I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

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Re: I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

Post by Prufrock » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:56 am

I'd go with one of each. Taylor at LB, experience, solid, defensively sound, and Little on the other side to get around the outside of Ameobi. Little is decent defensively where as young Jedi is... not so much.

Can see an argument for Robinson on the wing to Bernard Mendy it mind, given noone else has impressed there.
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Re: I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:20 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:42 am
The argument against that is our only chance is probably a clean sheet. And picking the team most likely to deliver that is key. I'd play Robinson ahead of Taylor. We desperately need some pace going forwards.
We seem to be in vociferous agreement on playing Jedi, if for different reasons. If I were going for a clean sheet I'd play Taylor, but I'd say we're far more likely to win 2-1 than 1-0.

It's worth a quick look at Burton's home record.
• They have 14pts from 22 games.
• They have kept just 3 clean sheets, ie have conceded 19 times out of 22 (87%).
• They have failed to score themselves on 10 occasions (45% - joint-highest in the division).
• They've conceded 1.95 goals per home game, and 77% of them have had more than 1.5 goals.
• They've only twice lost 1-0 at home (to Cardiff and Millwall) but have lost and conceded 3+ seven times (including to Barnsley, Reading, Hull and QPR).
• They've scored “three or four” at home twice in 43 attempts - and in one of those, they also conceded five to lose.

Looked at dispassionately, this is a very winnable game. Also looked at dispassionately, Barnsley (last ten games: one win, 7pts) aren't exactly nailed-on to beat a Brentford (last ten: five wins, 18pts) who need to win to get in the play-offs.

Of course it massively depends how well we play, but that's more of a worry to me than Burton suddenly being Brazil.

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Re: I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:21 am

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:56 am
I'd go with one of each. Taylor at LB, experience, solid, defensively sound, and Little on the other side to get around the outside of Ameobi. Little is decent defensively where as young Jedi is... not so much.
I can see that, but Jedi has phenomenal recovery speed, which might be useful. It feels like it might be a game of who can counter-attack the least ineptly.

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Re: I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

Post by truewhite15 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:25 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:30 am
truewhite15 wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:00 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:06 pm
the most worrying thing is Parky's quote that "I think we have been punished by the way we set up. We had some decent moments but Wolves are a team who’ll punish you. Look at the first half, there weren’t many moments where we lost concentration, but the two we did, we got done."

If that's him thinking we should play a flat back four with stay-at-home full-backs at Burton, well that's the lack of courage that could take us down. Wolves were always going to "punish". They're a better team than Burton – 60 points better. We need that Barnsley second-half attacking ability, and it won't come from Andy Taylor, bless him.
I wouldn't say we played with stay-at-home full backs yesterday. In fact, in the first half (when things were going reasonably well) we looked curiously fluid. Flanagan and Robinson had been tasked with man-marking their two wide men, following them pretty much everywhere, which meant that Morais and Buckley were more often than not to be found in the traditional full back role monitoring the Wolves wing backs.
Cheers. I agree with much of your post. Just for the record, though, I wasn't saying we played with cautious full-backs against Wolves; I was saying, probably unclearly, something close to quite the opposite. I'll have another go and hopefully make more sense this time.

Seems to me that if we play a back three, we'll concede 2+ per game. If we play a 4-2-3-1 with a solid, unwavering back four including full-backs who stay at home and keep it tight, we might manage a clean sheet or just one concession, but we will rarely achieve the necessary penetration up the other end - because 40% of our outfielders are table-footballing on the halfway line, with two limited central midfielders sat in front of them, meaning that our attacking unit is constantly outnumbered.

Football is very commonly about overloads, and after the break at Barnsley it's the first time in ages I've seen us overload the opposition. This wasn't done through Cruyffian genius from players or manager, but simply by encouraging the full-backs forward to overlap (or cut inside) the wingers. Basically he untethered his full-backs to add to attacks, and we looked about fifteen times likelier to score than we had all season. (Barnsley were also poor, but so are Burton.)

What I'm saying is that the template set at Barnsley is the only way I can see us surviving, bar a pair of extremely fortunate against-the-odds wins dug out by set-pieces or flukes or something. So when we had to play Wolves, what worried me more than the almost inevitable defeat (and indeed goal difference punishment) was that any form of attacking full-back play would be punished then banished as Not Worth It, the baby thrown out with the bathwater because it didn't work against the division's best side, even though it had allowed us to dominate against relegation rivals – like the ones we're playing this weekend. Hence my worry over Parky's quotes.

Parky's reputation as a cautious manager isn't entirely undeserved. Although he is more willing to change than his louder critics assume, he will often revert to a safety-first approach. I hope to God that he doesn't do so this weekend. I'm already worried about the 2pm team alert saying he's chosen Taylor – no bad defender, but no threat whatsoever - over Robinson. We can win, and we arguably must win, and the best way to do that is by untethering his full-backs – whatever happened against Wolves.
Ah, gotcha. I agree entirely!

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Re: I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:26 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:20 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:42 am
The argument against that is our only chance is probably a clean sheet. And picking the team most likely to deliver that is key. I'd play Robinson ahead of Taylor. We desperately need some pace going forwards.
We seem to be in vociferous agreement on playing Jedi, if for different reasons. If I were going for a clean sheet I'd play Taylor, but I'd say we're far more likely to win 2-1 than 1-0.

