I've lost the plot - I agree with Graham Poll

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:36 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7023193.stm

Article here about the FA looking to tackle the "discipline" problems in the game with action at the lower levels - Junior football and the like. As a young 'un bought up with Rugby Union and Cricket as my main sports, I never could understand the attitude of the Senior players at football to the officials and often wondered why more wasn't done to stop players other than the Captain talking back to the referee (and the Captain needs to call em "Sir" not "Oi W*nker")

The often cited "heat of the moment" thing that ex-professional footballers randomly lob into the debate doesn't hold good for me - if we can manage the discipline at Rugby where people are getting thumped all over the shop, then I don't think the footballers have a valid argument.

That Poll wants to tackle this from the top down makes good sense to me, although I reckon that both at once would be a better approach.

I remember the Cantona drop kick incident and commenting at the time that if a player had done that at a Sunday League game, they'd have been Sine Die - same FA, different rules.

Dave Sutton's barnet · Post by **Dave Sutton's barnet** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:57 am

Quite agree with y'both.

Heard a recent idea which might help: if a team protests too much, the captain gets booked. Can you imagine John Terry's reaction if he thought Ashley Cole's whingeing was going to cost him a place in the Champions League final?

a1 · Post by a1 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:15 pm

the different between rugby refs getting 'respected' and football refs being hounded etc .. is that football referees are a set of smug bastard schoolteacher types who love being in charge..

rugby refs 'love' the game and probably play it in their spare time and could probably batter you if they wanted ..

superjohnmcginlay · Post by **superjohnmcginlay** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:21 pm

a1 wrote:the different between rugby refs getting 'respected' and football refs being hounded etc .. is that football referees are a set of smug bastard schoolteacher types who love being in charge..

rugby refs 'love' the game and probably play it in their spare time and could probably batter you if they wanted ..

Fookin 'ell. I understood a post from a1!!!

Soldier_Of_The_White_Army · Post by **Soldier_Of_The_White_Army** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:22 pm

superjohnmcginlay wrote:
a1 wrote:the different between rugby refs getting 'respected' and football refs being hounded etc .. is that football referees are a set of smug bastard schoolteacher types who love being in charge..

rugby refs 'love' the game and probably play it in their spare time and could probably batter you if they wanted ..
Fookin 'ell. I understood a post from a1!!!

Montreal Wanderer · Post by **Montreal Wanderer** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:28 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:Quite agree with y'both.

Heard a recent idea which might help: if a team protests too much, the captain gets booked. Can you imagine John Terry's reaction if he thought Ashley Cole's whingeing was going to cost him a place in the Champions League final?

Most of our team would try to get Nolan booked I imagine.

communistworkethic · Post by **communistworkethic** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:57 pm

superjohnmcginlay wrote:
a1 wrote:the different between rugby refs getting 'respected' and football refs being hounded etc .. is that football referees are a set of smug bastard schoolteacher types who love being in charge..

rugby refs 'love' the game and probably play it in their spare time and could probably batter you if they wanted ..
Fookin 'ell. I understood a post from a1!!!

don't make him right though.

the difference is not who they are - you'll find most rugby refs have similar backgrounds to football refs.

he difference is how they manage players. If you go to a big rugby game you can get a ref radio - you can listen to what he's saying - because every decision he gives he explains what he's given, why he's given it and who's at fault for it. They are also not afraid to use their powers to remove players from the field. In foootball, refs get criticised for bookings and sendings off, in rugby they are supported.

Dave Sutton's barnet · Post by **Dave Sutton's barnet** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:13 pm

communistworkethic wrote:In foootball, refs get criticised for bookings and sendings off, in rugby they are supported.

Indeed. How many have bleated "let's have a bit of common sense" after a clearly justified caution or expulsion?

fatshaft · Post by **fatshaft** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:47 pm

communistworkethic wrote:
superjohnmcginlay wrote:
a1 wrote:the different between rugby refs getting 'respected' and football refs being hounded etc .. is that football referees are a set of smug bastard schoolteacher types who love being in charge..

rugby refs 'love' the game and probably play it in their spare time and could probably batter you if they wanted ..
Fookin 'ell. I understood a post from a1!!!
don't make him right though.

.

Indeed. So football refs don't love the game? Pretty sure Howard Webb could batter most of us as well.

While I hate giving some kudos to rugby (as it's total pish), the saying that it's a game for thugs played by gentlemen, whereas football is a game for gentlemen played by thugs is pertinent I believe.

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:47 pm

communistworkethic wrote:
superjohnmcginlay wrote:
a1 wrote:the different between rugby refs getting 'respected' and football refs being hounded etc .. is that football referees are a set of smug bastard schoolteacher types who love being in charge..

rugby refs 'love' the game and probably play it in their spare time and could probably batter you if they wanted ..
Fookin 'ell. I understood a post from a1!!!
don't make him right though.

the difference is not who they are - you'll find most rugby refs have similar backgrounds to football refs.

he difference is how they manage players. If you go to a big rugby game you can get a ref radio - you can listen to what he's saying - because every decision he gives he explains what he's given, why he's given it and who's at fault for it. They are also not afraid to use their powers to remove players from the field. In foootball, refs get criticised for bookings and sendings off, in rugby they are supported.

