look at the fact that we had only twenty five years of coal left a change needed to be taken. It would have been so easy for her to see out her term and pass the buck with this issue to the next PM who would most probably do the same until it was to late. This however was not her style, she wasn’t called the ‘Iron Lady’ for nothing. Think of her as you will, but dodge an issue she did not!!

This point always inerests me - the number of miners 'she put on the dole'. Again, the way I understand it was that she stopped other areas of British business subsidising British mining, and it wasn't efficient it enough to carry on in its own right. If there is a discussion to be had about the miners' lives that were ruined after being 'thrown on the scrapheap' in their 40s and 50s, aren't the people who put them in that artificially propped-up position in the first place, saddling the country with a ball and chain that couldn't be carried around forever, equally as culpable?

Most of the mines that were closed would now be providing us with coal at a cheaper price per tonnage than we currently import it at. We still have massive reserves of coal that will take billions of pounds to re-open.

But that's just a small matter. It was more important to settle a personal vendetta with Scargill (who was a total prat and did the miner's cause no good at all).

But what did we expect when we had Michael Foot as an opposition leader!!! Thatcher's reign was a much to do with the left wing of the labour party as it was the Tory fascists.

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

Hate her!! Are you nut's?

If it wasn't for her, I would be earning half of what I'm on now!! She has been wrong in a number of issues, but when it came to the countries armed forces she was a true Commander In Chief.

I find it strange that the only PM since the second World War with a pair a bxllocks was a woman. People have always commented that we have the greatest Army in the World but in my view this has only been the case during her reign (I of course refer to post World War 2). Since she stepped down our countries armed forces world renown professionalism and incredibly high standards have slowly depleted (never more so then under Labour) to the point of real concern, outside our main front line troops - the Para's and the Bootnecks (Marines).

Yes she had a 'special' relationship with the President, but I honestly believe that if he was to ask her to send the countries forces to the Middle East because Saddam has been seen by satellite setting off fireworks in his back garden, he would have received a very polite "go fxck yourself Ronald" (Star Wars anyone?)

She may have been less then adequate on the domestic from, but as for as an international representation she was second to none.

Lot’s of people hated the fact that she cut the Welfare State, but when you look at the amount of people that were more then happy to live of the state, and the amount a young girl’s that were getting pregnant in order to do so, action needed to be taken . Wait a minute? Aren’t we back to that situation now? Mmmmm strange that.

She put a huge amount of people on the dole with the coal situation, but when you look at the fact that we had only twenty five years of coal left a change needed to be taken. It would have been so easy for her to see out her term and pass the buck with this issue to the next PM who would most probably do the same until it was to late. This however was not her style, she wasn’t called the ‘Iron Lady’ for nothing. Think of her as you will, but dodge an issue she did not!!

Hate Margaret Thatcher? Sorry, not this Callsign!!

She'd turn on her knees and proffer her backside for little Ronnie and don't you believe otherwise.

Really, well who was she servicing when she refused point blank, when Reagan asked for our assistance in Little Ronnie's request for us to help him in supporting the Taliban against those nasty old Russians in Afganistan.

Yes changes were needed but she went too far.

You could well be right there, she probably did go to far. Though I think it would have to come no matter who was in the chair. She could well have been to stubburn a person to be the ideal person to deal with it, but at least she stepped up.

Little girls getting pregnant for a house??? Bloody urban legend. maybe 0.05% of teenage mums are like that.

I would honestly say that the percentage is a great deal higher then that.

I can't believe anyone believes that kind of crap anymore!

You must be under 30 or a paid up Nazi!

I truly wish I was under 30. A paid up Nazi? Why are you resorting to name calling? We have a difference of opinion, it's that simple. I see no reason for you to have a personal pop at me simply because of my personal opinion. I have no problem debating our opinions, but if you want to resort to personal insults...well that's a bad daft don't you think?

[Albert Tatlock's Dad]

Hate her!! Are you nut's?

If it wasn't for her, I would be earning half of what I'm on now!! She has been wrong in a number of issues, but when it came to the countries armed forces she was a true Commander In Chief.

I find it strange that the only PM since the second World War with a pair a bxllocks was a woman. People have always commented that we have the greatest Army in the World but in my view this has only been the case during her reign (I of course refer to post World War 2). Since she stepped down our countries armed forces world renown professionalism and incredibly high standards have slowly depleted (never more so then under Labour) to the point of real concern, outside our main front line troops - the Para's and the Bootnecks (Marines).

Yes she had a 'special' relationship with the President, but I honestly believe that if he was to ask her to send the countries forces to the Middle East because Saddam has been seen by satellite setting off fireworks in his back garden, he would have received a very polite "go fxck yourself Ronald" (Star Wars anyone?)

