West Ham are complete failures! Let's all laugh at 'em!

[fozzy]

Lots to debate but can't afford much time at present.

London bias. Don't get it. If it were true, then why do Gerrard, Rooney et al get games? Here's the England team that started against Hungary:

Phil Jagielka
Adam Johnson
Theo Walcott
Glen Johnson
Ashley Cole '
Steven Gerrard(C)
John Terry
Frank Lampard'
Wayne Rooney'
Gareth Barry
Joe Hart

Quite a few Northerners. And would Capello really - really - select players only from the capital? Firstly, why? Secondly, what good would it do him?

Selective quotes about Cole there. Some fans were praising Davies on KUMB.

England/Bolton/West Ham. List the recent Bolton players you think deserved a cap. I'll do the same.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Selective quotes about Cole there. Some fans were praising Davies on KUMB.

Have to say, there was more grudging respect for Davies on there when I looked than there were w*nkstains complaining about him.

[Prufrock]

Selective quotes about Cole there. Some fans were praising Davies on KUMB.

Have to say, there was more grudging respect for Davies on there when I looked than there were w*nkstains complaining about him.

I wouldn't have gone that far but there were more than I'd expected shall we say

[Worthy4England]

England/Bolton/West Ham. List the recent Bolton players you think deserved a cap. I'll do the same.

I think deserved a cap might be looking at it slightly the wrong way round.

It's not when you look at the likes of Gerrard and Rooney - they are better players than we can afford. It's when you look at some of the fringe players and 2nd/3rd choice players.

Then you say - if they're getting a go, then they aren't necessarily better than a couple of ours, so why do ours never get a go?

[Lord Kangana]

Bingo!

[fozzy]

England/Bolton/West Ham. List the recent Bolton players you think deserved a cap. I'll do the same.

I think deserved a cap might be looking at it slightly the wrong way round.

It's not when you look at the likes of Gerrard and Rooney - they are better players than we can afford. It's when you look at some of the fringe players and 2nd/3rd choice players.

Then you say - if they're getting a go, then they aren't necessarily better than a couple of ours, so why do ours never get a go?

Not quite sure what you mean, but when you get down to 2nd/3rd choice then it does become trickier as the playing field levels out. Fans of all teams will be claiming their hopeful deserves a spot.

And yours do get a go - Cahill was in the last England squad, right?

[FD]

England/Bolton/West Ham. List the recent Bolton players you think deserved a cap. I'll do the same.

How recently?

Nolan deserved a callup when he was in form, never got one even when he was banging them in for fun from every angle, volleys, headers, overhead kick even.

Davies when he was 2nd highest English goalscoring forward a season or two ago, never happened...Heskey! He's a better Heskey than Heskey yet has never gotten a look in. No defenders like playing against him.

Cahill gets called up and never gets a kick, Upson is inferior and gets to play in a world cup.

Carlton Cole isn't good enough in my view, big lad but weak as a baby girl.

Parker is good and might deserve a friendly.

So about equal then?

Matty Taylor a few seasons ago might have been worth a go when we were struggling for English left-siders.

[fozzy]

England/Bolton/West Ham. List the recent Bolton players you think deserved a cap. I'll do the same.

How recently?

Nolan deserved a callup when he was in form, never got one even when he was banging them in for fun from every angle, volleys, headers, overhead kick even.

Davies when he was 2nd highest English goalscoring forward a season or two ago, never happened...Heskey! He's a better Heskey than Heskey yet has never gotten a look in. No defenders like playing against him.

Cahill gets called up and never gets a kick, Upson is inferior and gets to play in a world cup.

Carlton Cole isn't good enough in my view, big lad but weak as a baby girl.

Parker is good and might deserve a friendly.

So about equal then?

Matty Taylor a few seasons ago might have been worth a go when we were struggling for English left-siders.

I'll take your word for it on Davies and Nolan, but perhaps the latter was just too far down the line. Nobody (Barry aside) really has come close to dislodging Lampard or Gerrard.

Upson's form has been in decline since before the WC but had several caps to his name, unlike Cahill. Before this he was a target of Spurs and Arsenal.

Cole was, until he got injured, immense last season.

[Tombwfc]

England/Bolton/West Ham. List the recent Bolton players you think deserved a cap. I'll do the same.

Like Worthy said, it's not that we're all bitter nice people who think Kevin Davies should be ousting Rooney, and Paul Robinson should be getting in ahead of Ashley Cole.

