good players, shite managers

[tripod]

There's loads of them about. I'll start us off with Bryan Robson

[Nicko58]

John Barnes

[boltonboris]

Roy Keane. Nat Lofthouse. There's hundreds.

[newcarsmell]

Owen Coyle...

..sorry didn't read the thread title properly

[Gail Platz]

Paul Ince

[H. Pedersen]

Alan Shearer.

[seanworth]

Most good players make crap managers. Same in most sports. The more naturally gifted the player is usually the crappier a manager he is. Sure there are exceptions but that's what they are, exceptions.

[Prufrock]

Or they are just different jobs with no causative link?

[H. Pedersen]

They say the reason that great players don't generally make great managers is because they have a hard time understanding and adjusting for the fact that a lesser player can't do the things they could do.

[Gooner Girl]

Tony Adams...

[Prufrock]

They say the reason that great players don't generally make great managers is because they have a hard time understanding and adjusting for the fact that a lesser player can't do the things they could do.

And it self-serving shite! If their approach to management is 'you lot go out there and do world class mental shit', then they haven't failed because the players can't do the things they can do, but coz they are rubbish at management. They played with lesser players, against lesser players, if they were so good they would have had an understanding of the game to realise when teams with lesser players were hard to beat and when they weren't.

If good player ought to mean good manager, then good manager ought to mean good player. If Mourinho is so good as a manager why didn't he make it as a player? All that organising, stick him at the back.

[bristolwanderer]

Brian Tinnion...

[bobo the clown]

They say the reason that great players don't generally make great managers is because they have a hard time understanding and adjusting for the fact that a lesser player can't do the things they could do.

The very reason Ray Wilkins once gave for not wishing to manage in the 3rd & 4th divisions. He said something along the lines of "I don't know what makes people at that level tick ... so I couldn't possibly manage them."

So add Ray Wilkins, Alan Ball, Bobby Charlton.

[Puskas]

Or they are just different jobs with no causative link?

This seems to cut to the heart of the matter. Most managers fail. Obviously - there is only a limited amount of success to be had (only one team can win the league...)

Most "great" players are given high profile managerial appointments. Given that most managers fail, one would expect them to fail, and do it in high profile fashion. That they do adds to the "great players don't make great managers" myth.

Then you look at, for instance, Cruyff. And are told "He's the exception that proves the rule" (as if that means anything, other than taking "proves" to mean "tests", as it apparently used to. But that's another matter.)

So what you'd need to do is find out what percentage of great players go on to become managers, and of those what percentage fail. Compare this with the number of mediocre players that go on to become managers and see if there's any difference. Maybe also considering the status of the clubs they were at, expectations, and so on.

[thebish]

Or they are just different jobs with no causative link?

Then you look at, for instance, Cruyff. And are told "He's the exception that proves the rule" (as if that means anything, other than taking "proves" to mean "tests", as it apparently used to. But that's another matter.)

but an important one!!! It's fecking irritating when people make a stupid statement - you point out an obvious exception that disproves the statement - and they declare "that's the exception that proves the rule" as if the very act of showing the "rule" is not a rule is proof that the rule IS a fecking rule... arggghhhhhh!!!!

anyway - carry on!

[RedStarBelgrade]

Mick "I was scared by nothing" McCarthy

[steviewander]

Roberto Di Matteo...

[truewhite15]

Roberto Di Matteo...

That'd be the same Roberto Di Matteo who won the Champions League last season, knocking out Barcelona on the way? Aye.

[steviewander]

Roberto Di Matteo...

That'd be the same Roberto Di Matteo who won the Champions League last season, knocking out Barcelona on the way? Aye.

I was joking!

[Prufrock]

Then that would imply you think he is a really good manager? He isn't that either.