Your England XI

There ARE other teams(we'd have no-one to play otherwise) and here's where all-comers can discuss the wider world of football......

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Worthy4England
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Re: Your England XI

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:02 pm

I think if you constantly tinker when playing well and lose, you're open to lots of criticism. The way we're playing at the moment, I almost have it in the "nowt to lose" bin.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by boltonboris » Tue Jul 02, 2024 11:23 am

There's nothing wrong with the personnel from the last match. The issue is the way they'r ebeing asked us to play

The goal we conceded, the ball was forced backwards pretty well, then when the midfield edged up, the defence stayed and it created a massive gap for runners to exploit, then the defenders ended up trying to squeeze and it went tits up.

We're too deep. With and without the ball. It causes issues in possession and in transition. We need to get up the bleeding pitch and move the players more quickly
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Re: Your England XI

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Jul 02, 2024 11:48 am

boltonboris wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2024 11:23 am
There's nothing wrong with the personnel from the last match. The issue is the way they'r ebeing asked us to play

The goal we conceded, the ball was forced backwards pretty well, then when the midfield edged up, the defence stayed and it created a massive gap for runners to exploit, then the defenders ended up trying to squeeze and it went tits up.

We're too deep. With and without the ball. It causes issues in possession and in transition. We need to get up the bleeding pitch and move the players more quickly
Yeah - I think it's as much about intensity and speed back to front on the transition. We look very laboured for far too much of the time - bit like us on a bad day, too much sideways and backwards and not enough going through the lines to get us up the pitch. Whatever system you pick, you have to play it with intent - this system when it's not executing well, is awful - whilst I hear "it's better than lumping it and it coming straight back" at least you might have half a chance of it not doing, whilst just knocking it side to side around Rice as a pivot doesn't lose you the ball, but you don't go anywhere with it. We've had 13 shots on target in 4 games and some of them have been so weak, you'd struggle to count them as serious contenders for a shot-on.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:55 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2024 11:48 am
We've had 13 shots on target in 4 games and some of them have been so weak, you'd struggle to count them as serious contenders for a shot-on.
Aye - Bellingham's scissor-kick in the 95th minute was the first effort on target. Not good enough and notable that it came from a decidely non-"system" move. Long-time readers will know I like my teams to have an identity, but when it becomes a diktat it acts as a straitjacket. And yes, I see the parallels, and I hope Ian does too.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Jul 02, 2024 1:16 pm

The basic likeness in comparison between the way England play and that of Bolton can't be ignored. Possession doesn't count for anything except display unless there's an end product, but at least, as Slovenia proved, it can be countered by determination and effort. We've had a bit of luck in the draw and avoided Germany, Spain France and Portugal so far, but going off viewing, any of them would destroy us if we play nice guy pass-the -parcel stuff as a mandate for success. Right now, we have to face facts; we just aren't good enough or tough enough for international football as is. I desperately want to be wrong, but hope is all I have left . I'll keep hoping though. :oyea:

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Re: Your England XI

Post by Hoboh » Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:33 am

Watched Bellingham closely and apart from the goal, over the whole game, he actually did three useful things!
Reckon Rice is well overrated as well, he is so bloody negative at times and for a key midfielder, way to static. Foden looked like he was still back in the UK and Stones need to develop a faster thinking brain that helps him make up his mind when to pass.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Jul 06, 2024 1:23 pm

Can’t say I hold out much hope for today. Agreed with all the above about the system and how the players are being asked to play. But I can’t help feel that it’s the same questions asked about England players from tournaments past - your lampards, Gerard’s, Scholes, John terrys - why can’t you put the same effort and endeavour into England as you do your club? We’ll find out today - if last Sunday hasn’t shocked them into turning up not sure what will.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by Prufrock » Sat Jul 06, 2024 2:36 pm

The rumoured team isn't what I'd do, but looks a big improvement to me. I can at least work out the plan.

