A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

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Harry Genshaw
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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:56 pm

Was so reminiscent of England today. We keep possession across the back. No movement in front so after 4 passes someone lumps it in the general direction of Madine and we lose possession.

There's going to be a gulf in class in most games this season I accept that. I do expect our midfield to work a lot harder at moving off the ball and into space. They were all far too pedestrian today
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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:07 pm

Reading about this game both here and elsewhere makes sad and sorry reading :(

Very surprised to read about how bad Beevers and Burke were. They were two I would have been the least worried about based on our season so far.

The problem with playing Cullen, Pratley and Karacan in a rigid three in the middle at home is that none of them instinctively want to defend the space in front of the back three. All three of them want to get on the ball and start attacks off. They are too alike. I feel this is covered up away from home when the onus is on the team to defend and we sit back and break attacks up as a collective. I think Derik needs to start, and Buckley instead of Pratley, so we have a better chance of linking up with the attack.

I am tempted to advocate for 4-2-3-1 now, but without Vela and Ameobi it is hard to imagine who would play in the three behind the striker? Morais, Buckley on the flanks, but can't think of anyone in the Vela role. Unless we sign a defensive midfielder, Derik would have to be in the two??

We have a lot of problems. At least Hull, who we play next, are in disarray, and then we have two weeks on the training pitch to change things and maybe get Ameobi back..

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by Peter Thompson » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:07 pm

Our midfield get a nose bleed going over the half way line....same with the mythical wing backs (who still play as fullbacks in an ultra defensive back 5)....so they are either really unfit and can't get forward because they are fcuked OR Parkinson tells them to play this way - in a similar way to Big Sam's I'll fine you if you shoot from outside the box - Parkinson must fine players for going over the half way line.

As was being discussed in previous threads a few weeks ago, the movement, pace & intent from our midfield & wingbacks going forward is non existent - we simply have no options (apart from the Madine hoof) going forwards.....at times we actually look like its a 8-2 formation because the gap between the 2 strikers and the rest of the team is so large....again this is Parkinson non attacking / haven't got a clue how to attack tactics

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:14 pm

We lack a defensive midfield player, an attacking central midfield type who scores goals and some pace out wide and up front.

Those are pretty major things to miss. A defensive midfield player the biggest miss. We are far too lightweight in midfield. Need a big presence in there. Someone who covers ground and gives us some athleticism. I like the look of Cullen but he isn't exactly commanding.

Up front we are too slow. Same out wide. No threat because we have no pace.

And then with Vela out we have no goal threat in midfield.

Looks a long hard season from here. Embargo is the major problem. 3 or 4 short still but can't sign anyone. Let alone any quality. Said it all along, you cannot survive in this league under an embargo. Every team you come up against will have more quality when you can only pay a pitiful £4500 a week. And ultimately it is that simple.

We've got some good lads, who try, but every single one of Derby's players is better than ours. Christ their bench would all be starting for us no questions asked. Very hard to make a go of much under those circumstances.

Only hope is Ken getting us out of embargo this week and bringing three or four quality players in. If that doesn't happen I'm already resigned to league one next season I'm afraid. I thought we could fight our way to safety. But first few games have shown just how wide the gap is.

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by Sweet » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:16 pm

Totally outclassed.

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by twilight » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:49 pm

That was as bad a game as the last Championship fiasco. Outclassed all over the pitch. We were lucky to get away with just 2 goals down, how they didn't score another 4 by half time I will never know. But we cannot keep gifting teams 1 or 2 goal start, the match was finished by 13 minutes in. I know we're in for a long hard season, but why make it easy for teams?

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by Prufrock » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:23 pm

Sounds pretty shocking.

My worry is that, with a league as clearly divided as this (moneyed v poor), it's all going to come down to games v the rest of the bottom 8-10. Feel there will a lot of that competition coming away with a happy point and v few leaving with nothing.
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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by Nicko58 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:27 pm

Peter Thompson wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:07 pm
Our midfield get a nose bleed going over the half way line....same with the mythical wing backs (who still play as fullbacks in an ultra defensive back 5)....so they are either really unfit and can't get forward because they are fcuked OR Parkinson tells them to play this way - in a similar way to Big Sam's I'll fine you if you shoot from outside the box - Parkinson must fine players for going over the half way line.

