Your England XI

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Re: Your England XI

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:18 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:55 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:21 pm

How much have you watched Sterling? He’s not a crosser.
As much as you have, and he's a professional footballer, part of a team and on a massive wage. If he can't put balls into the box as part of his contributions,, then get somebody out there who can.
I mean it’s well noted that end product and specifically crossing is not a part of Sterling’s repertoire really. His benefit is speed really and tight dribbling. And a bit like Bolton I’m not sure England’s plan is to put crosses in. Wide players are inverted so designed to cut inside. If anyone is putting crosses in more likely to be full backs. But given only really Kane in box that isn’t really the plan a.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:27 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:18 pm
And a bit like Bolton I’m not sure England’s plan is to put crosses in.
I think it is Bolton's plan to put crosses in, but with the likes of Isgrove twatting them into the knees of the first defender, we're absolutely dreadful at it.
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Re: Your England XI

Post by Prufrock » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:20 am

I still can't believe people think Sterling is there to "get at people". He's no better at that then he is at crossing.

He almost never beats anyone 1v1, he doesn't even try. He's genuinely one of the best in world football off the ball, but his first touch often let's him down. So he gets in a lot if you play that way, but he's at his absolute best not involved at all while it goes down the other side and then his acceleration and movement in the final third leads to a ream of goals where everyone thinks anyone could've scored that, but they couldn't.

That said, he's been dreadful for six months and if he's getting anywhere near this team it should be on the right. That he plays off the left which is both Foden (currently) and Grealish's best position is criminal.
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Re: Your England XI

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:06 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:40 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:13 pm
He's already comfortably past Shearer's returns, which give he's playing in a team that can't touch the 96 team, must be some going.

Still has a way to go to catch Lineker... :-)
In European championship games Shearer has 7 goals in 9 games. Kane has 0 in 6.

Shearer’s goal record in competitive fixtures is marginally better than Kanes and I think considering that covers the massive failed Graham Taylor period and then Hoddle and Keegan you can say that’s pretty impressive - he didn’t exactly get many chances in competitions beyond 96.

But in terms of leading the line Shearer was miles ahead. Not even Shearers biggest fan I can’t stand him but definitely as a comparison in their peak Id have wor Alan every time.

Not that Kane is really the issue - he would do better if we had a midfield. Interesting to hear Neville and Souness argue about the England team now with Neville suggesting the midfield is ok if we play like Liverpool and use the full backs as our attacking outlet but Souness arguing you cannot play how we are in midfield. I think Gary would have a point if we set up to get bodies in the box for the full backs to pick out. But I don’t see us overloading the box to do that and we don’t have a Salah.
I assumed the changes at FB were all about trying to overlap/get in behind. Clearly didn't happen. I'm happy you narrowed the Shearer/Kane search to "who scored most on a Tuesday" to prove a point! :-)

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Re: Your England XI

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:04 am

Southgate seems to be saying he will play Kane from the start vs the Czechs too. I'm all for playing a player through a bad patch, but if he is as as shattered as he looks that's surely a horrible decision. Feels like a manager taking account of media pressure and trying to back a player by picking him, even when it's not in the player's best interests.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:49 am

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:20 am
I still can't believe people think Sterling is there to "get at people". He's no better at that then he is at crossing.
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Re: Your England XI

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:23 am

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:20 am
I still can't believe people think Sterling is there to "get at people". He's no better at that then he is at crossing.

He almost never beats anyone 1v1, he doesn't even try. He's genuinely one of the best in world football off the ball, but his first touch often let's him down. So he gets in a lot if you play that way, but he's at his absolute best not involved at all while it goes down the other side and then his acceleration and movement in the final third leads to a ream of goals where everyone thinks anyone could've scored that, but they couldn't.

