Today I'm angry about.....

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Bruce Rioja
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:44 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:58 pm

It isn't a question of legality either. It's just something that you shouldn't ever do at work and expect to keep your job.
Yes, yes, but you miss my broader question. Who decides and what are the legal parameters around internet porn?
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Harry Genshaw » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:00 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:44 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:58 pm

It isn't a question of legality either. It's just something that you shouldn't ever do at work and expect to keep your job.
Yes, yes, but you miss my broader question. Who decides and what are the legal parameters around internet porn?
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:58 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:56 pm
Right wing media agenda or not, the former bobbies actions don't sit well in all this. Keeping records after the event is all very well in case of future prosecution's but keep them in a secure area of the police station. Not in your back bedroom years after you've retired. I'd be surprised if that itself wasn't illegal
100% this ^

After recent in the news cases of police handling of evidence, ex coppers still holding notebooks etc. surely cannot be tolerated.

On the subject of the politician, he was a fool and quite frankly deserves being asked to resign, May should have actually sacked him but hey oh, I'd expect her to bottle out of taking strong action.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by jimbo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:41 pm

Hoboh's right. No one comes out of this story well. Green shouldn't have had that on his computer at work, while the police guys shouldn't have acted as they did. If the world becomes a place where the police can just release whatever confidential (and legal) stuff they want to the media then we're in a bad place.
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:57 pm

jimbo wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:41 pm
Hoboh's right. No one comes out of this story well. Green shouldn't have had that on his computer at work, while the police guys shouldn't have acted as they did. If the world becomes a place where the police can just release whatever confidential (and legal) stuff they want to the media then we're in a bad place.
Didn't you know "the public have a right to know" Jimbo? At least that's the punch line trotted out by every nosy hack reporter or photographer. Quite why I need to know about the numerous affairs, misbehavings and sexual preferences of folk I never met, and see pictures up women's skirts as they climb out of taxis, I haven't yet figured out. Could possibly be there's a "person" lurking up there I suppose. Maybe there's a poll I missed?
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:17 pm

So no-one has a clue as to where the line's drawn then? Thought so!
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:53 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:17 pm
So no-one has a clue as to where the line's drawn then? Thought so!
Excluding parliament as they seem to have their own made up rules amongst themselves and often held to lower standards than regular folk. It is up to individual companies, but generally the rule of thumb is that work It stuff is not for personal use and any use to do your shopping, emails or Facebook is a disciplinary offence. Most companies don't enforce their policies to the letter, but could probably screw over anyone in the company if they did. If your company has a policy folks read it and I'd be surprised if you're 100% honest with yourself if anyone would pass so to speak.

As for Green, well parliament is a joke and not fit for purpose and it doesn'tseem the police are much better.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Prufrock » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:54 am

I think Bruce's question was who decides what are the legal parameters about porn, ie what is illegal?

In which case, it's the government. A couple of years ago they passed some v weird laws regulating where exactly the boundaries lie on things like "water sports".

On Green, it seems quite clear to me but he and the police are in the wrong. They absolutely should not be keeping material for years for later use in what is clearly some sort of vendetta.

But...what we ignore what we know because we disapprove of how we know it? You absolutely cannot be downloading porn on work computers never mind watching it. Not having any specious arguments about him not technically having an employment contract. He serves at the pleasure of the crown, and has to abide by the ministerial code. I'm pretty sure work wanking is at odds with this.
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:49 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:44 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:58 pm

It isn't a question of legality either. It's just something that you shouldn't ever do at work and expect to keep your job.
Yes, yes, but you miss my broader question. Who decides and what are the legal parameters around internet porn?
The government decide and puts into law. As Pru says there was an update to this about a year ago that outlawed certain 'hardcore materials'. But essentially a lot of people wouldn't know what is legal and what isn't.

Obviously anything involving children is. And certain extreme things are too.

I suspect there isn't a nice government leaflet detailing what is and isn't legal though.

Should be noted that a lot of things are illegal to produce in the UK rather than say viewed.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:39 pm

You seem quite in the know there Insano... just saying like ;)

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Bijou Bob » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:25 pm

As I understand it, the cops have a 'public interest' defence as they were whistleblowing on a minister of the crown who had lied. Nice to see someone in Westminster get the bullet after years of cover ups.

One of my ex colleagues was in CID in the early 1970's. He received a formal complaint of indecent assault/rape against a very fat MP and drew his file from the intelligence office. He described it as being 4 inches thick with allegations, information and statements. His Superintendent called him in about an hour before he was due to arrest the MP. He was faced with 2 blokes he described as being either Special Branch or security services and was told to hand over his file, statements and his pocket book, all of which disappeared. He was told not to speak of the matter again as it was one of "National security". 2 years later, another allegation surfaced. He went to get the file, which he found had been signed out by a senior officer and "Lost". He was then told to drop the investigation or face the next ten years walking foot patrol in the city centre.

15 years later and coincidentally, an acquaintance was working as a social worker in Brighton. He had to organise temporary emergency care for young boys who were rescued from a 'Chicken ranch' at which above MP was found in bed with a minor. Result? "Not in the public interest to prosecute".

