Liverpool and the Hillsborough Anniversary

[fatshaft]

Spot on GG.

Of course the Liverpool game should be on the Sunday to help Chelsea have a better chance in the champions league.

Theres always one... Pedant.

No pedantry involved at all, I was 100% genuinely agreeing with you.

Chelsea Spurs should be the Saturday game and the Liverpool game should be on the Sunday irrespective of the date.

Other countries clear weeks for their teams to play champs league games, yet we seem to make it harder for ours......

Absoltue horseshit. How does Chelsea doing well affect other teams? Oh yes, that's right, they get more money with which to further subjugate the lesser clubs.

Will Bolton ever see a CL place? Highly, nay certainly, not, so wtf difference does Chelsea doing well make? Would you be proud if they won the CL? I can't comment becasue I'm not English, but I can assure you if the Tims or huns won it (or the UEFA cup) I would NOT be proud (though any other team I would almost certainly be pleased for them), so gtf with the 'help them' argument.

Chelsea progressing helps our UEFA coefficient which maintains the number of places in Europe we get (champions league and UEFA cup) now yes whether Chelsea proceed or not is not going to make a major difference to that....

And yes I couldn't care less how well Chelsea do.

But this is not about Bolton, or about being a fan. Its about the football authorities fecking up a clubs chance in Europe because they are absolutely clueless and because Liverpool refuse to play on a certain date.

In Portugal they've been known to cancel league games for their champions league teams in that week.

Our FA seem incapable of even coming up with a half satisfactory schedule to let Chelsea compete.

I don't care specifically about Chelsea, but were it us in any competition I would. And if the FA won't help Chelsea at all, then you can imagine what they'd do with us.

I mean not only do they have to play on the Sunday but the game is scheduled for 6 fecking PM. 6PM on a Sunday.

Had we beaten Spurs then we'd be heading down to Wembley for a Sunday evening game? What sort of utter shite is that?

Not only will they make Chelsea play Sunday Wednesday because of their incompetence and Liverpool's desire to mourn something ad infinitum, they'll also put the fixture as late as damn possible. Cos that makes sense!!!!!!!!!

Please explain what benefit this is for any team outwith the top half dozen in England?

[Andy Waller]

Anyone else like how the Koppites were all incensed over his apparent lack of respect for the sanctity of human life. Then issued a load of death threats?

[blurred]

As for the main theme, I don't really understand how one team can unilaterally refuse to play on a certain date sine die. I can certainly understand cancellation of a fixture because of some recent compelling circumstance but to allow it to continue indefinitely makes the league seem pretty Mickey Mouse to me - tails should not wag the dog. There is certainly enough time in a day to schedule a game and a memorial service if necessary.

I'm not sure it is a refusal - every time it has come up we've made a request not to play on a date if there was a workable solution, which the few times it has come up there has been (moving a game one day either side, or in this case having the Saturday rather than Sunday semi-final). Ultimately a club could refuse to move a fixture for it, or the FA/Premier League/UEFA could choose not to accommodate it (and the latter is the most likely in those trio to do so because their matchday calendars are much less flexible), but that hasn't happened yet.

[Gary the Enfield]

As for the main theme, I don't really understand how one team can unilaterally refuse to play on a certain date sine die. I can certainly understand cancellation of a fixture because of some recent compelling circumstance but to allow it to continue indefinitely makes the league seem pretty Mickey Mouse to me - tails should not wag the dog. There is certainly enough time in a day to schedule a game and a memorial service if necessary.

I'm not sure it is a refusal - every time it has come up we've made a request not to play on a date if there was a workable solution, which the few times it has come up there has been (moving a game one day either side, or in this case having the Saturday rather than Sunday semi-final). Ultimately a club could refuse to move a fixture for it, or the FA/Premier League/UEFA could choose not to accommodate it (and the latter is the most likely in those trio to do so because their matchday calendars are much less flexible), but that hasn't happened yet.

My God, can you imagine the wailing and the gnashing of teeth if someone did? I'm sorry Blurred but the outcry that would issue from self-pity city would carry on for the next 23 years.

[Jokers in White]

Anyone else like how the Koppites were all incensed over his apparent lack of respect for the sanctity of human life. Then issued a load of death threats?

I know There a bunch of tossers!

[Relentless09]

Are these liverpool fans not also the fans that sing about Munich ?

[bobo the clown]

Well, as predicted, the Chelsea fans weren't up for respecting the 23rd anniversary of Hillsborough in the highly relevant fixture v Spurs.

Now the two clubs will meet in the final.

That'll become rather tasty.

[blurred]

My God, can you imagine the wailing and the gnashing of teeth if someone did? I'm sorry Blurred but the outcry that would issue from self-pity city would carry on for the next 23 years.

If there was genuinely no workable solution then you'd have to just get on with it, but I fail to see what that situation would be and how any potential fixture clash couldn't reasonably be avoided. The only thing I can think of is if there was a confluence of an Easter weekend, Champions League quarter-finals and FA Cup replay(s), and perhaps even a few postponed PL games from a harsh winter. It only comes around on a matchday once every 4/5 years at most anyway, and sometimes longer than that.