I don't think it's unrealistic to wonder why Carlton Cole has 7 England caps (and will get more) and Matthew Upson has 21. Meanwhile Davies (who scores more goals than Cole as well as being more effective) doesn't get a look in and neither does Cahill (who is better than Upson in every concievable way).

In the case of Cahill, his time will come. For Davies, he's missed out on representing his country due to reputation, while players of much inferior talent have had their chance and failed miserably. Nolan was the same.

I'm not saying it's specifically 'anti-Bolton', just that it would seem a lot harder to get a break internationally if you play for a small team outside of London.

If a player had done for a Fulham or a West Ham what Davies has for us, I think he'd have gotten at least a chance.

[FD]

I'll take your word for it on Davies and Nolan, but perhaps the latter was just too far down the line. Nobody (Barry aside) really has come close to dislodging Lampard or Gerrard.

Upson's form has been in decline since before the WC but had several caps to his name, unlike Cahill. Before this he was a target of Spurs and Arsenal.

You can't get caps unless the manager gives you a game, but even then, having "several caps" to your name does not mean you should be there ahead of someone clearly better and more promising.

Davo might have been too far down the line, but wasn't Heskey as well? His international record as a striker is appalling, of course that's just a statto way of looking at it, but it's still shocking.

The England team should be made up of players who are there on merit alone and not by the strength of their "brand". Crouch is proof this doesn't happen, Nolan was proof as well...(Nolan deserved a cap more than any of the players mentioned for either team) Rooney gets picked despite having the worst form of his young career.

[Worthy4England]

England/Bolton/West Ham. List the recent Bolton players you think deserved a cap. I'll do the same.

I think deserved a cap might be looking at it slightly the wrong way round.

It's not when you look at the likes of Gerrard and Rooney - they are better players than we can afford. It's when you look at some of the fringe players and 2nd/3rd choice players.

Then you say - if they're getting a go, then they aren't necessarily better than a couple of ours, so why do ours never get a go?

Not quite sure what you mean, but when you get down to 2nd/3rd choice then it does become trickier as the playing field levels out. Fans of all teams will be claiming their hopeful deserves a spot.

And yours do get a go - Cahill was in the last England squad, right?

Think there's a few people who've explained pretty well what I was trying to say.

What I was getting at, was that I wouldn't expect Davis to replace Rooney, but I would expect him to maybe get a go, if Heskey's getting a go.

Same with Cahill - is he good enough for England if Terry and Ferdinand are at their best? No he's a way off, but when Upson's getting 21 caps and people like Carragher are getting recalled, just to show how slow they are, then I could see why he might be a bit miffed.

Thing is, it never happens for Bolton players, whilst they're Bolton players.

[William the White]

I don't think Upson should be playing for England or have gone to the WC. But I think Cahill is some distance away also. He's making the squad. If he has a brill September he'll be noticed for sure and will climb the ladder. Nolan was never going to be able to push his way past Gerrard or Lampard. But there was a time when he had a strong case for the squad. Maybe one season. By the time he left us he was the subject of more bile than any captain i can remember and no one, even those, like me, who were his defenders, was talking about England.

[Worthy4England]

I don't think Upson should be playing for England or have gone to the WC. But I think Cahill is some distance away also. He's making the squad. If he has a brill September he'll be noticed for sure and will climb the ladder. Nolan was never going to be able to push his way past Gerrard or Lampard. But there was a time when he had a strong case for the squad. Maybe one season. By the time he left us he was the subject of more bile than any captain i can remember and no one, even those, like me, who were his defenders, was talking about England.

Agreed, 2003-2006 really was the last time he was regularly playing consistently good stuff. Dyer, Jenas, Sinclair, Keiran Richardson FFS. all made the squad at least once...

As an aside, interesting to see Newcastle made him Captain, apparently all he does is shout a lot and wave his arms. Surprised another Premiership manager can't spot this, as the three we had when Nolan was here couldn't spot it either.

[TANGODANCER]

We don't take much for granted in Bolton, Fozzy. We're just a little northern club that battle on regardless. The media make sure that we don't get much praise whatever we do. Our game against you was reported in The Sun as against "a side who could hardly be described as attractive" What's the betting the Hammers would have been glorified out of sight if the result had been turned around? Likewise, if Davies or Cahill played for West Ham they'd probably stand a far better chance of England selection than they do here. That's all we think our lads should be given; a chance. If they failed, no big deal. It's just that they'll probably never get that chance, particularly Davies due to his age. Despite all the southern expectation, seven defeats against us is always West Hams' failings rather than our triumph. We're used to it.

