If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

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If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:13 am

Encouraging noises in this mornings BEN article, namely that we seem to know what our problems are 1.) We are not putting enough tackles in, and so are too easy to play against, and 2.) We are not creating chances from open play, especially at home.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/15 ... lesbrough/

So how will we line up in our next game against Gary Monk's big spenders? How will we do?

I am thinking:

Howard; Little, Wheater, Beevers, Taylor; Derik, Cullen, Pratley, Armstrong, Ameobi; Madine. 4-5-1. Alnwick, Burke, Robinson, Noone, Morais, ALF, Wilbraham on the bench.

Karacan and Buckley sound like they are struggling to be fit. Burke and Dervite could both play and have as much justification as Beevers for a starting spot. I think given our defensive record thus far there is justification for bringing Wheater back. We are desperately short in central midifield, and Derik is sadly the nearest thing we have to a physical presence in there. Switching to 4-5-1 is going to make things difficult for ALF and Morais, two favourites from last season, but we clearly don't have the players for 3-5-2 at this level.

They have spent over £40m. It is going to be tough, but from what I saw from their televised game v Sheff Utd attacking, creative midfield isn't their strength, and they are quite physical with big strikers, which might play more to our strengths. A flukey 1-0 to us...

Discuss...

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:46 pm

Morais in for Armstrong. Morais must have created 90% of our last 6 month worth of goals and must start. Armstrong will add some pace from the bench. I'd also question whether Little is strong enough defensively for a back four right back. He certainly didn't look like much of a right back against Wednesday. Great going forwards but did less defending than even Morais did from RWB. I'd think Darby might be best in a game like this as a traditional right back.

Lets face it, its another game where before we even start a point looks a good result. We need more in there to help grind something out.

I think Ameobi if fit will be a good outlet with Morais on the other side offering the supply. Whether having two right sided players leaves it balanced is anyone's guess but hey. Also very little fire power in that side - will be relying on set pieces.

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by LeverEnd » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:01 pm

Could Alf play the Vela role in a 4-2-3-1 until he returns ? He's intelligent and hardworking and most likely to finish the scraps from our necessarily blunt force attack. Morais and Noone/Ameobi either side of him. 2 of Karacan/pratley/cullen shielding.
On Little, maybe he'd be more defensive in a 4, I'd say least try him because I've heard nothing good about Darby so far.
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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:30 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:13 am

Karacan and Buckley sound like they are struggling to be fit. Burke and Dervite could both play and have as much justification as Beevers for a starting spot.
Except that Beevers played really well for us last season in defence and also scored 7 (?) goals. Dervite is improved but neither have anything that warrants droppping Beevers.
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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:18 pm

I did wonder whether we'd stretch into a fourth postless day on this board, a radio silence which might speak volumes.

The BN noises are from Iles, who (like us) has watched a lot of football but isn't in control. However, as I posted last week, PP doesn't seem as blind to the problems as some of the more hysterical reactions might suggest. He’s already on the record as saying that they’d planned to play two formations this season, and the other is surely the 4-2-3-1 we played last autumn – you wouldn’t plan a diamond then sign four wingers. PP hinted that they iced it due to (un)availability of players, but with Ameobi back he now has the pull factor as well as the push away from the back three that just isn’t working.

That said, he is by nature more the type who’ll start with a more cautious formation/selection then ratchet up as necessary. Not that he won’t be asking for a fast start, just from a team set up to win its individual battles rather than blind the opponents with threats from every position.

With that in mind, it wouldn’t surprise me if Armstrong is brought off the bench and he opts to start with Morais instead, even if this means Ameobi (or Morais) plays on the less-favoured left wing (the wingers could, and arguably should, swap a lot during the game).

The question then is who starts at 10, in the absence of Vela (“around four weeks away from a return to training”, according to another BN piece). We haven’t got a natural replacement, although Ameobi and Craig Noone have played there; PP could ask Arma or ALF to drop off Madine, digging back to become the fifth midfielder when we’re out of possession, but then once we get the ball you run the risk of them being out of their most dangerous position (the box for ALF, the last defender’s shoulder for Arma).

I’ve been wondering since pre-season whether PP has been lining up Ameobi as an option for the 10. He may not be as effective in the more congested central areas but he could drop into either inside-forward channel, and he’s also another tall target: even if he’s not the best header, he’d worry the centre-backs into aerial challenges, perhaps slightly deeper/wider than their own comfort zone.

That would also open up another wing slot for Noone or Buckley, although the latter hasn’t trained since Hull and the former might be short of the match sharpness demanded by PP via Allamby. Still, we might get half an hour from one or the other, unless Noone can back up his claim that “Training-wise I’ll be absolutely fine because I’m quite fit. But [the international break] gives me a week to sharpen up and then I’ll be ready to go.”