[blurred]

Well, as predicted, the Chelsea fans weren't up for respecting the 23rd anniversary of Hillsborough in the highly relevant fixture v Spurs.

Now the two clubs will meet in the final.

That'll become rather tasty.

Chelsea try so desperately hard to have people hate them, bless them. I was there on Sunday and it was fairly disgraceful, I must say, given it was also a minute's silence for Piermario Morosini who'd died on the pitch the day before.

[BWFC_Insane]

Well, as predicted, the Chelsea fans weren't up for respecting the 23rd anniversary of Hillsborough in the highly relevant fixture v Spurs.

Now the two clubs will meet in the final.

That'll become rather tasty.

Chelsea try so desperately hard to have people hate them, bless them. I was there on Sunday and it was fairly disgraceful, I must say, given it was also a minute's silence for Piermario Morosini who'd died on the pitch the day before.

But the scousers succeed at that without even trying!

[blurred]

Excerpt from Steve Rotherham (Merseyside MP)'s reply to Alan Davies' piece in the Times, which I think is pretty spot on (there's some other waffle and bits in the longer piece that I don't agree with, but this sums it up quite well).

Let me make it absolutely clear so nobody can claim that I am excusing the over-the-top responses that he received (which some already have attempted to do). I do not condone the vitriolic content of tweets to Mr Davies and his family, when I argue that he got things disastrously wrong. I unequivocally condemn any threats of violence. Mr Davies has the right to free speech and to express his beliefs, however misguided they may be.

However, the families of the victims of Hillsborough have an absolute right to decide what is in the best interests of their loved ones lost in a tragedy that generates feelings which for many, go far beyond the normal grief associated with the loss of someone dear. There exists a palpable sense of injustice 23 years on. Very few individuals have had their grief played out on the national stage like that of the 96 families. They need no lessons on how to mourn their dead.

If, Mr Davies decided he did not wish to play a gig on the anniversary of his mother’s death, then I (for one) would respect that, just as he should respect other people’s wishes. Like him, I too have felt the pain of the death of my beloved mum, but neither she, nor Mrs Davies, was blamed for killing herself and 95 other people. Neither were the victims of a cover up and conspiracy that pervaded senior layers of the British establishment. None were the subject of banner front page headlines that claimed that their friends, and bystanders who had tried to save them, picked the pockets of dead people or urinated on Police officers. And we who are left, did not have to fight for over 2 decades to try to ensure that the cause of their deaths was correctly recorded, and that those responsible for the negligence that caused their demise were held accountable.

That is why Mr Davies and many, many others, simply just don’t get it.

They may now know the timeline of events due to the superb campaign by families and supporters to fight for the truth and full disclosure, but they do not fully appreciate what it has taken to get to where we are today. They do not understand the fortitude and steadfastness of fighting, what at times have seemed immovable political and legalistic, barriers to the truth, but which have been assailed one by one until there is, at long last, hope that the Hillsborough Independent Panel report will soon be published.

We have never claimed there is a hierarchy of pain associated with any tragedy. Every loss of life is most painful to those closest to bereavement; family, friends and relatives. It doesn’t mean that others cannot empathise with such loss, but they cannot either fully expect to feel the same physical pain as those directly affected.

And nobody is claiming that because it was a sporting disaster on an unimaginable scale, that this by itself magnifies that sense of loss. But that collective grief is real. It is manifested in the way in which our City commemorates Hillsborough. And in that respect, it is up to other Clubs, their supporters and especially the grieving relatives of those that perished at Ibrox, Valley Parade, Heysel or Munich, to decide how they best remember their own particular tragedy, in their own particular way.

I wouldn’t dream of commenting, advising or criticising them. To do so would be insensitive and ignorant.

[BWFC_Insane]

Excerpt from Steve Rotherham (Merseyside MP)'s reply to Alan Davies' piece in the Times, which I think is pretty spot on (there's some other waffle and bits in the longer piece that I don't agree with, but this sums it up quite well).

Let me make it absolutely clear so nobody can claim that I am excusing the over-the-top responses that he received (which some already have attempted to do). I do not condone the vitriolic content of tweets to Mr Davies and his family, when I argue that he got things disastrously wrong. I unequivocally condemn any threats of violence. Mr Davies has the right to free speech and to express his beliefs, however misguided they may be.

However, the families of the victims of Hillsborough have an absolute right to decide what is in the best interests of their loved ones lost in a tragedy that generates feelings which for many, go far beyond the normal grief associated with the loss of someone dear. There exists a palpable sense of injustice 23 years on. Very few individuals have had their grief played out on the national stage like that of the 96 families. They need no lessons on how to mourn their dead.

If, Mr Davies decided he did not wish to play a gig on the anniversary of his mother’s death, then I (for one) would respect that, just as he should respect other people’s wishes. Like him, I too have felt the pain of the death of my beloved mum, but neither she, nor Mrs Davies, was blamed for killing herself and 95 other people. Neither were the victims of a cover up and conspiracy that pervaded senior layers of the British establishment. None were the subject of banner front page headlines that claimed that their friends, and bystanders who had tried to save them, picked the pockets of dead people or urinated on Police officers. And we who are left, did not have to fight for over 2 decades to try to ensure that the cause of their deaths was correctly recorded, and that those responsible for the negligence that caused their demise were held accountable.

