Spurs & Villa follow Megson's lead

[Worthy4England]

It's all a load of bollocks and just like it was when the situation originally arose, is nit picking at a point in time when a decision was made to do "x" or "y".

The facts are (given that so many people are discussing non-facts)

Megson and the Club said on numberous occasions during the course of last season that their target for last season was to not get relegated - not sure how fans could not have been aware of this.

Megson did what he felt necessary to achieve this - and did.

In support of him achieving his wider, main and only real firm, objective, he picked a weakened team against Lisbon away, as he had done previously against Belgrade away). On this occasion the result was different. C'est la vie.

To qualify for the final (as the draw panned out), should we have won against Lisbon, we would have had to play Rangers and Fiorentina over two legs. That would have put an additional 4 games into our schedule, on 3rd of April prior to Villa where we got spanked anyhow, on the 10th of April prior to West Ham which we won, on the 24th of April prior to Spurs where we secured a valuable away point and prior to Sunderland where we secured a vital 3 points which made us mathematically safe.

He still achieved his one main objective - which was to stay up. What is there to discuss?

[FaninOz]

Back to the thread, weakened sides go out in UEFA Cup :-

"... Tottenham went out of the Uefa Cup 3-1 on aggregate despite their below-strength side earning a battling second-leg draw with Shakhtar Donetsk.

With many first-teamers rested ..."

And :-

".... A weakened Aston Villa side were dumped out of the Uefa Cup after being beaten away to CSKA Moscow in the second leg of their last-32 tie.

Villa were missing eight first-team regulars ..."

But if you take the games seriously then :-

"... Manchester City set up a last-16 Uefa Cup encounter with Aalborg after an effortless win over FC Copenhagen.

A strong City line-up were frustrated in the first half, with Robinho and Bellamy ..."

I appreciate that the Premiership comes first but what is the point of fighting hard to get a European place then throwing it all away the following season by selecting reserve squads in UEFA Cup games. And this isn't a get at Megson post as ALL managers appear to do it in the UEFA , FA and Carling cups. Arsenal for example use the FA and Carling cups as experience for their younger and fringe players, it tends to work much of the time but isn't it disrespectful to the competitions and to football fans in general.

Its not surprising that the attendance at many cup games is so abismal, and not only at Bolton.

[superjohnmcginlay]

Back to the thread, weakened sides go out in UEFA Cup :-

"... Tottenham went out of the Uefa Cup 3-1 on aggregate despite their below-strength side earning a battling second-leg draw with Shakhtar Donetsk.

With many first-teamers rested ..."

And :-

".... A weakened Aston Villa side were dumped out of the Uefa Cup after being beaten away to CSKA Moscow in the second leg of their last-32 tie.

Villa were missing eight first-team regulars ..."

But if you take the games seriously then :-

"... Manchester City set up a last-16 Uefa Cup encounter with Aalborg after an effortless win over FC Copenhagen.

A strong City line-up were frustrated in the first half, with Robinho and Bellamy ..."

I appreciate that the Premiership comes first but what is the point of fighting hard to get a European place then throwing it all away the following season by selecting reserve squads in UEFA Cup games. And this isn't a get at Megson post as ALL managers appear to do it in the UEFA , FA and Carling cups. Arsenal for example use the FA and Carling cups as experience for their younger and fringe players, it tends to work much of the time but isn't it disrespectful to the competitions and to football fans in general.

Its not surprising that the attendance at many cup games is so abismal, and not only at Bolton.

Its funny that the only team that didnt fight hard to get into Europe (Citeh - Winners of the biggest set of girls on a football pitch award) got through.
I still cant get my head around qualifying for Europe by not tackling anyone.

[claus jensens guitar]

In fact find a manager who thinks their team can play 50 plus games using a squad of 16 players without rotation competing in the top league!

Point is. Not one of our players started over 40 (nevermind 50) games last season. They weren't so overworked considering the size of the squad we had and our lack of action in the domestic cups.

Davies 40
AOB 40
Nolan 39
Diouf 34 (8 subs)
the rest of the first team averaged between 20-30 games.

[Worthy4England]

In fact find a manager who thinks their team can play 50 plus games using a squad of 16 players without rotation competing in the top league!

Point is. Not one of our players started over 40 (nevermind 50) games last season. They weren't so overworked considering the size of the squad we had and our lack of action in the domestic cups.

Davies 40
AOB 40
Nolan 39
Diouf 34 (8 subs)
the rest of the first team averaged between 20-30 games.