It's worth a quick look at Burton's home record.
• They have 14pts from 22 games.
• They have kept just 3 clean sheets, ie have conceded 19 times out of 22 (87%).
• They have failed to score themselves on 10 occasions (45% - joint-highest in the division).
• They've conceded 1.95 goals per home game, and 77% of them have had more than 1.5 goals.
• They've only twice lost 1-0 at home (to Cardiff and Millwall) but have lost and conceded 3+ seven times (including to Barnsley, Reading, Hull and QPR).
• They've scored “three or four” at home twice in 43 attempts - and in one of those, they also conceded five to lose.

Looked at dispassionately, this is a very winnable game. Also looked at dispassionately, Barnsley (last ten games: one win, 7pts) aren't exactly nailed-on to beat a Brentford (last ten: five wins, 18pts) who need to win to get in the play-offs.

Of course it massively depends how well we play, but that's more of a worry to me than Burton suddenly being Brazil.
I mean, Taylor at left back, Robinson, left wing.

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Re: I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:51 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:26 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:20 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:42 am
The argument against that is our only chance is probably a clean sheet. And picking the team most likely to deliver that is key. I'd play Robinson ahead of Taylor. We desperately need some pace going forwards.
We seem to be in vociferous agreement on playing Jedi, if for different reasons.
I mean, Taylor at left back, Robinson, left wing.
Ah I see! In that case we're in vociferous agreement on different positions. :D I'd have him at left-back behind Buckley, who at Barnsley finally looked like a player and linked well with Jedi: the speedy overlaps drew opponents away and allowed Buckley to put dangerous crosses in.

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Re: I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:54 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:51 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:26 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:20 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:42 am
The argument against that is our only chance is probably a clean sheet. And picking the team most likely to deliver that is key. I'd play Robinson ahead of Taylor. We desperately need some pace going forwards.
We seem to be in vociferous agreement on playing Jedi, if for different reasons.
I mean, Taylor at left back, Robinson, left wing.
Ah I see! In that case we're in vociferous agreement on different positions. :D I'd have him at left-back behind Buckley, who at Barnsley finally looked like a player and linked well with Jedi: the speedy overlaps drew opponents away and allowed Buckley to put dangerous crosses in.
Maybe. I don't rate Buckley at all and he was awful against Wolves.

Looks like he's lost that "yard of pace" or whatever nonsense expression you want for "he's as slow as a slug on syrup nowadays".

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Re: I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:22 pm

The last few games, if feels like the spirit has gone, and the players seem exhausted. Maybe it is a result of playing under severe pressure all season in a hard running, low quality style of play? Or perhaps having 5 games in 14 days after the final international break was too much for some of our players at this stage of the season? Has anything damaging happened behind the seasons re Ken and contracts? Parky also seems to have lost all notion of what our footballing identity is and what our best team and formation are. I can't for the life of me work out why he is playing Wheater and Beevers together against some of these teams who have quick and mobile forward players. Burke seemed to lose some form, but why has Dervite not played? He is better than both of them at this level imo. It all looks and feels desperate. I have no faith we can put in effective performances in our next two games. The only saving grace, might be a draw at Burton might be enough in itself to stay up.

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Re: I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

Post by twilight » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:23 pm

Everybody was awful against Wolves BWFCi. Robinson was cringeworthy BUT I would still play him against Burton, and where the hell is Mark Little? because I would play him on the right behind Ameobi, Robinson on the left but maybe behind Noone and not Buckley? I'm not a big fan of Buckley but that's just my opinion

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Re: I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:27 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:54 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:51 am
I'd have him at left-back behind Buckley, who at Barnsley finally looked like a player and linked well with Jedi: the speedy overlaps drew opponents away and allowed Buckley to put dangerous crosses in.
Maybe. I don't rate Buckley at all and he was awful against Wolves.

Looks like he's lost that "yard of pace" or whatever nonsense expression you want for "he's as slow as a slug on syrup nowadays".
Oh I can completely understand that – I have often wondered "What is a Buckley?", and he's not even close to being good enough to worry Wolves. Few of ours are. But they don't have to be: they have to be good enough to bother Burton. And at Barnsley, supported by an overlapping full-back, he carried genuine threat. He's no pace but against lesser defenders (confused by the run) he can drop a shoulder and dig out a cross with either foot – he almost set one up from the *right* wing within two minutes of the half starting.

Let's be perfectly clear boys and girls, Buckley might be the fourth-best winger at the club – Morais, Ameobi and arguably Noone are better, but they're all much happier on the right flank. It could be that Buckley's the best left-winger, certainly one I'd trust more than suddenly experimenting with Robinson in such a crucial game. I'd go 4-2-3-1, Morais on the right, Ameobi off ALF (as a semi-target but also able to drift wider into pockets and run at them), Buckley left. Robinson overlapping, and either Little or possibly Flanagan (slower but probably better than Little, especially defensively). As at Barnsley, if we really need it, drop Morais to RB and bring Noone on to ask yet more questions.

It's not perfect, but it might do for now.

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Re: I Wandered lonely as a cloud ..Whites v Wolves Sat 21st Apr. 3-0

Post by boltonboris » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:26 pm

We were always going to lose, but I didn't expect us to to lose with indiscipline, individual schoolboy errors, lack of heart and resignation
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