Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

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Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:12 pm

Yep. Another one of those Absolute Must Wins. And, like I was against Barnsley, I'm fairly relaxed about this one, I think we'll get the three points. I'll predict a healthy 3-niller.
I'm hoping Fulham can totally stuff Sunderland, and for the longer term rewards I reckon a nice little draw for Birmingham v QPR will do us some good too.
Feeling quite confident and chirpy (at least until the Xmas period matches anyway...) :pissed: COYWM.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:27 pm

We have to hope those below do worse the us. Barnsley are now four points above us so we can't let that get any better and we havee to hope they lose a few.. We really need to climb, and do it now.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:36 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:27 pm
We have to hope those below do worse the us. Barnsley are now four points above us so we can't let that get any better and we havee to hope they lose a few.. We really need to climb, and do it now.
I'm wanting Barnsley to lose, no doubting that, but I think Birmingham to draw is a better outcome than Birmingham to win. I say that in the expectation that we get the three points: if QPR just get the one point, then we can start reeling them in too. The more teams involved in the relegation fight the better the chances are that we can escape the drop.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:26 pm

This might be trickier than most people think. Burton have had some impressive away results such as 0-0 draws at Norwich, QPR and Bristol City, 1-1 at Brentford, a 1-0 win at Millwall, and they only lost 1-0 to a late goal at Derby in their last away game. They can do what we can't, keep a clean sheet in a difficult away game. They are on a terrible run at the moment however, so lets hope low confidence reduces their resolve. 2-1 to us. COYW.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by boltonboris » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Can't make this, so if anybody can get to Walkden before Friday night (or works in Manchester) to collect them, you can have my tickets

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:16 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:44 pm
Can't make this, so if anybody can get to Walkden before Friday night (or works in Manchester) to collect them, you can have my tickets

2 Adults and 1 u12
Very generous, I was thinking of going as the missus is away this weekend and would have snapped your hand off (especially as I can't make the two games after that, being stranded at the in-law for Christmas), but discovered this morning I'm rota'd for stand-by this weekend, and I've already bartered up a plethora of swapsies. So sadly cannot take up your offer.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:30 am

"who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter". I'll excuse you the missing question mark. Splendid stuff. Hopefully The Brewers travel as poorly as Marston's.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:55 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:30 am
"who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter". I'll excuse you the missing question mark. Splendid stuff. Hopefully The Brewers travel as poorly as Marston's.
Just for you Bruce, I'll stick a question mark in there.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:24 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:36 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:27 pm
We have to hope those below do worse the us. Barnsley are now four points above us so we can't let that get any better and we havee to hope they lose a few.. We really need to climb, and do it now.
I'm wanting Barnsley to lose, no doubting that, but I think Birmingham to draw is a better outcome than Birmingham to win. I say that in the expectation that we get the three points: if QPR just get the one point, then we can start reeling them in too. The more teams involved in the relegation fight the better the chances are that we can escape the drop.
This. We want it to be 3 from 5 or 6, not 3 from 4.

Birmingham always find a way to escape (or we give them one).

And Sunderland, you have to expect will pick up at some point under Coleman.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:58 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:24 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:36 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:27 pm
We have to hope those below do worse the us. Barnsley are now four points above us so we can't let that get any better and we havee to hope they lose a few.. We really need to climb, and do it now.
I'm wanting Barnsley to lose, no doubting that, but I think Birmingham to draw is a better outcome than Birmingham to win. I say that in the expectation that we get the three points: if QPR just get the one point, then we can start reeling them in too. The more teams involved in the relegation fight the better the chances are that we can escape the drop.
This. We want it to be 3 from 5 or 6, not 3 from 4.

Birmingham always find a way to escape (or we give them one).

And Sunderland, you have to expect will pick up at some point under Coleman.
A Gobshite rang in to GMR the other week claiming that there isn't such a thing as 'mini-leagues' or 'leagues within the league'. Yes, Pal, because how Villa get on at Wolves is critical to us. :roll:
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:27 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:24 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:36 pm
I'm wanting Barnsley to lose, no doubting that, but I think Birmingham to draw is a better outcome than Birmingham to win. I say that in the expectation that we get the three points: if QPR just get the one point, then we can start reeling them in too. The more teams involved in the relegation fight the better the chances are that we can escape the drop.
This. We want it to be 3 from 5 or 6, not 3 from 4.

Birmingham always find a way to escape (or we give them one).

And Sunderland, you have to expect will pick up at some point under Coleman.
Agree with the first point, but not necessarily the other two.

Birmingham have been dogshit under Cotterill – three goals in ten games dogshit – and there's a rumour that despite the new ownership they can't afford to off another gaffer.

Sunderland are a carnage club who could chew up most managers, and I'm not convinced about Coleman as a club manager. Sacked at Fulham; resigned at Real Sociedad after missing a press conference and claiming that his washing machine had flooded his flat (he later admitted he'd been on the lash the night before); sacked by Coventry after their lowest finish in 45 years.

