Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:40 am

£10 down rather than £3,000 up. A miserable 'performance'. But who cares, I'm quite over the moon this morning!
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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by Bruno3 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:52 am

Chuffed with the result and those in the other games but we were awful - don't think we would be able to pass the ball from one end of the pitch to the other even if the other team stood still. Alnwick and Karacan best candidates for MOM. Referee absolutely clueless. Sunderland huffed and puffed but can't finish and look seriously doomed. In all honesty if we play like that in the remaining matches so are we.

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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:55 am

Couldn't care less about performances. Sounds like we dug out the biggest win of the season.

I think to stay up this is what we'll need to do.

Those who were there, listening to the commentary it sounds like the 3-4-3/5-4-1 system was overrun in midfield, which was my fear. Was that what happened?

Anyone who thinks go a goal up and sit deep is a deliberate "tactic" is nuts. Its just what teams do for the most part. We sadly don't really have a reliable outlet so it means we do struggle in those scenarios.

I still maintain we need a striker.

Also, how on earth did ALF then Karacan not manage to bloody score those chances?

EDIT: Also the 11 we started with, is probably the weakest championship line up we've ever fielded. Actually no probably about it, definitely.

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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:56 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:40 am
£10 down rather than £3,000 up. A miserable 'performance'. But who cares, I'm quite over the moon this morning!
That's almost the reverse of your bitcoin investment! :wink:

Huge sense of relief this morning. Alnwicks wonderful late save that ensured we didn't regret Alf and Jems late misses. :pray:

Agree with Bristol Wanderer. Sunderland are gone now for me
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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:04 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:56 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:40 am
£10 down rather than £3,000 up. A miserable 'performance'. But who cares, I'm quite over the moon this morning!
That's almost the reverse of your bitcoin investment! :wink:

Huge sense of relief this morning. Alnwicks wonderful late save that ensured we didn't regret Alf and Jems late misses. :pray:

Agree with Bristol Wanderer. Sunderland are gone now for me
Yep, never ever take any financial advice from me :wink:
I too concur that Sunderland are doomed. I think Hull might join the race to the bottom.
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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:09 am

Sunderland aren't "gone" but its hard to make a case that they can win 7 out of their remaining 13 games.

4 wins and a few draws for us should be enough.

On the positive side we've got players coming back in fresh like Karacan, Taylor, Pratley when fit, Clough, Walker, ALF - none of these have played much football recently so should have legs for the end of the season run in. The only way we can win games is to outfight teams so we'll need plenty of energy.

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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by dave the minion » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:22 am

Highlights didn't paint the same picture as the Sky pundit's commentary - he implied they were absolutely all over us and it was complete one-way traffic from them? From the highlights seems like we had as many chances as they did, and better ones too.
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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:38 am

dave the minion wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:22 am
Highlights didn't paint the same picture as the Sky pundit's commentary - he implied they were absolutely all over us and it was complete one-way traffic from them? From the highlights seems like we had as many chances as they did, and better ones too.
They were all over us. They played a high back line that we should have been able to exploit with Sammis pace but apart from the odd brief opening, nobody seemed able to keep the ball and then play in a decent pass.

For 80 minutes they walked slowly up the pitch passing it between themselves before the move broke down. We'd then give it them straight back, usually via the hapless Beevers (what's happened to him?)

Our two second half chances came when they were throwing everyone bar the keeper up
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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:48 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:38 am
dave the minion wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:22 am
Highlights didn't paint the same picture as the Sky pundit's commentary - he implied they were absolutely all over us and it was complete one-way traffic from them? From the highlights seems like we had as many chances as they did, and better ones too.
They were all over us. They played a high back line that we should have been able to exploit with Sammis pace but apart from the odd brief opening, nobody seemed able to keep the ball and then play in a decent pass.

For 80 minutes they walked slowly up the pitch passing it between themselves before the move broke down. We'd then give it them straight back, usually via the hapless Beevers (what's happened to him?)

