Bolton Wanderers Forum The-Wanderer.co.uk

Sigh...We never fielded illegal players - so quite different to the Boro/Bury et al situations. In fact, there has never been a precedent for a case like this...

fozzy wrote:Sigh...We never fielded illegal players - so quite different to the Boro/Bury et al situations. In fact, there has never been a precedent for a case like this...

indeed. and now its been set and the punishment is ridiculously irrelevant to some clubs so the gates will be pretty much opened.

West Ham broke the rules. There is no dispute about that.

The committee judging the case said that such a transgression would normally result in a points deduction. Then they gave reasons why they weren't going to do this. Those reasons don't stand up.

They, like everyone else, assumed that West Ham were going to be relegated anyway, so it wouldn't make a difference.

The Premier League have got themselves into this mess with a mixture of cowardice and stupidity.

They did much the same with the Tim Howard affair involving Everton and Manchester United, claiming that a 'gentleman's agreement' between the two clubs, which prevented Howard playing against United was permissible.

hisroyalgingerness wrote:

Nozza wrote:More commonly known as "Massive club syndrome" HRG.

on that basis you can buy who you want next season

Or not.

However, we could try and buy the people Keane wants to buy.

Seeing as I have no influence in the transfer market.

We're only going to see an increase in shady dealings thanks to West Ham and the EPL. They've set the precedent that the punishment is far, far less than the rewards you reap for staying in the Premiership. A club would be stupid not to break the rules if it means £60 million pounds or whatever crazy money they figure you get.

At the start of the season, every team in the Premier League agreed to abide by the Independent Boards decision. Everyone. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's been handled well - either by the FAPL or the subsequent inaccurate reporting in the media - but the decision was made. Independently. Aside from this, everyone seems to forget that Sheffield Utd were ABSOLUTELY SHIT for the last part of the season. Still, they had the chance to redeem themselves on the final day. Just a point needed - at home - against one of the worst teams in the league. Just. One. Point. Could they do this? Could they feck.

Now, I don't recall ANY of the Famous Five bleating on about Tevez when we were hammered 4-0 (Charlton) and 3-0 (Sheffield Utd). Or the fact that Tevez didn't score till the home defeat against Spurs. But once relegation had kicked in, McCabe started telling all and sundry that an injustice had occured, and that West Ham should have points deducted. Tell you what, McCabe, I agree. Deduct us 1 point. No? Ok, how about 2? Still not enough? Oh, you want at least three, cos that would mean we would be level with you on points, but with an inferior goal difference. All of a sudden West Ham are down, the Blades are up, and Sean Bean cancels his trip to London.

Yes, we broke a rule, and we pleaded guilty. But West Ham stayed up. And it wasn't just because of Tevez. It was because of Noble's introduction. And Green's performance against Arsenal. And Collins' excellent form. And of course, Sheffield Utd being absolutely fecking rubbish.

Yer still a set of cheating bastards though aren't yer?

I'm with ped on this one. It will be too easy now for clubs to say. "oops, silly us. we fecked up there <with>. Sorry." knowing that they will reap more by doing it. The penalty should be harsh so it is a deterrant. The same should have gone with the Cashley Cole affair and other similar piss takes.

Yes Sheff Utd fecked up and I wont argue with that Fozzy. But the fact is that West Ham got away with it very lightly and the resons given by the independant panel or whatever they are weren't good enough. I'd even go so far as to say pathetic.

that is the problem I have with the whole sorry affair and I suspect many others do to. Whether it be West Ham, Man Utd or Bury. Hell, if we'd done it then we'd deserve to go down for it

fozzy wrote:At the start of the season, every team in the Premier League agreed to abide by the Independent Boards decision. Everyone. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's been handled well - either by the FAPL or the subsequent inaccurate reporting in the media - but the decision was made. Independently. Aside from this, everyone seems to forget that Sheffield Utd were ABSOLUTELY SHIT for the last part of the season. Still, they had the chance to redeem themselves on the final day. Just a point needed - at home - against one of the worst teams in the league. Just. One. Point. Could they do this? Could they feck.