The Westminster elite have had protection from prosecution and special treatment for years and been watched over by senior Police officers (In my experience, often with Masonic connections) and the security services who saw their role as maintaining trust in democracy at any cost. Hopefully, Green is the start of more equitable treatment..........but I won't hold my breath.
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:34 pm

Two points.

The porn was on a computer in Green's office.

Nobody, not even those that have disclosed it, have yet claimed that Green himself either downloaded it or viewed it.

I'd be very circumspect in assigning that to specific individuals if I were you.

Porn+mp+biased party political politics = shark feeding frenzy.
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:55 pm

And to answer Bruce's question:
Pornography (imagery designed to sexually stimulate) is legal as long as those in it are aged 18 or over and consented to be in it, and does not contain anything that is is defined in the Sexual Offences Act 2003 as being extreme.
Extreme material is defined within the act as anything grossly offensive, disgusting, or otherwise of an offensive character.
Judges and juries decide what is pornographic and/or obscene. Judges and juries also decide what is extreme.
N.B. A judge reviewed the Material on Green's computer nine years ago and determined it to be legal. The police at the time did not contest that judgement.
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Bruce Rioja » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:34 pm

Thank you, Spotty. So the law's actually as wishy washy as I suspected. If in the Jury room half the jury consider something to be obscene and the other half not then we're no further forward.
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:37 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:34 pm
Thank you, Spotty. So the law's actually as wishy washy as I suspected. If in the Jury room half the jury consider something to be obscene and the other half not then we're no further forward.
Well, technically speaking, it would be up to the judge to decide if something was extreme (and therefore illegal) and then the jury would decide if someone was guilty or not guilty of possessing/distributing that illegal material. And more than half, at least ten of them must agree. So a little less than totally wishy washy, just not exactly crystal clear North Korea style absolutes.
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:48 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:34 pm
Two points.

The porn was on a computer in Green's office.

Nobody, not even those that have disclosed it, have yet claimed that Green himself either downloaded it or viewed it.

I'd be very circumspect in assigning that to specific individuals if I were you.

Porn+mp+biased party political politics = shark feeding frenzy.
I think there is enough evidence to suggest he was at the very least complicit. And even that is stretching it.

He was logged in at the time and sending personal emails from the computer at the same time the files were accessed.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:56 am

Bijou Bob wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:25 pm
As I understand it, the cops have a 'public interest' defence as they were whistleblowing on a minister of the crown who had lied. Nice to see someone in Westminster get the bullet after years of cover ups.

One of my ex colleagues was in CID in the early 1970's. He received a formal complaint of indecent assault/rape against a very fat MP and drew his file from the intelligence office. He described it as being 4 inches thick with allegations, information and statements. His Superintendent called him in about an hour before he was due to arrest the MP. He was faced with 2 blokes he described as being either Special Branch or security services and was told to hand over his file, statements and his pocket book, all of which disappeared. He was told not to speak of the matter again as it was one of "National security". 2 years later, another allegation surfaced. He went to get the file, which he found had been signed out by a senior officer and "Lost". He was then told to drop the investigation or face the next ten years walking foot patrol in the city centre.

15 years later and coincidentally, an acquaintance was working as a social worker in Brighton. He had to organise temporary emergency care for young boys who were rescued from a 'Chicken ranch' at which above MP was found in bed with a minor. Result? "Not in the public interest to prosecute".

The Westminster elite have had protection from prosecution and special treatment for years and been watched over by senior Police officers (In my experience, often with Masonic connections) and the security services who saw their role as maintaining trust in democracy at any cost. Hopefully, Green is the start of more equitable treatment..........but I won't hold my breath.
Understand what you are saying bob but surely the ex copper should not have been in possession of potential evidence? Ex being the main point in this case it begs the question just what other potential evidence does he have on anything else that may or may not prejudice future cases or enquiries.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Bijou Bob » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:13 pm

I suspect the cop in question had copies of material. Yes, that's probably a breach of data protection laws, but if I was investigating a senior politician, who I knew would have the full weight of the security services and some senior officers behind him, I'm damn sure I'd have copies too!

Have you forgotten about Westland helicopters? A senior cabinet minister was happy to let 2 innocent men go to gaol to protect his own skin, aided and abetted by the security services of the time. The full story behind that has never come out and I suspect it never will.

I'm conscious that I'm coming over a bit like a conspiracy theorist here, but I've seen a lot of dodgy stuff go on in past occupations and am aware of colleagues of mine who have seen far worse more recently.
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:29 am

'Sir' Prick Clegg!!!!

What a fcuking joke, traitorous, treacherous, slime ball has been politician a Sir?

Well fcuk off Sir. :twisted:

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:47 am

Hoboh wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:29 am
'Sir' Prick Clegg!!!!

What a fcuking joke, traitorous, treacherous, slime ball has been politician a Sir? Well fcuk off Sir. :twisted:
Just the system doing its job Hobes. Old boys and girls club is alive and well. Did you really expect otherwise? Oh, compliments of the season to you.. :D
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