[Motm Poll added] Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

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Who was Man of the Match??

Sammi Ameobi
5
25%
Gary Madine
7
35%
Ben Alnwick
2
10%
Karl Henry
3
15%
Mark Little
2
10%
Other
1
5%
 
Total votes: 20

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Re: Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:51 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:36 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:27 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:54 pm
My frustration is that he's running himself into the ground but we've no credible option to give him a rest in the last 20 minutes. That needs fixing in January.
This is very true - especially as we drift into three games a week territory. It's utterly unrealistic to expect him to be able to play like that for 90 minutes every game. I see we didn't have a single striker on the bench yesterday, unless 'Hall''s one - I've no idea who he is. What's happened to Wilbraham?

Thought Anthoneeeeeeee settled in well after a bit of a nervy start yesterday btw.
I've never understood this. (I'm not talking any individual player here). I just can't understand the concept that ninety minutes per day once, twice, or even three times a week, is any kind of barrier to a professional. There are people who run up mountains three or four times a week for fun, others that train for marathons on a longer basis per day than footballers put in per week. Not being able to perform for two ninety minute stints per week, every week, tells me you're unfit to play the game (as in unfit to be considered to be paid to play the game on a professional level, because being unfit per se seems to self defining).
There is an intensity that you just don't get in training or friendlies. It's that intensity that is the difference between being off the pace and on song. Maintaining that sort of intensity 3 times a week over a long period just isn't possible. The players are fit enough to play week in week out, but they won't reach peak intensity.

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Re: Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:52 pm

Bit surprised to not hear someone mention Vela. He seemed to be involved in things quite a lot via the commentary.
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Re: Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:53 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:59 pm
Reminder FWIW that the TW thread starter can add a poll.
Thanks for setting that up, Brizzle. Let's vote :)
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Re: Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:05 pm

palindromeofbolton wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:06 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:33 pm
Irksome that Burton won at Millwall
You could actually look at that as a positive result - at least at this stage of the season (and only coz we also got three points yesterday!) - as it drags Millwall back into the scrap. At 2.59pm yesterday there was a bit of a gap opening up between the bottom four and the rest. A draw would obviously have been ideal but I think I'd rather have a Burton win than a Millwall win. If Bolton and Sunderland both win midweek (and I don't fancy Hull winning, plus Reading have Wolves) then all of a sudden you've got 6/7 teams within three points of each other, which increases the chances of survival.
Yep, can’t argue with any of that mate (except “midweek”: next games are Preston-Bolton and Burton-Blades on Fri 17 Nov, with most other teams in action the next day. I’m all for dragging as many buggers as possible down into it. I’m slightly worried that Burton seem to get wins when they really need them, like those six-pointers; but if we were safe I’d much rather see Millwall drop than Burton.

One rung at a time I suppose, and I’d love us to rope in Burton ASAP.
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Re: Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:05 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:36 pm

I've never understood this. (I'm not talking any individual player here). I just can't understand the concept that ninety minutes per day once, twice, or even three times a week, is any kind of barrier to a professional.
If I was a freak who could fell run on the back of zero training miles, I guess I'd struggle to understand it too. :D
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Re: Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by Nicko58 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:22 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:49 am
One for you, D.S.B, : I have wondered quite a bit, just how many goals we have had scored against us in the last five minutes of play-time, or in extra time in any games? . My memory says it's quite a few over a period?

Back when Allardyce was in charge and we were playing in the Premier League for the first time under his management, we went through a period where we nearly always conceded right at the death, often costing us points. This became such a common thing that the BN ran a story on it and calculated that if we’d just managed to hold out on each occasion, we’d have been comfortable in mid-table rather than dwelling in and around the relegation zone as we were.

There might well be parallels to be drawn with now regarding a newly-promoted team becoming overwhelmed by better players and caving in under the pressure late on.
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Re: Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by Nicko58 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:25 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:52 pm
Bit surprised to not hear someone mention Vela. He seemed to be involved in things quite a lot via the commentary.

It isn't the largest of sample sizes, and I appreciate that there are obviously other factors that come into this, but nevertheless...

With Vela: P6 W2 D3 L1

Without Vela: P10 W0 D1 L9
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Re: Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:05 pm

Nicko58 wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:22 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:49 am
One for you, D.S.B, : I have wondered quite a bit, just how many goals we have had scored against us in the last five minutes of play-time, or in extra time in any games? . My memory says it's quite a few over a period?

Back when Allardyce was in charge and we were playing in the Premier League for the first time under his management, we went through a period where we nearly always conceded right at the death, often costing us points. This became such a common thing that the BN ran a story on it and calculated that if we’d just managed to hold out on each occasion, we’d have been comfortable in mid-table rather than dwelling in and around the relegation zone as we were.