She may have been less then adequate on the domestic from, but as for as an international representation she was second to none.

Lot’s of people hated the fact that she cut the Welfare State, but when you look at the amount of people that were more then happy to live of the state, and the amount a young girl’s that were getting pregnant in order to do so, action needed to be taken . Wait a minute? Aren’t we back to that situation now? Mmmmm strange that.

She put a huge amount of people on the dole with the coal situation, but when you look at the fact that we had only twenty five years of coal left a change needed to be taken. It would have been so easy for her to see out her term and pass the buck with this issue to the next PM who would most probably do the same until it was to late. This however was not her style, she wasn’t called the ‘Iron Lady’ for nothing. Think of her as you will, but dodge an issue she did not!!

Hate Margaret Thatcher? Sorry, not this Callsign!!

She'd turn on her knees and proffer her backside for little Ronnie and don't you believe otherwise.

Really, well who was she servicing when she refused point blank, when Reagan asked for our assistance in Little Ronnie's request for us to help him in supporting the Taliban against those nasty old Russians in Afganistan.

Yes changes were needed but she went too far.

You could well be right there, she probably did go to far. Though I think it would have to come no matter who was in the chair. She could well have been to stubburn a person to be the ideal person to deal with it, but at least she stepped up.

Little girls getting pregnant for a house??? Bloody urban legend. maybe 0.05% of teenage mums are like that.

I would honestly say that the percentage is a great deal higher then that.

I can't believe anyone believes that kind of crap anymore!

You must be under 30 or a paid up Nazi!

I truly wish I was under 30. A paid up Nazi? Why are you resorting to name calling? We have a difference of opinion, it's that simple. I see no reason for you to have a personal pop at me simply because of my personal opinion. I have no problem debating our opinions, but if you want to resort to personal insults...well that's a bad daft don't you think?

Maybe a bit extreme but I shouldn't really be contributing to this thread. Even the thought of her gives me shivers. So I apologise for that.

But, have a look at Chile's record under Gen Pinochet when you have time. That's the sort of model she was looking at, economically, for this country. People starved in the streets for the pursuit of the 'free economy'.

Anyway, what size jackboots do you take?

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

Hate her!! Are you nut's?

If it wasn't for her, I would be earning half of what I'm on now!! She has been wrong in a number of issues, but when it came to the countries armed forces she was a true Commander In Chief.

I find it strange that the only PM since the second World War with a pair a bxllocks was a woman. People have always commented that we have the greatest Army in the World but in my view this has only been the case during her reign (I of course refer to post World War 2). Since she stepped down our countries armed forces world renown professionalism and incredibly high standards have slowly depleted (never more so then under Labour) to the point of real concern, outside our main front line troops - the Para's and the Bootnecks (Marines).

Yes she had a 'special' relationship with the President, but I honestly believe that if he was to ask her to send the countries forces to the Middle East because Saddam has been seen by satellite setting off fireworks in his back garden, he would have received a very polite "go fxck yourself Ronald" (Star Wars anyone?)

She may have been less then adequate on the domestic from, but as for as an international representation she was second to none.

Lot’s of people hated the fact that she cut the Welfare State, but when you look at the amount of people that were more then happy to live of the state, and the amount a young girl’s that were getting pregnant in order to do so, action needed to be taken . Wait a minute? Aren’t we back to that situation now? Mmmmm strange that.

She put a huge amount of people on the dole with the coal situation, but when you look at the fact that we had only twenty five years of coal left a change needed to be taken. It would have been so easy for her to see out her term and pass the buck with this issue to the next PM who would most probably do the same until it was to late. This however was not her style, she wasn’t called the ‘Iron Lady’ for nothing. Think of her as you will, but dodge an issue she did not!!

Hate Margaret Thatcher? Sorry, not this Callsign!!

She'd turn on her knees and proffer her backside for little Ronnie and don't you believe otherwise.

Really, well who was she servicing when she refused point blank, when Reagan asked for our assistance in Little Ronnie's request for us to help him in supporting the Taliban against those nasty old Russians in Afganistan.

Yes changes were needed but she went too far.

You could well be right there, she probably did go to far. Though I think it would have to come no matter who was in the chair. She could well have been to stubburn a person to be the ideal person to deal with it, but at least she stepped up.

Little girls getting pregnant for a house??? Bloody urban legend. maybe 0.05% of teenage mums are like that.

I would honestly say that the percentage is a great deal higher then that.

I can't believe anyone believes that kind of crap anymore!

You must be under 30 or a paid up Nazi!

I truly wish I was under 30. A paid up Nazi? Why are you resorting to name calling? We have a difference of opinion, it's that simple. I see no reason for you to have a personal pop at me simply because of my personal opinion. I have no problem debating our opinions, but if you want to resort to personal insults...well that's a bad daft don't you think?