Yes, Wales, but international management is an entirely different proposition – and one could argue that, following intense pressure after becoming the first Wales manager in history to lose all his first five games, he was somewhat fortunate to stumble upon a formation that precisely suited what might be among the principality's best-ever crop of players: Bale and Ramsey up the sexy end, Joes Allen and Ledley in midfield, Ashley Williams in a back three, Chris Gunter and Ben Davies wide. Now he's got to make a silk purse out of Callum McManaman, Lee Cattermole, Didier Ndong and a 36-year-old John O'Shea, with a club up for sale and unwilling to spend. If he achieves it, hats off – and the draw at Wolves was a worry, although it may be a blip rather than a turned corner - but Sunderland are a basket case and if I were a betting man, I wouldn't be staking much on him and, notably, them.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:45 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:27 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:24 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:36 pm
I'm wanting Barnsley to lose, no doubting that, but I think Birmingham to draw is a better outcome than Birmingham to win. I say that in the expectation that we get the three points: if QPR just get the one point, then we can start reeling them in too. The more teams involved in the relegation fight the better the chances are that we can escape the drop.
This. We want it to be 3 from 5 or 6, not 3 from 4.

Birmingham always find a way to escape (or we give them one).

And Sunderland, you have to expect will pick up at some point under Coleman.
Agree with the first point, but not necessarily the other two.

Birmingham have been dogshit under Cotterill – three goals in ten games dogshit – and there's a rumour that despite the new ownership they can't afford to off another gaffer.

Sunderland are a carnage club who could chew up most managers, and I'm not convinced about Coleman as a club manager. Sacked at Fulham; resigned at Real Sociedad after missing a press conference and claiming that his washing machine had flooded his flat (he later admitted he'd been on the lash the night before); sacked by Coventry after their lowest finish in 45 years.

Yes, Wales, but international management is an entirely different proposition – and one could argue that, following intense pressure after becoming the first Wales manager in history to lose all his first five games, he was somewhat fortunate to stumble upon a formation that precisely suited what might be among the principality's best-ever crop of players: Bale and Ramsey up the sexy end, Joes Allen and Ledley in midfield, Ashley Williams in a back three, Chris Gunter and Ben Davies wide. Now he's got to make a silk purse out of Callum McManaman, Lee Cattermole, Didier Ndong and a 36-year-old John O'Shea, with a club up for sale and unwilling to spend. If he achieves it, hats off – and the draw at Wolves was a worry, although it may be a blip rather than a turned corner - but Sunderland are a basket case and if I were a betting man, I wouldn't be staking much on him and, notably, them.
Are Sunderland unwilling to spend though, DSB?
Here's Mr Ellis Short in his own words (admittedly from last season)
“The assertion that I have been unwilling to spend money to fulfil the ambitions of the club and its fans is completely wrong. Every penny that comes from TV money and other commercial activities is spent on operating the club – that is, buying players, wages, and other associated costs. I have never taken money out of the club. In fact, I have funded significant shortfalls each and every season.
The amount that I fund, every season, exceeds the collective total amount funded by every owner the club has ever had since the club was formed in 1879. I have done this willingly because I want us to be more than a club that simply exists in the top flight. Negligible owner-funding during the Premier League era resulted in Sunderland not being in the top flight for 15 of the 22 years. Since I have been involved, the good news is that my investment has kept us in the Premier League for nine consecutive seasons. The bad news is, for that amount of money spent, we should be better than we are and no-one knows that more than me. Has the money been spent effectively? No – that much is clear and ultimately that is my fault, but it is not a result of a lack of ambition or commitment.”
He doesn't particularly sound like a man who won't splash out this January, especially as he wants to recapitalise some of his dosh from a sale, and he knows the club will be worth more if it doesn't drop down another division.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:06 pm

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:13 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:06 pm
Image
'Kin'ell - an ashtray, there's a blast from the stone age :D

(Magee & Marshall, they were way before my time - closed in 1970 apparently. I bet Tango drank some of their stuff.)
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:52 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:13 pm
(Magee & Marshall, they were way before my time - closed in 1970 apparently. I bet Tango drank some of their stuff.)
I think that their brewery was where the Octagon car park is now, but I could be wrong.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:44 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:27 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:24 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:36 pm
I'm wanting Barnsley to lose, no doubting that, but I think Birmingham to draw is a better outcome than Birmingham to win. I say that in the expectation that we get the three points: if QPR just get the one point, then we can start reeling them in too. The more teams involved in the relegation fight the better the chances are that we can escape the drop.
This. We want it to be 3 from 5 or 6, not 3 from 4.

Birmingham always find a way to escape (or we give them one).

And Sunderland, you have to expect will pick up at some point under Coleman.
Agree with the first point, but not necessarily the other two.

Birmingham have been dogshit under Cotterill – three goals in ten games dogshit – and there's a rumour that despite the new ownership they can't afford to off another gaffer.

Sunderland are a carnage club who could chew up most managers, and I'm not convinced about Coleman as a club manager. Sacked at Fulham; resigned at Real Sociedad after missing a press conference and claiming that his washing machine had flooded his flat (he later admitted he'd been on the lash the night before); sacked by Coventry after their lowest finish in 45 years.