As was being discussed in previous threads a few weeks ago, the movement, pace & intent from our midfield & wingbacks going forward is non existent - we simply have no options (apart from the Madine hoof) going forwards.....at times we actually look like its a 8-2 formation because the gap between the 2 strikers and the rest of the team is so large....again this is Parkinson non attacking / haven't got a clue how to attack tactics

It's neither. Derby County were just very good at closing us down and preventing us from moving forward.

Perhaps the main problem that we have is that we still have no one, bar Morais on the outside, who is capable of beating a man. And if we have no one who can beat a man, we're going to struggle to drag the opposing players out of position, and in turn we're going to struggle to create the space from which we can generate goalscoring chances. Josh Cullen is a tidy player, and if we had someone similar to, say, Mark Davies, he'd work very well with him but today he rarely played the ball forward, not because he was instructed not to, but because there was never any option in front of him. That's why we're so relaint on lumping it forward to Madine, who put in a decent showing, or forcing it out wide to Morais in the hope that he can get it in the box. We have two real threats, and it's those two. We generally got away with that in the third tier but we're going to get found out by a lot of teams at this level.

If I were Parky, as soon as Ameobi is back fit I'd set us up in a 4-2-3-1, with probably Ameobi, Buckley and Morais behind Madine. At least that way we'd have a chance of creating something substantial.
Last edited by Nicko58 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by Nicko58 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:27 pm

Having said all that, there's really no excuse for so many of our lads getting knocked off the ball so easily.
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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by twilight » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:51 pm

I don't know about getting knocked off the ball, we were nowhere near it, we were chasing shadows most of the 1st half

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by Nicko58 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:57 pm

twilight wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:51 pm
I don't know about getting knocked off the ball, we were nowhere near it, we were chasing shadows most of the 1st half

We were knocked off the ball a few times, and we also let them glide past us with without much difficulty.
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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by twilight » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:46 pm

I can clearly remember the "gliding past us" bit. We were just outplayed by a team that were organised and could pass and move the ball at ease...."moving" being the apt word. It was literally men against boys and we have a lot to learn

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:08 pm

We haven't even had that newly promoted team bounce where you win the odd game still on a high from last season. The gap between the leagues looks massive. Beevers, Pratley, Karacan, Taylor, Le Fondre...all look good league 1 rather than bottom half championship players. Not good.

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by Nicko58 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:09 pm

Watching the highlights program tonight, I noticed that in his post-match interview Gary Rowett referred to them knowing that our formation would leave spaces that they could exploit. No doubt he's referring to the space behind our wing-backs and the space between our midfield three and our forwards. I really do think that we need to think about playing something other than 3-5-2, or at least avoid playing it come what may.
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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:29 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:08 pm
We haven't even had that newly promoted team bounce where you win the odd game still on a high from last season. The gap between the leagues looks massive. Beevers, Pratley, Karacan, Taylor, Le Fondre...all look good league 1 rather than bottom half championship players. Not good.
Yep. Truth is we were just that little bit better than the majority of league one. But a fair bit worse than most in this league sadly.

As someone commented to me on the way out, our best 11 might just survive. Might. But take some out with injuries and we are well short. Wouldn't be such an issue if Ken and Deano hadn't left the club in such a mess embargo wise.

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:38 pm

We can't and shouldn't complain too much just yet. Watching the other Championship games for the weeks so far it's pretty obvious that we aren't treating this league with the respect it deserves. That isn't meant we're not trying, but the standard is second league after the Premiership and that's not a duffer league is it? We're really struggling because of injuries and this daft embargo situation plus our lack of money and trying to compete with bigger squads of more expensive and quality players. I'm pretty sure Parky is aware of where our shortcomings are and that he'll look for ways of tightening up, but he's on a bit of a mission impossible right now and we'll just have to keep battling. We're good enough to survive for this season and that's the aim isn't it? One win and our first three points will make a fair bit of difference and making sure we beat those around us is paramount.
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by Peter Thompson » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:45 pm