Maybe a bit extreme but I shouldn't really be contributing to this thread. Even the thought of her gives me shivers. So I apologise for that.

But, have a look at Chile's record under Gen Pinochet when you have time. That's the sort of model she was looking at, economically, for this country. People starved in the streets for the pursuit of the 'free economy'.

Anyway, what size jackboots do you take?

Aaaahhhh and ATD play's his Joker

Sorry I'm buggered there I'm afraid, I have no idea why she allowed Pinochet to live in this country after his own people got rid of him because the man was the essence of evil!!

Right!! I'm off to find a Joker of my own







Oh Size neuf

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Maybe a bit extreme but I shouldn't really be contributing to this thread. Even the thought of her gives me shivers. So I apologise for that.

But it's exactly this sort of thing that I'm looking to have explained - I need people like you to give this thread any purpose. Don't have a go at each other, but hit Thatcher with all you've got.

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

Maybe a bit extreme but I shouldn't really be contributing to this thread. Even the thought of her gives me shivers. So I apologise for that.

But it's exactly this sort of thing that I'm looking to have explained - I need people like you to give this thread any purpose. Don't have a go at each other, but hit Thatcher with all you've got.

Why do you honestly believe Argentina invaded the Falklands? Because they believe it was their Island? Or the fact that it is rich in Uranium? There was a lot more to that war (she choose conflict, I choose war)

[Montreal Wanderer]

I think any comparison with Pinochet's Chile is simply foolish rhetoric. Economic restructuring will always cause some pain but if it leads to a greater prosperity then the short-term pain may be worth it. In Canada we went through much the same sort of thing at the same time. As trade barriers broke down we could not compete with countries that had cheap labour supplies. We lost, for example, our furniture making and clothes manufacturing industries and we knew it would happen. We started putting monies into hi-tech industries, as well as R & D. We are now world leaders in some of these hi-tech industries, e.g. CAE is second to none in building aircraft simulators, but the process was painful and different kinds of skilled artisans could not be retrained to be skilled technicians. Some families took significant dips in income which took ten years to make up (and some no doubt never recovered). Yet, we have a greater prosperity now - five years ago our dollar was worth US $0.67 and now it is over US$0.90. It seems to me, from the outside, that Thatcher put the UK on a new track from which it has now emerged stronger. I also seriously doubt she would kow-tow to Ronald Reagan - the impression we got was the reverse. I disagreed with her over South Africa, but very little else. Of course, one has to take the long term view.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Aaaahhhh and ATD play's his Joker

Sorry I'm buggered there I'm afraid, I have no idea why she allowed Pinochet to live in this country after his own people got rid of him because the man was the essence of evil!!

What the bollocks are you talking about Soldier - Pinochet was in this country was 10 years post-Thatcher, wasn't he?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

It seems to me, from the outside, that Thatcher put the UK on a new track from which it has now emerged stronger. I also seriously doubt she would kow-tow to Ronald Reagan - the impression we got was the reverse. I disagreed with her over South Africa, but very little else. Of course, one has to take the long term view.

It's interesting that you should make those comments 'from the outside', because that's exactly my situation really - just temporally rather than geographically.

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

Aaaahhhh and ATD play's his Joker

Sorry I'm buggered there I'm afraid, I have no idea why she allowed Pinochet to live in this country after his own people got rid of him because the man was the essence of evil!!

What the bollocks are you talking about Soldier - Pinochet was in this country was 10 years post-Thatcher, wasn't he?

The trouble with the written word is the fact that you can't express sarcasism!!

Who was it that let him into the country being my point!

As for the Comparison between Pinochet and Thatcher, I don't remember anyone in this country being murdered or tortured for being politically adverse!!

[Montreal Wanderer]

Who was it that let him into the country being my point!

Thatcher stood by Pinochet (a despicable man) when Spain (a communist lawyer) was trying to extradite him. I think you will find this was payback for unpublicised support during the Falklands War (which I don't think had much to do with uranium). Galtieri needed a foreign war to take an increasingly unhappy population's minds off domestic problems. It was a toss up between getting the Malvinas back and fighting Chile over the Beagle channel. The Falklands looked easier, although perhaps that was a misjudgment. Pinochet knew this and he turned a blind eye to SAS intrusions through Chile to get at the southern airfield where the Super Etenard bombers were kept. The Argentinians had to hide the bombers in the jungle every night after one successful raid.

[americantrotter]

Oddly enough you guys seem to have the reverse deal that we have here. The conservatives usually take advantage of good times and promise tax cuts while restricting the rights of the individual. Then a Liberal will take over and stabilize things, go to far in the name of the left wing,all the while correcting the economy. The cycle then repeats itself. You seem to need Torries to bring prosperity for Labor to take advantage of.