There might well be parallels to be drawn with now regarding a newly-promoted team becoming overwhelmed by better players and caving in under the pressure late on.
I think that's what my memory must have been tugging at. Thanks Nicko58.
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Re: Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:48 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:36 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:27 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:54 pm
My frustration is that he's running himself into the ground but we've no credible option to give him a rest in the last 20 minutes. That needs fixing in January.
This is very true - especially as we drift into three games a week territory. It's utterly unrealistic to expect him to be able to play like that for 90 minutes every game. I see we didn't have a single striker on the bench yesterday, unless 'Hall''s one - I've no idea who he is. What's happened to Wilbraham?

Thought Anthoneeeeeeee settled in well after a bit of a nervy start yesterday btw.
I've never understood this. (I'm not talking any individual player here). I just can't understand the concept that ninety minutes per day once, twice, or even three times a week, is any kind of barrier to a professional. There are people who run up mountains three or four times a week for fun, others that train for marathons on a longer basis per day than footballers put in per week. Not being able to perform for two ninety minute stints per week, every week, tells me you're unfit to play the game (as in unfit to be considered to be paid to play the game on a professional level, because being unfit per se seems to self defining).
It's about the intensity of it. And it's also relative. If you're running more than every other player and doing it 90mins every game the opposition may have players more rested...and therefore fresher.

Allardyce analysed these things in depth and was convinced 3 games in 7 days was very hard without being able to comfortably rotate a minimum of 6 players.

It wouldn't matter so much if all players on all teams did the same. But nowadays bigger squads mean many are rested. If you're running a small squad and generally the ball a lot...that gets tough.

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Re: Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by TonyDomingos » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:01 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:40 pm
I vote for Alnwick coz I thought he saved our arse twice.

Aye, but he’s a lazy fck who can’t manage to run up and down the pitch for 90 mins three times a week. :wink:
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Re: Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:09 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:48 pm
Allardyce analysed these things in depth and was convinced 3 games in 7 days was very hard without being able to comfortably rotate a minimum of 6 players.
Indeed he did. Take Boxing Day 2003, when we went 2-0 down at Anfield just after half-time. Allardyce immediately prepared a triple substitution, which happened in the 51st minute: Okocha, Djorkaeff and Campo were withdrawn for Ba, Pedersen and Stelios. His reasoning was that we were hosting Leicester two days later in a much more winnable game.

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Re: [Motm Poll added] Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by boltonboris » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:42 pm

I'd have to say Madine for MOM, because goal and assist

Bit he's one of a good number who played very well.

Jittery half hour, then I thought we looked comfortable until the last 5 or so.

Ameobi has sparked a massive difference, but we knew he would and he should have had a penalty too, by the looks if it
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Re: [Motm Poll added] Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:52 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:42 pm
I'd have to say Madine for MOM, because goal and assist

Bit he's one of a good number who played very well.

Jittery half hour, then I thought we looked comfortable until the last 5 or so.

Ameobi has sparked a massive difference, but we knew he would and he should have had a penalty too, by the looks if it
Ameobi, Vela and Henry to be fair.

Ameobi for me the biggest difference because as I've said all along he's a genuine outlet. One that was desperately needed. Give him the ball and he'll get you up the pitch...often more than that.

Of course Henry has been crucial too in terms of making us look like we have a midfield again.

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Re: [Motm Poll added] Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:30 pm

Interesting perspective from our opponent's reporter here:

http://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-ci ... -1-5266503
It was only the opening game of the season and perhaps a tad harsh they had to play it out on live TV – but Bolton looked relegation fodder from the outset.

That it took them so long to record their first win wasn’t a surprise – but their improvement since come the weekend certainly was.

Having finally been allowed to sign some free agents, Bolton have recruited pretty wisely and clearly given themselves a chance – none shining more than Sammy Ameobi who to be honest, City couldn’t handle all afternoon. He certainly made Marco Stiepermann look like a forward filling in at left-back – and uncomfortably at that.

Unbeaten in five with a second win in the bag, I noted a Bolton colleague’s match report included a lot of references to “for once” and “first time”. Just the sort of thing that frustrates from a City perspective.

So let’s just hope it wasn’t solely City’s doing that the Trotters trotted on for once.

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Re: [Motm Poll added] Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:40 pm

You have to be entirely honest, on another day Norwich could have won that game. They had a glorious chance early on that Jerome wasted. Had they scored then...entirely different game.

The one on one second half that bounced back of their player...again had that gone in I fear we'd have blown the 3 points.