Worry it's a bit late in the day to be coming up with this, and not sure how we'll stretch them in behind, but I can at least work out what we're trying to do. Switzerland are a good team, but we should have enough.
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Re: Your England XI

Post by Prufrock » Sat Jul 06, 2024 5:07 pm

Ah. Maybe not. More of the same.
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Re: Your England XI

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Jul 06, 2024 5:16 pm

Encouraging aftee first 5

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Re: Your England XI

Post by jmjhb » Sat Jul 06, 2024 5:35 pm

From a corner to the keeper in 4 passes. Modern passing football at its finest.

And again from a free-kick.

If Evatt does that next season I hope he's hounded out the next day.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Jul 06, 2024 8:13 pm

Team was right. Subs - it’s a catch between trying to win the fecking thing and your penners plan!

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Re: Your England XI

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:28 pm

Micah Richards: " In defence of Foden - 'this is a tactical issue, not a player problem'.. Applies to a few...

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Re: Your England XI

Post by Mar » Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:49 pm

We've been good at grinding out low scoring results to keep us in the game. When we need to step up a notch it looks like we've got it in us, but generally speaking we seem to be airing on the side of caution rather than committing bodies going forward. Kane for example is back doing defensive duties rather than running past the last line of defence to get on the end of Saka's crosses.

It seems disjointed and reactionary. I fear we'll end up leaving our committed attacking till too late and fall afoul of a goal (ala Slovakia) but struggle to get ourselves out of the mire.

Hopefully the team will finally click and we'll get through and kick on.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by Prufrock » Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:05 pm

I mean all the press reports I've seen seem to suggest we changed shape on Saturday. If we did it was so badly done as to be unnoticeable to me! There's positions are a starting point and then doing the same thing but saying it's a shame change so you don't have to say you're playing Bellingham out on the left...
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Re: Your England XI

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:09 pm

I've been feeling all week that we'll go ahead through Kane (for the bantz) but Koeman will change things, probably throwing on Big Wout, while Gareth sits on his hands till it's too late. 3-1 Nederland.

I'd rather be happy than right, though. They are beatable, even if I fear Dumfries's raids down their right and Gakpo's cuts inside from their left. And we do have some really good players. It's just that they haven't really proven it yet, and luck is a brick on elastic.

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Re: Your England XI

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:24 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:05 pm
I mean all the press reports I've seen seem to suggest we changed shape on Saturday. If we did it was so badly done as to be unnoticeable to me! There's positions are a starting point and then doing the same thing but saying it's a shame change so you don't have to say you're playing Bellingham out on the left...
It was a fairly fluid system, lining up as a back three but often morphing into more of a four with Walker and Trips more as full-backs than their allotted 'formation' roles as RCB and LWB respectively. Notionally Jude and Foden were 10s flanking Kane but he often dropped deep, as he does, even when he should be told not to. Rice and Mainoo both central. Nowt wrong with movement particularly, formations should be fluid and players should be able to fill different roles.

Then we went behind - which wasn't a shock, it had been coming - and Gaz went mad. First it looked like he was hooking Bellingham (which is fine if that's what he wants to do, if risky in PR terms) but then it changed. Officially the subs are listed as Palmer for Konsa, Shaw for Mainoo and Eze for Trips, each of which bends the brain slightly. Took me a while (watching on the pub's annoyingly small telly) to figure out that Shaw, for whom we've been crying out at LWB all tournament, had replaced Konsa at LCB, with Eze again an ersatz LWB and Palmer becoming one of the 10s while Jude dropped deeeper alongside Rice.

For a while I wondered if he'd gone back-four (back two really, with your full-backs bombing on) and dropped Rice alongside Stones, our only proper centre-back, but it looked more back-three to me - especially as we went forward in chase of the game.

Either way, what had previously looked like fluidity suddenly looked a bit chaotic, and weirdly it worked. Sometimes it does. It's a well-told story about how in Istanbul, 3-0 down at half-time, Benitez had to change his intended substitutions on the hoof, calling Traore back from the showers amid Finnan's injury and much mangled Spanglish, altering ad-hoc to a back three. Turned out alright for them too, but the only place to habitually make stuff up as you go along is if you work in improv comedy...

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Re: Your England XI

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:01 pm

Fair fecking play! Get in there!

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