Of our current first XI, only four haven't represented their countries as full internationals. The four are all English.

[fozzy]

We don't take much for granted in Bolton, Fozzy. We're just a little northern club that battle on regardless. The media make sure that we don't get much praise whatever we do. Our game against you was reported in The Sun as against "a side who could hardly be described as attractive" What's the betting the Hammers would have been glorified out of sight if the result had been turned around? Likewise, if Davies or Cahill played for West Ham they'd probably stand a far better chance of England selection than they do here. That's all we think our lads should be given; a chance. If they failed, no big deal. It's just that they'll probably never get that chance, particularly Davies due to his age. Despite all the southern expectation, seven defeats against us is always West Hams' failings rather than our triumph. We're used to it.

Of our current first XI, only four haven't represented their countries as full internationals. The four are all English.

Upson had been capped numerous times, plus had been around the England squad a lot. Cahill hadn't. Capello weighed it up and obviously opted (or gambled) on Upson. You could call that a mistake but hindsight is a wonderful thing and practically every England player was sh*t.

Your argument about players from unfashionable or smaller sides not getting their chance can be heard up and down the country. When Cole was on form for us and not getting capped, similar things were said. 'If he played for a Top Four side, he'd get in the squad' etc etc.

The negative reporting you receive I would put down to two things. The perceived negative style of football you played under Toby Jug and lazy journalism. Reporters have space to fill and your reputation precedes you.

[CAPSLOCK]

Question was asked, why would he pick southern jessies over better performing northerners

Cos the press is so heavily fcuking cockney biased

A poor game for the heavily supported Upson and its a bad day at the office

Select Cahill and it goes tits up, six weeks of reminders how good the latest up n coming lightweight cockney is

[TANGODANCER]

The negative reporting you receive I would put down to two things. The perceived negative style of football you played under Toby Jug and lazy journalism. Reporters have space to fill and your reputation precedes you.

Not so much lazy journalism as downright bias. I'll quote you, again from The Sun's (another article) Stephen Howard, classed as their top sports writer: "It was the seventh consecutive time the Hammers had lost to the same extremely modest Bolton opposition" If we're extremely modest opposition, what does West Ham losing to us seven times in a row make them? It's things like this that anger us. We don't mind the truth, but credit where it's due.

[H. Pedersen]

That Davies interview is heartbreaking.

Then one can only surmise that life's been particularly good to you.

At least HP didn't say "tragic" !!

A multi millionaire of reasonable talent who's not managed to attain an England cap is a shame for him ... hardly heartbreaking HP.

Kevin Davies is an honest, hardworking player who doesn't dive or writhe around on the ground. He is unselfish to a fault and throws his body on the line. He is unfailingly loyal to the small team that resurrected his career. He's also got more skill than he's given credit for. His reward for all of these positive traits has been being ignored by his country.

Yes, he's got a lot going for him in life but in his interviews you can tell that it would have meant a lot to him to play for England. Instead a bunch of lazy hacks who couldn't care less about the Three Lions keep getting called up over and over again. He's no Rooney but he's far more worthy than Heskey or Carlton f'ing Cole. It can't be easy for him to sit at home and watch the "I played like shit, buy my book" brigade fail in every tournament.

I find that depressing.

[H. Pedersen]

Upson had been capped numerous times, plus had been around the England squad a lot. Cahill hadn't. Capello weighed it up and obviously opted (or gambled) on Upson. You could call that a mistake but hindsight is a wonderful thing and practically every England player was sh*t.

Nonsense. Every Bolton fan would have told you that Upson and Green would be disasters at World Cup level. No hindsight required.

[fozzy]

Question was asked, why would he pick southern jessies over better performing northerners

Cos the press is so heavily fcuking cockney biased

A poor game for the heavily supported Upson and its a bad day at the office

Select Cahill and it goes tits up, six weeks of reminders how good the latest up n coming lightweight cockney is

Errr, so Capello bases his selection on Monday's edition of Super Goals? Right ho.

As for hindsight - who would have predicted that Rooney would be so abysmal? We also lost Rio before he even kicked a ball.