Nicko58 wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:09 pm
Watching the highlights program tonight, I noticed that in his post-match interview Gary Rowett referred to them knowing that our formation would leave spaces that they could exploit. No doubt he's referring to the space behind our wing-backs and the space between our midfield three and our forwards. I really do think that we need to think about playing something other than 3-5-2, or at least avoid playing it come what may.
So Parkinson was tactically out thought then....what a surprise !, I've said on numerous previous occasions we are so predictable & easy to play against. I wonder what goes on in training - perhaps PP has the team just practice launching 60 / 70 yard balls to Madine, because they sure don't practice passing & moving and getting forward to support the front two.

Parkinson has only one way of playing and that's hoof ball to Madine, he hasn't a clue how to play any other way.

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by Peter Thompson » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:57 pm

Nicko58 wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:27 pm
Peter Thompson wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:07 pm
Our midfield get a nose bleed going over the half way line....same with the mythical wing backs (who still play as fullbacks in an ultra defensive back 5)....so they are either really unfit and can't get forward because they are fcuked OR Parkinson tells them to play this way - in a similar way to Big Sam's I'll fine you if you shoot from outside the box - Parkinson must fine players for going over the half way line.

As was being discussed in previous threads a few weeks ago, the movement, pace & intent from our midfield & wingbacks going forward is non existent - we simply have no options (apart from the Madine hoof) going forwards.....at times we actually look like its a 8-2 formation because the gap between the 2 strikers and the rest of the team is so large....again this is Parkinson non attacking / haven't got a clue how to attack tactics

It's neither. Derby County were just very good at closing us down and preventing us from moving forward.

Perhaps the main problem that we have is that we still have no one, bar Morais on the outside, who is capable of beating a man. And if we have no one who can beat a man, we're going to struggle to drag the opposing players out of position, and in turn we're going to struggle to create the space from which we can generate goalscoring chances. Josh Cullen is a tidy player, and if we had someone similar to, say, Mark Davies, he'd work very well with him but today he rarely played the ball forward, not because he was instructed not to, but because there was never any option in front of him. That's why we're so relaint on lumping it forward to Madine, who put in a decent showing, or forcing it out wide to Morais in the hope that he can get it in the box. We have two real threats, and it's those two. We generally got away with that in the third tier but we're going to get found out by a lot of teams at this level.

If I were Parky, as soon as Ameobi is back fit I'd set us up in a 4-2-3-1, with probably Ameobi, Buckley and Morais behind Madine. At least that way we'd have a chance of creating something substantial.
Where as we didn't even attempt to close them down and just watched and let them walk straight through us.

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:06 pm

Peter Thompson wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:45 pm

So Parkinson was tactically out thought then....what a surprise !, I've said on numerous previous occasions we are so predictable & easy to play against. I wonder what goes on in training - perhaps PP has the team just practice launching 60 / 70 yard balls to Madine, because they sure don't practice passing & moving and getting forward to support the front two. Parkinson has only one way of playing and that's hoof ball to Madine, he hasn't a clue how to play any other way.
You know, P.T, I'll just love to hear you stand up in front of Phil Parkinson and the team and repeat that. I'm sure Ken would sack him on the spot and appoint you as manager. :wink:
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: A visit from the Pride without Prejudice....

Post by Peter Thompson » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:10 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:06 pm
Peter Thompson wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:45 pm

So Parkinson was tactically out thought then....what a surprise !, I've said on numerous previous occasions we are so predictable & easy to play against. I wonder what goes on in training - perhaps PP has the team just practice launching 60 / 70 yard balls to Madine, because they sure don't practice passing & moving and getting forward to support the front two. Parkinson has only one way of playing and that's hoof ball to Madine, he hasn't a clue how to play any other way.
You know, P.T, I'll just love to hear you stand up in front of Phil Parkinson and the team and repeat that. I'm sure Ken would sack him on the spot and appoint you as manager. :wink:
Let's hope so TD - I'd gladly stand up & tell them to their face, believe me....

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