As well as being better, things are going for us a little. We deserve it, but equally we're not blowing teams away and still look short of say winning 3 in a row.

Thats not to be negative. We simply have to keep chipping away and picking up points. Still a tough ask, but at least we're off the bottom and fighting.

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Re: [Motm Poll added] Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:57 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:40 pm
You have to be entirely honest, on another day Norwich could have won that game. They had a glorious chance early on that Jerome wasted. Had they scored then...entirely different game.
I'm being entirely honest: It wasn't another day and they didn't. We won the game. That's honest.
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Re: [Motm Poll added] Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:08 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:40 pm
You have to be entirely honest, on another day Norwich could have won that game. They had a glorious chance early on that Jerome wasted. Had they scored then...entirely different game.

The one on one second half that bounced back of their player...again had that gone in I fear we'd have blown the 3 points.

As well as being better, things are going for us a little. We deserve it, but equally we're not blowing teams away and still look short of say winning 3 in a row.

Thats not to be negative. We simply have to keep chipping away and picking up points. Still a tough ask, but at least we're off the bottom and fighting.
Yes for the first 25 minutes it looked like a L2 side playing a Championship side. Where we have improved a lot, to an extent I personally didn't think possible is the potency we have going forward. Once you can scare teams with your attacks psychologically it is easier to turn games around. Ameobi is already playing at a level above where I thought he would get to, Armstrong looks a real threat, Vela is a menace whose hard work keeps the opposition unsettled, and those three are making Madine, who has been at a good level all season, even better. Then Henry and the Henry-inspired Pratley have created a central midfield. In previous games Norwich would just have dominated the whole game, and we would have gone even more downhill once they inevitably scored.

To be fair I rarely see anybody looking much better than anyone else in this league. If anyone goes on a run it is almost always down to winning a number of close matches. The standard of this division now is amazing, it is really entertaining and the vast majority of the teams have lots of quality. Lets hope we can stay clear of injuries and play our part in it.

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Re: [Motm Poll added] Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:26 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:57 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:40 pm
You have to be entirely honest, on another day Norwich could have won that game. They had a glorious chance early on that Jerome wasted. Had they scored then...entirely different game.
I'm being entirely honest: It wasn't another day and they didn't. We won the game. That's honest.
I suppose my point was there will be games we play just as well in but lose (fine lines) and people will be all doom and gloom on the performance, team and manager.

Opening part of the season seemed like teams took their first and second chances against us and we were struggling before the games even got going. Norwich could have done that Saturday but didn't...

Without doubt we are better, but the bad luck (rub of the green, call it what you will) we had earlier in the season has changed round a little.....

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Re: [Motm Poll added] Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:27 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:08 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:40 pm
You have to be entirely honest, on another day Norwich could have won that game. They had a glorious chance early on that Jerome wasted. Had they scored then...entirely different game.

The one on one second half that bounced back of their player...again had that gone in I fear we'd have blown the 3 points.

As well as being better, things are going for us a little. We deserve it, but equally we're not blowing teams away and still look short of say winning 3 in a row.

Thats not to be negative. We simply have to keep chipping away and picking up points. Still a tough ask, but at least we're off the bottom and fighting.
Yes for the first 25 minutes it looked like a L2 side playing a Championship side. Where we have improved a lot, to an extent I personally didn't think possible is the potency we have going forward. Once you can scare teams with your attacks psychologically it is easier to turn games around. Ameobi is already playing at a level above where I thought he would get to, Armstrong looks a real threat, Vela is a menace whose hard work keeps the opposition unsettled, and those three are making Madine, who has been at a good level all season, even better. Then Henry and the Henry-inspired Pratley have created a central midfield. In previous games Norwich would just have dominated the whole game, and we would have gone even more downhill once they inevitably scored.

To be fair I rarely see anybody looking much better than anyone else in this league. If anyone goes on a run it is almost always down to winning a number of close matches. The standard of this division now is amazing, it is really entertaining and the vast majority of the teams have lots of quality. Lets hope we can stay clear of injuries and play our part in it.
On another slightly tangential note, the money we got for Clough, at this stage looks a very good deal on our part.

Looks like Ameobi was far more crucial to the side last season than Zach who get get any games for Forest....

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Re: [Motm Poll added] Does Parky have the Balls to find a winning recipe? Bolton v Norwich 4/11/217

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:49 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:27 pm
On another slightly tangential note, the money we got for Clough, at this stage looks a very good deal on our part.
I'd carry him home from Nottingham on my back. And I speak as someone who has suffered a collapsed intervertebral disc. :D

(In reality, I'd offer him a lift in the Zafira and bore him daft with memories of games before he was born)

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