Point is, manager made a decision based on reaching his primary objective of us not getting relegated - get over it.

[superjohnmcginlay]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/spo ... 902271608/

[Athers]

Villa must be wondering why they bothered starting the season early and playing the Intertoto Cup if it wasn't to try and win the UEFA. They'll not have made much money from their run and their fans will be left disappointed (only Prague stands out as a good away and that's nowt compared to us last year), they're out the FA cup and have a 6 point cushion on Arsenal, go out fighting in Moscow I say.

[Prufrock]

Villa must be wondering why they bothered starting the season early and playing the Intertoto Cup if it wasn't to try and win the UEFA. They'll not have made much money from their run and their fans will be left disappointed (only Prague stands out as a good away and that's nowt compared to us last year), they're out the FA cup and have a 6 point cushion on Arsenal, go out fighting in Moscow I say.

I assume they didn't think they would have such a genuine chance of playing Champions League football next season, and want to make that a priority.

[ratbert]

Villa fans are fuming today - even made front page of the local paper.

[fatshaft]

Villa must be wondering why they bothered starting the season early and playing the Intertoto Cup if it wasn't to try and win the UEFA. They'll not have made much money from their run and their fans will be left disappointed (only Prague stands out as a good away and that's nowt compared to us last year), they're out the FA cup and have a 6 point cushion on Arsenal, go out fighting in Moscow I say.

I assume they didn't think they would have such a genuine chance of playing Champions League football next season, and want to make that a priority.

I think it has to be, O'Neill probably thought this was still a rebuilding season, not aware that Everton would get off to a howler, Arsenal just being a mess, and Chelsea self destructing.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Villa must be wondering why they bothered starting the season early and playing the Intertoto Cup if it wasn't to try and win the UEFA. They'll not have made much money from their run and their fans will be left disappointed (only Prague stands out as a good away and that's nowt compared to us last year), they're out the FA cup and have a 6 point cushion on Arsenal, go out fighting in Moscow I say.

Nobody does, and Randy Lerner needs it less than most

Waffa only brings intangible benefits like "European club" and punter confidence/optimism

[Worthy4England]

Villa must be wondering why they bothered starting the season early and playing the Intertoto Cup if it wasn't to try and win the UEFA. They'll not have made much money from their run and their fans will be left disappointed (only Prague stands out as a good away and that's nowt compared to us last year), they're out the FA cup and have a 6 point cushion on Arsenal, go out fighting in Moscow I say.

Nobody does, and Randy Lerner needs it less than most

Waffa only brings intangible benefits like "European club" and punter confidence/optimism

Fairly sure Gartside was quoted as Bolton not breaking even unless they got to the semis, last year?

[warthog]

Villa must be wondering why they bothered starting the season early and playing the Intertoto Cup if it wasn't to try and win the UEFA. They'll not have made much money from their run and their fans will be left disappointed (only Prague stands out as a good away and that's nowt compared to us last year), they're out the FA cup and have a 6 point cushion on Arsenal, go out fighting in Moscow I say.

Nobody does, and Randy Lerner needs it less than most

Waffa only brings intangible benefits like "European club" and punter confidence/optimism

Fairly sure Gartside was quoted as Bolton not breaking even unless they got to the semis, last year?

It wouldn't be surprising. That was the case with Celtic when they got to the final. We made about £1.2 million the first time, but that was because Channel 5 covered all the matches.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

That was the case with Celtic when they got to the final.

Home attendances in that competition:
59,553
53,726
59,000
59,759
60,000

What were they doing, flying to away legs in a gold-plated jet? I don't doubt the veracity of what you're saying, Warty, I doubt the fiscal future of the competition - and stuffing it full of more dead rubbers against no-marks under the banner "Europa League" ain't gonna help.

[warthog]

That was the case with Celtic when they got to the final.

Home attendances in that competition:
59,553
53,726
59,000
59,759
60,000

What were they doing, flying to away legs in a gold-plated jet? I don't doubt the veracity of what you're saying, Warty, I doubt the fiscal future of the competition - and stuffing it full of more dead rubbers against no-marks under the banner "Europa League" ain't gonna help.

I am only going off what a Celtic spokesman (chairman?) said. Maybe the gate receipts are under someone's mattress.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Couldn't possibly comment. But while reiterating that I don't doubt you, I'll just wonder if ANYONE makes a profit from the competition – which, like it or not, is a fairly serious consideration.