Now, I don't recall ANY of the Famous Five bleating on about Tevez when we were hammered 4-0 (Charlton) and 3-0 (Sheffield Utd). Or the fact that Tevez didn't score till the home defeat against Spurs. But once relegation had kicked in, McCabe started telling all and sundry that an injustice had occured, and that West Ham should have points deducted. Tell you what, McCabe, I agree. Deduct us 1 point. No? Ok, how about 2? Still not enough? Oh, you want at least three, cos that would mean we would be level with you on points, but with an inferior goal difference. All of a sudden West Ham are down, the Blades are up, and Sean Bean cancels his trip to London.

Yes, we broke a rule, and we pleaded guilty. But West Ham stayed up. And it wasn't just because of Tevez. It was because of Noble's introduction. And Green's performance against Arsenal. And Collins' excellent form. And of course, Sheffield Utd being absolutely fecking rubbish.

I think you'll find my cor-blimey trouser wearing friend that we're not moaning about your cheating. We're moaning about the typical West Ham bias shown in your laughable punishment for said cheating.

If we'd have done it we would have gone down. Which I why I hope FIFA interject, they don't give a crap about the "academy of football."

FIFA? Really? You'd like that bastion of truth and integrity that is Seb Blatter, to investigate?

Now what about Bolton going down? How would that work, since you finished in the Top Ten? Point deductions are only being mentioned because of our close position to the Blades.

There was no precedent in a case like this, but £5.5m is a hell of a fine. Much more than Chelsea received in the Cashley case.

As for West Ham bias - well, look at the Man U/Everton keeper case - no punishment there, so we could add those teams to the list. And if Bolton are found not guilty of transfer irregularities* then we can stick them on it too.

* - if such a case were to occur.

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Now what about Bolton going down? How would that work, since you finished in the Top Ten? Point deductions are only being mentioned because of our close position to the Blades.

Wasn't your closeness to the drop the thing that saved you having points deducted?

shut your whinging for god's sake. You were found guilty of wilful and flagrant abuse of the rules and the independent commitee said they should deduct points themselves. It's as clear cut as you like it in that respect.

That aside, doesn't the fact that everyone wants the points deduction make you realise nobody actully likes West Ham outside your knuckle dragging mongalong fans and the media?

Now does us a favour and go bore someone else round your local pie and mash stall or somesuch.

fozzy wrote: Aside from this, everyone seems to forget that Sheffield Utd were ABSOLUTELY SHIT for the last part of the season. Still, they had the chance to redeem themselves on the final day. Just a point needed - at home - against one of the worst teams in the league. Just. One. Point. Could they do this? Could they feck.

Whooooaaah, stop right there. I had you down as being a decent, fair minded sort until this point. Without being rude, you were ABSOLUTELY SHIT for three quarters of the season. How does being ABSOLUTELY SHIT for the latter part of the season, or indeed failing to gain a point ont' last day of the season qualify Sheffield Utd for relegation before than you on that basis alone, which is as you suggest?

Now does us a favour and go bore someone else round your local pie and mash stall or somesuch.

C+. Must try harder, Commie. That was about as good as me going on about whippets and coal mines.

Bruce - that's exactly it. If you're in the bottom three come 5pm on the last day, then you deserve to go down. Regardless of your form across the season.

fozzy wrote:

Now does us a favour and go bore someone else round your local pie and mash stall or somesuch.

C+. Must try harder, Commie. That was about as good as me going on about whippets and coal mines.

Well it would be poor cos we're in Lancashire not Yorkshire. Try flat caps and black puddings instead....

White pudding is superior.

fozzy wrote:

Now does us a favour and go bore someone else round your local pie and mash stall or somesuch.

C+. Must try harder, Commie. That was about as good as me going on about whippets and coal mines.

Bruce - that's exactly it. If you're in the bottom three come 5pm on the last day, then you deserve to go down. Regardless of your form across the season.

Are you missing the point? If your illegally signed player Tevez hadn't scored all those goals in the last part of the season, Sheffield Uniteds performances would be irrelevant. Thus, they didn't deserve to go down because they were better than Watford, Charlton and would've been almost certainly better than a Tevez-less West Ham.

He wasn't/isn't an illegally signed player.

It's all 'ifs and buts thought, isn't it? If we hadn't signed Tevez, then there might not have been (alleged) dressing room unrest, and we might have had a better season overall.

fozzy wrote:Bruce - that's exactly it. If you're in the bottom three come 5pm on the last day, then you deserve to go down. Regardless of your form across the season.

Sorry, fella, it read to me as though what you were saying was that Sheffield deserved to go down simply by virtue of them finishing the season badly.