Our two second half chances came when they were throwing everyone bar the keeper up
His what now? He's many things is Sammi. But quick isn't one of them.

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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 am

He's no slouch and if he can't beat John O'Shea in a straight race we've had it!
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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by Prufrock » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:33 am

He is obviously, definitely quick.

Not scorch the grass, speed of light, Madine quick, but he's not slow.
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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:00 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:33 am
He is obviously, definitely quick.

Not scorch the grass, speed of light, Madine quick, but he's not slow.
:D

Very funny. He's not quick IMHO.

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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:10 pm

A few, "No shxt Sherlocks'" to consider, even accepting talk is cheap:

It should be (is) very obvious that you can't play attack (them) v defence (us) all and every game and expect to win them. If we just looked at everybody we play and realise they "all" push up and pen us in our own half every game and we're the least attacking side in the division, we might possibly be the oppressors in an odd few games at least. I'm not big on football stats at best, preferring fight, faith, hope and no charity instead, but possession figures are a reality and can't be denied, and ours are grim game after game. All the more amazing when you watch our training clips of pass amd move football (lots) that seems restricted to such and rarely happen at games. Set pieces are a fact of life, but we give away far more of them than we get, and the Sammi, breakaway and score type goals, are due to sheer individual talent rather than teamwork. (Just how many worked goals have we scored this season?). Alfie, (my dog, not the player, that is) knows that "midfield" is a swear word on matchdays/nights and usually stays in the lounge at such times. We defend well (mainly), although a couple of cock-ups sounded like we almost gifted them goals last night, but we're whacking balls into nowhere land far too much. We have tired players, that's a fact due to our limited squad, bookings and injuries, but we're "Alamo and Rourke's Drift" types rather than "Charge of the Light Brigade and Welliongton at Waterloo" warriors. Vela and Robinson are big minuses, but we should be capable of playing football without either..

Okay....that's it. ae:) ae:) ........................................................................ :wink:
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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:14 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:10 pm
A few, "No shxt Sherlocks'" to consider, even accepting talk is cheap:

It should be (is) very obvious that you can't play attack (them) v defence (us) all and every game and expect to win them. If we just looked at everybody we play and realise they "all" push up and pen us in our own half every game and we're the least attacking side in the division, we might possibly be the oppressors in an odd few games at least. I'm not big on football stats at best, preferring fight, faith, hope and no charity instead, but possession figures are a reality and can't be denied, and ours are grim game after game. All the more amazing when you watch our training clips of pass amd move football (lots) that seems restricted to such and rarely happen at games. Set pieces are a fact of life, but we give away far more of them than we get, and the Sammi, breakaway and score type goals, are due to sheer individual talent rather than teamwork. (Just how many worked goals have we scored this season?). Alfie, (my dog, not the player, that is) knows that "midfield" is a swear word on matchdays/nights and usually stays in the lounge at such times. We defend well (mainly), although a couple of cock-ups sounded like we almost gifted them goals last night, but we're whacking balls into nowhere land far too much. We have tired players, that's a fact due to our limited squad, bookings and injuries, but we're "Alamo and Rourke's Drift" types rather than "Charge of the Light Brigade and Welliongton at Waterloo" warriors. Vela and Robinson are big minuses, but we should be capable of playing football without either..

Okay....that's it. ae:) ae:) ........................................................................ :wink:
1) We have a slow backline. If they "push up" and our midfield is overrun we'll be murdered with any pace.
2) The reason we struggle is our midfield is without doubt one of the worst in the division. Sides boss us in midfield.
3) Sitting deep is fine, and a necessity for us. But we lack real outlets, so get pinned back in our own half and don't have a reliable way out.
4) A proper striker who isn't picking up his pension who can actually hold the ball would help massively.

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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:45 pm

We were overrun in midfield last night due, imo, to a couple of factors.