[warthog]

Couldn't possibly comment. But while reiterating that I don't doubt you, I'll just wonder if ANYONE makes a profit from the competition – which, like it or not, is a fairly serious consideration.

At the moment I doubt that anyone makes much if anything. Next season's TV rights will be sold centrally as with the Champions League, maybe that will improve things. Personally, I think it has a debilitating effect on teams which will be worse next season with two more games in the group stages.

[officer_dibble]

Villa fans should be gutted there

What will they remember

4th place in the premiership or a Uefa Cup final

Spurs, do have more pressing concerns

But Villa? Disappointed with O Neill

As with the Bolton situation, the incorrect assertion is that be weakening the team, you're swapping position "x" in the Prem, for "a cup final". The UEFA cup final is still 4 matches away, after this round, from which you have to win at least 2. So the reality is they've swapped a theoretical "4th place in the Prem", for a real 5 games left to play before they get anywhere near buying tickets for a final.

It also uses the assumption that by playing their full side that they would necessarily have won.

Just as an aside, if they both won this round, they meet in the next - so you can't use the argument for both that by weakening the team they're missing out on a cup final - one of them logically isn't going to reach the final, as they'll go out next round if not this.

Right I left this topic alone to see what the score was mainly before I looked stupid

I'm not talking Megson, nor Redknapp. Relegation is a much bigger issue than '4th'. I appreciate the amount of money involved in finishing fourth, rather than 5th.

You refer to facts, and quite rightly point out I state "4th place in the premiership or Uefa Cup Final". You also quite rightly state Villa would not be in the final, even if they won in Moscow yesterday.

Thing is football isn't loved for stats, or facts. Its passion, hopes and dreams. I tell you now I would much rather have 1 lasting memory of us winning a reasonable competition (and I include Uefa cup in that as its something we worked to qualify for) than countless memories of finishing 10-17th in the premiership. Yeah beating West Ham, Boro etc to survive felt amazing. But so would giving a Uefa Cup run our all. Anyway, I digress, as we are talking Villa.

For me O'Neills decision to jepordise what I consider a reasonable chance of success given the teams left in the competition in the Uefa cup, for a league match at home to a team who have, I think, 2 points away from home all year is a bit of a joke really. Villa are 6 points clear of Arsenal. In the race for FOURTH. Not first, or even second, but fourth. Money talks, and its obviously preferable for O Neill that Villa, who do have a small squad, have only league matches to worry about from now until May. Whether or not Villa would make the final is academic really - its the hope of reaching the final, achieving something that has been stamped on by O'Neill.

Thats sad, an absolute kick in the balls for real fans who want the hope of doing something special, achieving something in a cup.

Battling for relegation (and I disagreed with Megson last year) is a different kettle of fish - and in fairness to Tottenham they have a cup final on Sunday. Their second in two years. Something Martin O Neill won't manage any time soon with that attitude by the looks of things.

By the way I like Villa, good side, O Neill has done well there. But he's wrong for me on this one. Really dissapointing for English football.

[TANGODANCER]

Might be worth remembering we did give it our all and lost by the odd goal. Would putting in the ones we left out have guaranteed anything? If we'd lost just the same (which we might well have done) and got relegated in the bargain, exactly what would the fans reaction be right now playing in the Championship and slating Megson for putting emphasis on the wrong priorities. The point's been hammered to death without any real knowlege other than Mystic Meg type fortune telling to prove anything either way. Right now, we could lose to, or beat anybody, the league's that fickle and uncertain.

[FaninOz]

After very good performances in the Champions League :-

After very good Champions League performances with full strength teams, yesterday :-

Liverpool were very poor and couldn't beat an equally poor Middlesbrough, losing 2-0;

Arsenal were a shadow of their normal self and couldn't score again, 0-0 v Fulham;

Chelsea were very lucky to beat Wigan at Home 2-1;

So playing full strength teams in Europe affected these three teams performance in the Premiership yesterday.

Also, Ferguson has said that

"... next Wednesday's Premier League trip to Newcastle is a bigger priority for his side than the Carling Cup final. We obviously want to win because the winning mentality in the club is why we have been successful,

but we know what our priorities are and that will affect the team that I pick on Sunday," he said.

Ferguson promises to continue youth policy "We have a big game at Newcastle on Wednesday and the priority for us will always be the Premier League and the Champions League. ..."

So the Carling Cup comes a poor third or even fourth after the FA Cup for teams like United.

Money talks and there is no money in the FA or Carling cups for teams like United and no money in the UEFA Cup for anyone. So why give it any priority.