Yes, Wales, but international management is an entirely different proposition – and one could argue that, following intense pressure after becoming the first Wales manager in history to lose all his first five games, he was somewhat fortunate to stumble upon a formation that precisely suited what might be among the principality's best-ever crop of players: Bale and Ramsey up the sexy end, Joes Allen and Ledley in midfield, Ashley Williams in a back three, Chris Gunter and Ben Davies wide. Now he's got to make a silk purse out of Callum McManaman, Lee Cattermole, Didier Ndong and a 36-year-old John O'Shea, with a club up for sale and unwilling to spend. If he achieves it, hats off – and the draw at Wolves was a worry, although it may be a blip rather than a turned corner - but Sunderland are a basket case and if I were a betting man, I wouldn't be staking much on him and, notably, them.
Sunderland do have good players though. Grabban has scored twenty goals for Bournemouth in this league and is doing it again now. N'Dong cost £13.6m just over a year ago, and looks a good player to me, at least at this level. Oviedo and McGeady aren't bottom of Championship players. Kone looked ok in the Premiership though he seems to want out asap. Rodwell was thought of as a top6 Prem midfielder 3 years ago. It does seem to be an environment there that brings the very worst out of players, hence where they are, but I think if they get a home win I would expect them to get more wins and move up the table. They have four home games before the end of January; Fulham, Birmingham, Barnsley and Hull. If they don't break their home hoodoo in those then they might well be in trouble. They have already failed to beat us, QPR and Millwall at home.

Barnsley and Birmingham are the two worst teams I have seen this season in the flesh, way worse than us imho, and along with Burton represent our best route to 21st. QPR and Millwall are definitely vulnerable too and don't have a lot of quality in their squads.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:52 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:52 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:13 pm
(Magee & Marshall, they were way before my time - closed in 1970 apparently. I bet Tango drank some of their stuff.)
I think that their brewery was where the Octagon car park is now, but I could be wrong.
You're not wrong Bruce, that's more or less where it was, Ashburner Street. As for drinking, Magee Marshall ( before they became Greenhall Whitley) was the finest pint of best mild in the business. My local was the Lamb on Halliwell, a confirmed Magee hostelry. :D
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:52 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:45 pm
Are Sunderland unwilling to spend though, DSB?
They need to sell to buy, according to the local paper this week, with the news that Wolves might nick their top scorer, Bournemouth loanee Lewis Grabban:

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/fo ... n-14029250
...there is nothing the Wearsiders can do about the situation. They did not pay a loan fee for Grabban, which allowed Bournemouth to insist on the right to recall the player in the window. And, unless they can offload players, they do not have the funds to themselves buy Grabban next month.
Elsewhere:
• The Sun: "Sunderland would let [Lamine] Kone go cheaply to get him off their payroll",
• Sunderland Echo: "It would be a major blow to Sunderland if Grabban’s loan was to finish early and the cash-strapped Black Cats would struggle to match the financial clout of their Championship rivals in trying to sign him on a permanent basis"
• Sunderland Echo: "Coleman has lined up some targets for the January window but admits that moving players on will be key if he is to make any permanent additions. He said: 'In terms of the January transfer market, we’ve got targets. Will there be a transfer kitty? Maybe not, unless we lose a player, sell a player or two, or even if someone goes out on loan somewhere else. We need to add to what we’ve got, lose one or two maybe. Clearly we’ve got to do something, it’s obvious we need to do something, whether it is getting players back fit or getting that quality from outside. Otherwise, we’ll be in the same position we’ve been in for too long. As a team, we need to be more dynamic. Maybe we can change that [in January], maybe we can’t. Whatever we’ve got we’ve got – we have to get the best out of that. Any team is looking at the window trying to better their squad. Wolves will be exactly the same, even if the starting position is different. You’re always looking to strengthen and that’s no different for us.'"

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter. H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:53 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:44 pm
Sunderland do have good players though. Grabban has scored twenty goals for Bournemouth in this league and is doing it again now. N'Dong cost £13.6m just over a year ago, and looks a good player to me, at least at this level. Oviedo and McGeady aren't bottom of Championship players. Kone looked ok in the Premiership though he seems to want out asap. Rodwell was thought of as a top6 Prem midfielder 3 years ago. It does seem to be an environment there that brings the very worst out of players, hence where they are, but I think if they get a home win I would expect them to get more wins and move up the table. They have four home games before the end of January; Fulham, Birmingham, Barnsley and Hull. If they don't break their home hoodoo in those then they might well be in trouble. They have already failed to beat us, QPR and Millwall at home.

Barnsley and Birmingham are the two worst teams I have seen this season in the flesh, way worse than us imho, and along with Burton represent our best route to 21st. QPR and Millwall are definitely vulnerable too and don't have a lot of quality in their squads.
I hear you, and I agree they're underachieving, but if they were that good they wouldn't have been an absolute flaming bag of shit for more than a year now. I've nothing against the club but I hope they stay that way a while yet. :D

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:49 pm

We need to approach this as playing Burtoncelona. We can't even think analysis, league positions, banana skins or anything else. Just get out there and win any which way and stop the gap widening. Painting portraits of the opposition means nothing. Play football and win.....
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