Wilbraham won a couple of early balls, was then clattered a few times which the hopeless ref ignored, & then appeared to pretty much give up, so nothing stuck.

Clough and Sammi (but less so) appeared to have no idea where to go when we lost possession and instead of dropping deep and helping the midfield were just spectators. This led to Karacan and Henry charging around having to cover more ground and being rushed when they were in possession.

Our midfield is limited, but it should be no more limited than several others in this division. To me it's about the team shape being better and strikers/wingers/attacking midfielder's all knowing their responsibilities when we lose the ball.

Watching a duffer like Lee Cattermole strolling around the park with all the time in the world picking out passes like Beckenbauer, should tell us something ain't right
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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:50 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:14 pm

4) A proper striker who isn't picking up his pension who can actually hold the ball would help massively.
If Gary Madine hasn't scored before season end, we might be able to buy him back cheap.... :|
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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:55 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:50 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:14 pm

4) A proper striker who isn't picking up his pension who can actually hold the ball would help massively.
If Gary Madine hasn't scored before season end, we might be able to buy him back cheap.... :|
Judging by last night, Canon Slade alumnus Ashley Fletcher won't be playing for Boro next term – and he's contracted there until summer 2021. Apparently we did ask after him on Deadline Night but he was already pen-in-hand at Sunderland.

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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by irie Cee Bee » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:02 pm

We wont stay in the Division by outplaying anyone. We just do not have the ball handlers nor the quality outside of Ameobi and possibly Clough to do that. We will survive by being resilient, and I am seeing plenty of that. Player rotation will keep us fresh for the run in.

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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:03 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:45 pm
We were overrun in midfield last night due, imo, to a couple of factors.

Wilbraham won a couple of early balls, was then clattered a few times which the hopeless ref ignored, & then appeared to pretty much give up, so nothing stuck.

Clough and Sammi (but less so) appeared to have no idea where to go when we lost possession and instead of dropping deep and helping the midfield were just spectators. This led to Karacan and Henry charging around having to cover more ground and being rushed when they were in possession.

Our midfield is limited, but it should be no more limited than several others in this division. To me it's about the team shape being better and strikers/wingers/attacking midfielder's all knowing their responsibilities when we lose the ball.

Watching a duffer like Lee Cattermole strolling around the park with all the time in the world picking out passes like Beckenbauer, should tell us something ain't right
He's better than anyone we've got, I'd have him in our side in a heartbeat.

Our midfield is definitively our weak area. It has been for a long time and continually goes unaddressed. Sounds like Karacan had a good game last night though and if he finds some form he'll add something extra in there.

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Re: Bottom feeders: wounded Wanderers v sinking Sunderland 20/2/18 8pm

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:09 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:55 am

Those who were there, listening to the commentary it sounds like the 3-4-3/5-4-1 system was overrun in midfield, which was my fear. Was that what happened?
We did start with 3-4-3 and were completely dominated from around the 20th minute to around the 60th minute. ALF for Wilbraham improved things slightly, as did Derik for Clough which saw us go 3-5-2 with three midfielders. From the 60th minute till the 80th minute we got more of a foothold in the game. Then the last 10 minutes and injury time it was just attack against defence. I wouldn't say the formation caused us to be overrun as much as we didn't have the quality to keep the ball. This is our issue, we don't have players capable of passing the ball accurately on a consistent basis. Cattermole looked way better than any of our midfield and he has been getting a lot of stick recently from their fans.
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:55 am
EDIT: Also the 11 we started with, is probably the weakest championship line up we've ever fielded. Actually no probably about it, definitely.
I think the September teams with Cullen, Karacan and Morais in midfield, and raw players like Armstrong , Burke and Robinson were weaker. Apart from Wilbraham who despite lots of Championship experience is a long way past his best, and Morais all that team are experienced Championship players.

I was interested to see how much we would miss Vela. His chasing and running always feels like something you only realise how important it is when it isn't there. However, I think based on recent form, in this formation Karacan might be an improvement.

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