That is why Mr Davies and many, many others, simply just don’t get it.

They may now know the timeline of events due to the superb campaign by families and supporters to fight for the truth and full disclosure, but they do not fully appreciate what it has taken to get to where we are today. They do not understand the fortitude and steadfastness of fighting, what at times have seemed immovable political and legalistic, barriers to the truth, but which have been assailed one by one until there is, at long last, hope that the Hillsborough Independent Panel report will soon be published.

We have never claimed there is a hierarchy of pain associated with any tragedy. Every loss of life is most painful to those closest to bereavement; family, friends and relatives. It doesn’t mean that others cannot empathise with such loss, but they cannot either fully expect to feel the same physical pain as those directly affected.

And nobody is claiming that because it was a sporting disaster on an unimaginable scale, that this by itself magnifies that sense of loss. But that collective grief is real. It is manifested in the way in which our City commemorates Hillsborough. And in that respect, it is up to other Clubs, their supporters and especially the grieving relatives of those that perished at Ibrox, Valley Parade, Heysel or Munich, to decide how they best remember their own particular tragedy, in their own particular way.

I wouldn’t dream of commenting, advising or criticising them. To do so would be insensitive and ignorant.

In other words "we're self pity city we're special".

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Excerpt from Steve Rotherham (Merseyside MP)'s reply to Alan Davies' piece in the Times, which I think is pretty spot on (there's some other waffle and bits in the longer piece that I don't agree with, but this sums it up quite well).

Let me make it absolutely clear so nobody can claim that I am excusing the over-the-top responses that he received (which some already have attempted to do). I do not condone the vitriolic content of tweets to Mr Davies and his family, when I argue that he got things disastrously wrong. I unequivocally condemn any threats of violence. Mr Davies has the right to free speech and to express his beliefs, however misguided they may be.

However, the families of the victims of Hillsborough have an absolute right to decide what is in the best interests of their loved ones lost in a tragedy that generates feelings which for many, go far beyond the normal grief associated with the loss of someone dear. There exists a palpable sense of injustice 23 years on. Very few individuals have had their grief played out on the national stage like that of the 96 families. They need no lessons on how to mourn their dead.

If, Mr Davies decided he did not wish to play a gig on the anniversary of his mother’s death, then I (for one) would respect that, just as he should respect other people’s wishes. Like him, I too have felt the pain of the death of my beloved mum, but neither she, nor Mrs Davies, was blamed for killing herself and 95 other people. Neither were the victims of a cover up and conspiracy that pervaded senior layers of the British establishment. None were the subject of banner front page headlines that claimed that their friends, and bystanders who had tried to save them, picked the pockets of dead people or urinated on Police officers. And we who are left, did not have to fight for over 2 decades to try to ensure that the cause of their deaths was correctly recorded, and that those responsible for the negligence that caused their demise were held accountable.

That is why Mr Davies and many, many others, simply just don’t get it.

They may now know the timeline of events due to the superb campaign by families and supporters to fight for the truth and full disclosure, but they do not fully appreciate what it has taken to get to where we are today. They do not understand the fortitude and steadfastness of fighting, what at times have seemed immovable political and legalistic, barriers to the truth, but which have been assailed one by one until there is, at long last, hope that the Hillsborough Independent Panel report will soon be published.

We have never claimed there is a hierarchy of pain associated with any tragedy. Every loss of life is most painful to those closest to bereavement; family, friends and relatives. It doesn’t mean that others cannot empathise with such loss, but they cannot either fully expect to feel the same physical pain as those directly affected.

And nobody is claiming that because it was a sporting disaster on an unimaginable scale, that this by itself magnifies that sense of loss. But that collective grief is real. It is manifested in the way in which our City commemorates Hillsborough. And in that respect, it is up to other Clubs, their supporters and especially the grieving relatives of those that perished at Ibrox, Valley Parade, Heysel or Munich, to decide how they best remember their own particular tragedy, in their own particular way.

I wouldn’t dream of commenting, advising or criticising them. To do so would be insensitive and ignorant.

And this version cuts out the waffle you say?

How on earth is what Davies said 'disastrously' wrong - what 'disaster' followed his comments?

[bobo the clown]

He's in it for votes & there are few votes to be won in Liverpool by saying "look, it was awful, but we need ... as a group ... to move on."

It's a city which glories in it's woes, but gives no quarter to anyone who ever dares question it.

Fck 'em.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Well, quite.

[bobo the clown]

Too long ??

[Prufrock]

No-one sensible has a problem with the families remembering. Even people who think Scousers have a self-pity reflex (myself included) can see why as a city some sort of Hillsborough memorial is something people want to do. What so many don't understand is why Chelsea, with a key game coming up, should be put at a disadvantage because 'Liverpool don't want to play on that day'. How is it relevant?