Or I could be talking complete bollox. (My family never liked Thatcher, therefor I never did growing up. Add in the fact that my sensibilities run the other way anyways......it's a no-brainer for me)

[ratbert]

My two'pennorth, and not quite as anti-Maggie as you'd think:

The Good:

Sorted out the more extremist elements of trade unionism. Unelected chancers were taking the piss in the 1970s (of both Tory and Labour governments) and looking to make a name for themselves as government topplers rather than looking after the welfare of their members. Something needed to be done, and her laws, whilst a tad extreme, largely worked. Her leadership qualities I can't really question, if she was a little too obstinate at times.

The Middling:

The economy. Yes, it got back on track, and some of the wealth creation was beneficial, but there were two serious recessions - the first was probably inevitable but the second was fuelled by a great deal of complacency. Then there's the see-saw between low inflation and high unemployment, with the former preferred to people's lives. And VAT rocketing.

The Ugly:

Her personal coldness and arrogance, and lack of compassion and understanding. At least that's how it came across. The wholesale destruction of manufacturing and resulting job losses. You can argue about the necessity of it or not, but there's little doubt the 'one fell swoop' approach alienated many honest working people. The all-for-me-now culture of selfishness that income tax cuts and personal wealth creation created. On the face of it a good thing, but it destroyed any sense of society, with no social responsibility towards those that couldn't help themselves - hence the rise in homelessness under her rule.

Overall, I didn't like her, don't like the legacy she's left - sadly there's still elements of her selfish society at work today, which Blair has done little to dispel. But that doesn't mean everything she did was bad.

And I'd argue she wasn't a Tory anyway, but an old-style liberal...

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

Who was it that let him into the country being my point!

Thatcher stood by Pinochet (a despicable man) when Spain (a communist lawyer) was trying to extradite him. I think you will find this was payback for unpublicised support during the Falklands War (which I don't think had much to do with uranium). Galtieri needed a foreign war to take an increasingly unhappy population's minds off domestic problems. It was a toss up between getting the Malvinas back and fighting Chile over the Beagle channel. The Falklands looked easier, although perhaps that was a misjudgment. Pinochet knew this and he turned a blind eye to SAS intrusions through Chile to get at the southern airfield where the Super Etenard bombers were kept. The Argentinians had to hide the bombers in the jungle every night after one successful raid.

Monty, the fact that the Falklands earth is rich in mineral is both public and common knowledge. Add to that, that British expats were resident to the Falklands was surely enough reason for a the decisions to be forced. Not to mention that the fact the Argentinean’s made such a public "fxck you were having it" (Sorry for my straight forwardness but that's who I am) It really made Thatcher's mind up for her. Her response?

"Mamm I'm sorry to inform you but we have lost the Falklands, the Argentineans have taken the Island"

Answer:

"Do not worry, I will deal with it"

The British Army was mobilised that very night.

Yes Uranium may have been buried deep under the Falkland soil, but I truly believe that, that was never the issue. An invader had taken an open and deliberate attempt to take that what was British.

The hasty and immediate response by Thatcher could only state one thing in my view.

An armed foreign invader had dared to step an British soil.

Screw the rich soil, screw chillie, screw politics. It was British soil End EX.

The Falklands were the easy option? I'm sorry Monty, you could not be more mistaken. We were unprepared and our intelligence was found lacking. The Argentineans had a huge strike of luck in the very first week. It was always going to be the case that we would have air superiority. That ended when an attack on one of our Destroyers went astray. The Agries instead hit a carrier hoarding eighteen Chinooks. No that may not have been an attacking plane, but what it meant was that our troop's on the ground were forced to hike to their designations. Not only that, they were cut of from supplies. Rations, clothing, ammunition all was lost in that one accidental hit that went wayward.

Yet throughout all this. after such unnecessary odds, those men gained their victory and retained the islands. This was after a very rare fxck up by The Regiment and sever lack of supplies. This was the army the Thatcher built. This was the World's greatest army.

My point in all this is that, this army has slowly dwindled, I deal with crying soldiers that have been disciplined. This is due to the changes you do not see under 'new labour'. As an old soldier I now find that I am forced to hold up the human rights of these civvies and Common wealth soldiers in green. Why? because I am forced to. We are not bullies, we simply want to train man worthy of being labelled the unique title of 'British Soldier' an honour long forgotten.

You think these CHAVS in uniform would ever sprint bayonet's fixed up the hill of Goose Green? Believe me when I say, we now need the Americans!!

For me that is a shameful admittance. I honestly feel a relic of an age past, as do most soldier of my era. I really do not concern myself with the domestics of Thatcher's reign, but by God what I would not give to have such an Iron lady at the helm once more!!