Then there were 2, doing a rather important job in the 4-2-3-1. Some still think we might sign Spearing, now that Ken's in kontrol and we can exit the embargo (right, Ken? Right?) but the wee Scouser ain’t here yet and Karacan, perhaps our least worst central midfielder, is still being poked and prodded by puzzled medics - although at least they’ve ruled out a fracture. Which leaves us perming a pair from Cullen, Derik and OhGodPratleyISuppose. Maybe, just maybe, the venerated captain might be more useful dedicating his energy to busily tidying up at the back rather than bumbling ineffectively in the vague direction of the opposition goal – but if it were me I’d still be picking Derik and Cullen, then immediately crossing my fingers so hard the blood wouldn’t reach my nails.

Some might say Derik’s a centre-back but we’ve got plenty of those, not all of whom might fit in a 4-2-3-1 (although I’m sure Tony Pulis would give it a go, and it doesn’t seem to do him much harm). Curiously, Beevers has looked shakier than Dervite, although he might be happier in a back four than a back three – like many a Big Man At The Back, he seems much less imposing once he’s outside his usual stomping ground. If Wheater is fit you’d imagine he’d be back in, which might not be the answer to everything but should provide some of the pointing-and-shouting that John McGinlay seems to think would help.

Which leaves Reece Burke as the odd manboy out, unless PP p-plays him at right-back, which would in turn be a bit of a kick in the swingers for the two actual right-backs he gave two-year contracts in summer. I do like Burke and would love to get his confident ball-playing into the team, although I’ve not yet given up on Mark Little in a decent system and I suppose it would be unfair to cast aside Stephen Darby after three games, none of them in his best position (he’s no wing-back and probably our sixth-best centre-back).

While we’re at it, I wouldn’t be utterly astonished if Parky drops Howard for Alnwick. Might not be completely fair on the Londoner but a new formation, an international break and a 4-0 arse-plating represent a hell of a chance to change.

So basically, given the question marks over fitness and form I reckon only Madine and Andy Taylor are guaranteed starts. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, and competition could inspire harder work, as could a new-old formation give that work better structure. That might not be enough against Boro, a team whose recent Premier League experience plus extremely heavy summer spending would have them in most people’s top eight – along with fellow early opponents Leeds, Derby, Wednesday and Hull, which is why I was so irked we only got one point from Millwall.

But then, in the seven days after Boro we face two expected middleweights who have started at pace – Sheffield United (5th) and Ipswich (2nd) – so when BWFCi says “before we even start a point looks a good result”, I see where he’s coming from but have to ask where our necessary 50 points are coming from? Who are you hoping we can beat?

Boro have played two away games and lost them both. They'll be nervous. In each loss, Darren Randolph only made one save: home and away, he’s averaged just 1.6 saves per game, the division’s third-worst (Howard is fifth on 1.8, Ipswich’s Bartosz Bialkowski is top with 5.0). It’s now over a year since they won away (LDLDDDDLLLDLLLDLLLLLL). We might not beat them, but we might do. COYWM.

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:19 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:01 pm
Could Alf play the Vela role in a 4-2-3-1 until he returns ? He's intelligent and hardworking and most likely to finish the scraps from our necessarily blunt force attack. Morais and Noone/Ameobi either side of him. 2 of Karacan/pratley/cullen shielding.
On Little, maybe he'd be more defensive in a 4, I'd say least try him because I've heard nothing good about Darby so far.
Not for me. ALF struggles to make any impact outside the box up front, let alone playing him deeper in midfield. Think they did it one pre-season game and ALF said it didn't really suit him, or words to that effect.

In a 4-5-1 ALF simply doesn't play. And frankly I'm ok with that.

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:22 pm

DSB - I concur that we need to win some of these home games to stay up. But there is a difference between need and can. A point against Millwall away for me is fine. We should have taken something against Leeds/Derby...even a point. And Brum sounds like the game we were the better side for (whereas Millwall more than edged that game) but came back with a solitary point.

Fact is, most teams in this division will see us as a great chance for 3 points. Teams like Boro will see 3 points against us as a MUST.

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:34 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:22 pm
DSB - I concur that we need to win some of these home games to stay up. But there is a difference between need and can. A point against Millwall away for me is fine. We should have taken something against Leeds/Derby...even a point. And Brum sounds like the game we were the better side for (whereas Millwall more than edged that game) but came back with a solitary point.

Fact is, most teams in this division will see us as a great chance for 3 points. Teams like Boro will see 3 points against us as a MUST.
What games do you think we can win?