I think the difference is how the players manage themselves...don't get too many overpaid, skrike arsed prima donna's at Rugby who hit the deck rolling in agony at the slightest touch - just look at Dida's performance last night...

a1 · Post by a1 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:32 pm

Worthy4England wrote: I think the difference is how the players manage themselves...don't get too many overpaid, skrike arsed prima donna's at Rugby who hit the deck rolling in agony at the slightest touch - just look at Dida's performance last night...

i think that the way football players act (apart from the megabucks they earn) is down to the way the games are controlled by the refs ..

this "i'm right , my decision is final! go away children.. " type stuff (the impression i got of the arsehole that ref'ed the middlebrough-chesterfield cup semi ) doesnt help , maybe mic-ing up football refs so everyone can here would make them explain what theyve decided in more detail would help.. at least then we'd know what he thought ...

it might also stop knobhead footballers swearing at them .. if you can hear how folk act , you'll have a better understanding of them and the game so it might cause them to not be 'dickheads' ..

these graham poll , jeff winter, types give the impression its all about them and them giving opinions on football and its players just make me laugh coz they were pricks when they were in it , and look like money wanting attention whores now that theyre not ..

its like football wants the controversy ..

Abdoulaye's Twin · Post by **Abdoulaye's Twin** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:59 pm

the fact that their managers condone it and possibly expect it from their players doesn't help. How many times have we heard Wenger go " I deedent see it

" and most of the rest shouting he didn't touch him when a number 39 bus would have been more subtle.

There should be a mandatory fine for arguing with a ref. Each case costs a player 10 grand and the club 50 grand. 2nd offense it doubles and so on. On the xth offense over a season the player gets a 3 match ban. If a club gets x offenses it gets a big fine. Do the same with blatent cheating and I'm sure we'll see some improvement.

Worthy4England · Post by **Worthy4England** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:12 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:the fact that their managers condone it and possibly expect it from their players doesn't help. How many times have we heard Wenger go " I deedent see it " and most of the rest shouting he didn't touch him when a number 39 bus would have been more subtle.

There should be a mandatory fine for arguing with a ref. Each case costs a player 10 grand and the club 50 grand. 2nd offense it doubles and so on. On the xth offense over a season the player gets a 3 match ban. If a club gets x offenses it gets a big fine. Do the same with blatent cheating and I'm sure we'll see some improvement.

problem with fines or retropective punishment is that they don't affect the game in which the incident occurred - also, a little like flat rate tax, they're regressive - so they have more impact on a club with a smaller revenue base.

I'd much rather see some instant justice that hit clubs where it counted - on the result of the game being played. So yellow/red cards first/second offence (per team) so 1st player who argues once gets yellow, second player from the same team straight red. Blatant cheating - refs already have the sanction against this - again, in retrospection I'd dock the offening team points.

bobo the clown · Post by **bobo the clown** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:14 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:Quite agree with y'both.

Heard a recent idea which might help: if a team protests too much, the captain gets booked. Can you imagine John Terry's reaction if he thought Ashley Cole's whingeing was going to cost him a place in the Champions League final?

Could be a way of getting Nolan "rested".

Batman · Post by **Batman** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:25 pm

bobo the clown wrote:
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:Quite agree with y'both.

Heard a recent idea which might help: if a team protests too much, the captain gets booked. Can you imagine John Terry's reaction if he thought Ashley Cole's whingeing was going to cost him a place in the Champions League final?
Could be a way of getting Nolan "rested".

Every week

norm the jedi · Post by **norm the jedi** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:44 pm

Anyone know what the sanction for non captain vocals will be 10 yards - free kick - penalty inside the box?

Whatever happened to the 10 yard walk off for descent?

Soldier_Of_The_White_Army · Post by **Soldier_Of_The_White_Army** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:48 pm

norm the jedi wrote:Anyone know what the sanction for non captain vocals will be 10 yards - free kick - penalty inside the box?

Whatever happened to the 10 yard walk off for descent?

It joined the 'Six steps for keepers' and 'the daylight rule' in the wanky ideas by the F.A file!

norm the jedi · Post by **norm the jedi** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:59 pm

Steps eeee remember ...
Is it still 6 seconds.. The rule they only ever used once.. feckin Ellerray at Newcastle and that sh@@cu&& Shearer stuck it in..

Dave Sutton's barnet · Post by **Dave Sutton's barnet** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:45 pm

Soldier_Of_The_White_Army wrote:
norm the jedi wrote:Anyone know what the sanction for non captain vocals will be 10 yards - free kick - penalty inside the box?

Whatever happened to the 10 yard walk off for descent?
It joined the 'Six steps for keepers' and 'the daylight rule' in the wanky ideas by the F.A file!

I still think 10 yards' punishment is a good idea, if it's optional. That would kill off the rather pathetic main reason for the law being dropped - that teams would purposefully get 25-yard free-kicks moved to the edge of the box, so the specialist couldn't score.

communistworkethic · Post by **communistworkethic** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:27 am

sorry but "daylight" was an andy gray invention, it was just a figment of his "not good enough to manage" mind.

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I've lost the plot - I agree with Graham Poll

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