That said, he's been dreadful for six months and if he's getting anywhere near this team it should be on the right. That he plays off the left which is both Foden (currently) and Grealish's best position is criminal.
Who thinks that? He's there for his pace and movement off the ball and he can run fast with the ball without losing control of it. That's is his game. The problem England have is Foden and Sterling's movement is a class above but there is nobody to pick them out. Mount perhaps but beyond that?

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Re: Your England XI

Post by The_Gun » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:03 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:04 am
Southgate seems to be saying he will play Kane from the start vs the Czechs too. I'm all for playing a player through a bad patch, but if he is as as shattered as he looks that's surely a horrible decision. Feels like a manager taking account of media pressure and trying to back a player by picking him, even when it's not in the player's best interests.
If Kane weren't fit then the England camp would be well aware of that and he wouldn't be starting. He's had a quiet couple of games, in part due to not getting service, but he was in great form for Spurs at the end of the PL season and is our best player.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:49 am

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:03 am
If Kane weren't fit then the England camp would be well aware of that and he wouldn't be starting. He's had a quiet couple of games, in part due to not getting service, but he was in great form for Spurs at the end of the PL season and is our best player.
Lack of service and England's best player, yes on both. However, he's had a long season which has involved injuries and we are on 4 points - so why take the risk? He's clearly not 100%, so I really don't see the point when we have good players on the bench.

Even if he grabs a goal vs the Czechs I'd rather have him rested for the knock out rounds.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by The_Gun » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:25 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:49 am
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:03 am
If Kane weren't fit then the England camp would be well aware of that and he wouldn't be starting. He's had a quiet couple of games, in part due to not getting service, but he was in great form for Spurs at the end of the PL season and is our best player.
Lack of service and England's best player, yes on both. However, he's had a long season which has involved injuries and we are on 4 points - so why take the risk? He's clearly not 100%, so I really don't see the point when we have good players on the bench.

Even if he grabs a goal vs the Czechs I'd rather have him rested for the knock out rounds.
With the data available to the medical/coaching staff these days, they will know for a fact whether he's 100% or not, and whether playing him is a risk or not. He also came out saying he is fit and feeling better than he has all season (I accept this may not be true).

We want/need to put on a good performance vs the Czechs tomorrow, and thus we should pick our best players. Yeah DCL is a good option, but he's nowhere near as good as Kane.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:45 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:49 am
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:03 am
If Kane weren't fit then the England camp would be well aware of that and he wouldn't be starting. He's had a quiet couple of games, in part due to not getting service, but he was in great form for Spurs at the end of the PL season and is our best player.
Lack of service and England's best player, yes on both. However, he's had a long season which has involved injuries and we are on 4 points - so why take the risk? He's clearly not 100%, so I really don't see the point when we have good players on the bench.

Even if he grabs a goal vs the Czechs I'd rather have him rested for the knock out rounds.
What if England look better without him, then what? I do think that he’s not right somehow. Be it physically or mentally. I also do think our midfield has been so bad thus far that the striker hasn’t had much chance whoever he might be.

If we play the same centre of midfield against the Czechs then that will be the final straw. We need to change in there without any shadow of doubt.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:17 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:45 pm


What if England look better without him, then what? I do think that he’s not right somehow. Be it physically or mentally. I also do think our midfield has been so bad thus far that the striker hasn’t had much chance whoever he might be.

If we play the same centre of midfield against the Czechs then that will be the final straw. We need to change in there without any shadow of doubt.
All this is in your opinion of course? The point has been made (Prufrock?) that there are other teams/ good teams with very good players/ on the pitch besides ourselves, and I'll add that it isn't always a striker who scores or wins games.( Shakira last night is a good example, De Bruyne another, Ronaldo a third and Lewandowski, a recognised striker, an isolated one.) Defences know Kane's potential and man mark him leaving others free. In this respect, again, a point I've already made, you are blaming an individual for daring to lose a game when he may actually contribute to winning it. Let's see what happens tomorrow and if Gareth Southgate finds a solution.

p.s. Getting Kyle Walker back in the side would be my contribution.
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Re: Your England XI

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:08 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:17 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:45 pm


What if England look better without him, then what? I do think that he’s not right somehow. Be it physically or mentally. I also do think our midfield has been so bad thus far that the striker hasn’t had much chance whoever he might be.