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by LeverEnd » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:38 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:19 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:01 pm
Could Alf play the Vela role in a 4-2-3-1 until he returns ? He's intelligent and hardworking and most likely to finish the scraps from our necessarily blunt force attack. Morais and Noone/Ameobi either side of him. 2 of Karacan/pratley/cullen shielding.
On Little, maybe he'd be more defensive in a 4, I'd say least try him because I've heard nothing good about Darby so far.
Not for me. ALF struggles to make any impact outside the box up front, let alone playing him deeper in midfield. Think they did it one pre-season game and ALF said it didn't really suit him, or words to that effect.

In a 4-5-1 ALF simply doesn't play. And frankly I'm ok with that.
Haha! I thought you might say that after your 'waste of a shirt' comments of last season. In the absence of any obvious stand in for Vela, and that we need someone who can finish, I'd give it a go. Not that I'm saying that with any confidence of success, mind.
Oh, but surely just for one day, we could fight and we could win
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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by LeverEnd » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:41 pm

I'd go for the 4-2-3-1 also with Derik and pratley as the 2. Tallest dwarf time here, but I was appalled by Cullen at Hull and have seen Derik do ok there. Cullen will get his chance again, and pratley just for athleticism with no thought given to footballing skill.
Oh, but surely just for one day, we could fight and we could win
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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by boltonboris » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:08 pm

We're not tackling because we're not pressing. we're not pressing because there will be too much room to exploit behind the midfielders and full backs.

There will be too much space behind midfielders and full backs because of the system he's playing.
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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by Peter Thompson » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:38 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:08 pm
We're not tackling because we're not pressing. we're not pressing because there will be too much room to exploit behind the midfielders and full backs.

There will be too much space behind midfielders and full backs because of the system he's playing.
This....

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by Peter Thompson » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:42 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:34 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:22 pm
DSB - I concur that we need to win some of these home games to stay up. But there is a difference between need and can. A point against Millwall away for me is fine. We should have taken something against Leeds/Derby...even a point. And Brum sounds like the game we were the better side for (whereas Millwall more than edged that game) but came back with a solitary point.

Fact is, most teams in this division will see us as a great chance for 3 points. Teams like Boro will see 3 points against us as a MUST.
What games do you think we can win?
Until we get a gritty, hard working, tough tackling, ball winning, busy midfielder - I don't think we can win any, because our midfield is probably the worst in the league in terms of pressing, tackling, movement, pace & creativity.

Combine this with playing aimless hoof ball to Madine & playing non wing backs as wing backs - means that we are the easiest, most predictable team to play against tactically in the league.

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by DJBlu » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:36 pm

As a compromise the match threads can stop in here until the final whistle. They'll then be moved to the Match threads forum.

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by Peter Thompson » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:52 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:36 pm
As a compromise the match threads can stop in here until the final whistle. They'll then be moved to the Match threads forum.
That's fair enough - cheers....

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:02 pm

If he starts 3 at the back he wants his bumps feeling.

Alnwick
Darby/Little
Taylor
Wheater
Dervite (been better than Beevers)
Derik
Pratley
Morais
Ameobi
Noone
Madine

Would be my choice given what we have been told about who is fit.

I've also wondered if Burke might be handy as dwfensive mid, more robust than Derik. But fwiw I think Derik has earned a go there. Cullen is playing in azerbaijan tonight. Plus he has looked too lifhtweight and not what we need when I have seen / heard how he played.

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:21 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:02 pm
If he starts 3 at the back he wants his bumps feeling.

Alnwick
Darby/Little
Taylor
Wheater
Dervite (been better than Beevers)
Derik
Pratley
Morais
Ameobi
Noone
Madine

Would be my choice given what we have been told about who is fit.

I've also wondered if Burke might be handy as dwfensive mid, more robust than Derik. But fwiw I think Derik has earned a go there. Cullen is playing in azerbaijan tonight. Plus he has looked too lifhtweight and not what we need when I have seen / heard how he played.
Dervite in a back four? Not for me. Beevers and Wheater back together please.

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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by Prufrock » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:31 pm

Beavers looked ropey on the left of a three in league 1, no surprise he's struggling here against better more mobile forwards. Harsh to drop him from a 4 on that basis though. Wheevers Taylor and another (I'd go Burke but then I didn't sign Darby and Little)
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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:34 pm

It's just a question,but can Dervite not play in a sort of Ivan Campo role in front of the back four ?
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Re: If we can't find our tackle, we live like a Monk. Bolton v Boro 9/9/17.

Post by LeverEnd » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:10 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:34 pm
It's just a question,but can Dervite not play in a sort of Ivan Campo role in front of the back four ?
Wash thy mouth out! Like Ivan?!!!
(Or rinse your finger tips, to be anatomically correct. )
I can't see it. He can't pass. He's a big stopper. Derik lacks a bit of something but at least occasionally looks like a classy footballer.
Oh, but surely just for one day, we could fight and we could win
And if only for a little while, we could insist on the impossible...

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