If we play the same centre of midfield against the Czechs then that will be the final straw. We need to change in there without any shadow of doubt.
All this is in your opinion of course? The point has been made (Prufrock?) that there are other teams/ good teams with very good players/ on the pitch besides ourselves, and I'll add that it isn't always a striker who scores or wins games.( Shakira last night is a good example, De Bruyne another, Ronaldo a third and Lewandowski, a recognised striker, an isolated one.) Defences know Kane's potential and man mark him leaving others free. In this respect, again, a point I've already made, you are blaming an individual for daring to lose a game when he may actually contribute to winning it. Let's see what happens tomorrow and if Gareth Southgate finds a solution.

p.s. Getting Kyle Walker back in the side would be my contribution.
No it wasn't I was asking if Kane is rested and England play well and look better - then what do we do for the next game (a knockout game)? It would be a hard call. Our on paper best player and definitely best striker - its why I'm unconvinced by resting him.

As for Walker - I think I'd play Trippier there just for his crossing and set pieces. Kyle for me is the one to pick when we expect to be doing more defending than one assumes the Czech's will force us into. But Trippier probably is the one who will pick some crosses out.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:19 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:04 am
Southgate seems to be saying he will play Kane from the start vs the Czechs too.
He's now confirmed that Kane will start.

I'm a little torn on this, in that I still consider an off-colour Kane to be no worse than any of the available options.
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Re: Your England XI

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:46 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:19 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:04 am
Southgate seems to be saying he will play Kane from the start vs the Czechs too.
He's now confirmed that Kane will start.

I'm a little torn on this, in that I still consider an off-colour Kane to be no worse than any of the available options.
Mason Mount and Ben Chillwell are now having to self isolate....due to close contact with Gilmore. I'd say their contact was fairly limited during the game..

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Re: Your England XI

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:51 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:19 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:04 am
Southgate seems to be saying he will play Kane from the start vs the Czechs too.
He's now confirmed that Kane will start.

I'm a little torn on this, in that I still consider an off-colour Kane to be no worse than any of the available options.
For once I agree with Souness in that England’s only chance of progressing further is for Kane to start scoring as there aren’t lots of goals in the squad otherwise. So whilst I think his head might not be in the right place I’d say it’s worth playing him as a goal might just kickstart him. I think DCL would give a different dimension but if you play a good side and create one or two chances would you back him to score? Probably not.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:54 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:46 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:19 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:04 am
Southgate seems to be saying he will play Kane from the start vs the Czechs too.
He's now confirmed that Kane will start.

I'm a little torn on this, in that I still consider an off-colour Kane to be no worse than any of the available options.
Mason Mount and Ben Chillwell are now having to self isolate....due to close contact with Gilmore. I'd say their contact was fairly limited during the game..
Chelsea lot innit. Southgate will now be working out how he can get a third centre half into our midfield….

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Re: Your England XI

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:20 pm

We will see what happens re Kane. Again, playing a player through bad form is fine. I don't buy the argument that managers and coaches see the fitness data and wouldn't play a player if they weren't there, because we have all watched football long enough to know that's nonsense. Managers don't make dispassionate decisions ad plenty of managers will make daft choices based on media coverage or a player asking to play even when they shouldn't. For all that, we are guessing as to what is happening based on a couple of games on TV - so we just have to see how we play tomorrow.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:54 pm

Today's results put England through regardless of tomorrow's game.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:30 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:46 pm

Mason Mount and Ben Chillwell are now having to self isolate....due to close contact with Gilmore. I'd say their contact was fairly limited during the game..
Apparently they can still both play - they've isolated as a precaution.
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