Bolton Wanderers Forum The-Wanderer.co.uk

Didn't get to see the match but just saw the score on the Beeb who went with the headline 'Lallana spares England blushes'. For a team we couldn't beat on neutral ground just 3 months ago, I'm at a loss why a 0-0 draw away would have been embarrassing

TANGODANCER wrote:Subtracting the divine right to win (which England have never really had since West Ham won the World Cup), a referee who seems to be setting new standards for international full-contact football and convenient vision, a blatant, mindless thug like Skrtel (which he's always been anyway) and a bunch of brawlers that wouldn't be out of place in a John Wayne film, all in all it wasn't bad. I was chuffed with the 90 minute effort and energy from our lads and it was great to see them challenging for every ball. Harry Kane should stop thinking about his hair, I'd replace Henderson with Barkley and if Wilshire weren't such an injury risk I'd have him in like a shot. The rest just need a bitmore time under Sam's management and we might actually be a force someday. I prefer Stones with Cahill and I'd disagree that Rose is rubbish. We still have enough good English players around to forge into a decent side. One up to Sam....

Barkley is the Rooney replacement. Not a central midfield player. I'd put Drinkwater in who is.

He's the only England manager past or present with 100% win rate.

BWFC_Insane wrote:

TANGODANCER wrote:Subtracting the divine right to win (which England have never really had since West Ham won the World Cup), a referee who seems to be setting new standards for international full-contact football and convenient vision, a blatant, mindless thug like Skrtel (which he's always been anyway) and a bunch of brawlers that wouldn't be out of place in a John Wayne film, all in all it wasn't bad. I was chuffed with the 90 minute effort and energy from our lads and it was great to see them challenging for every ball. Harry Kane should stop thinking about his hair, I'd replace Henderson with Barkley and if Wilshire weren't such an injury risk I'd have him in like a shot. The rest just need a bitmore time under Sam's management and we might actually be a force someday. I prefer Stones with Cahill and I'd disagree that Rose is rubbish. We still have enough good English players around to forge into a decent side. One up to Sam....

Barkley is the Rooney replacement. Not a central midfield player. I'd put Drinkwater in who is.

Barkley plays as atacking midfield for Everton. Rooney's role is more Paul Scholes and he's doing okay for me at being playmaker. He covers some fair ground, makes himself available and looks for the ball to distribute; far more useful than his previous role. Henderson, well, I'm not quite sure what his role is....

i don't get all the crap from the pundits - what did they expect?

There was a bloke on 606 prattling on about how poor Slovakia are, and how the likes of Germany and Spain would thrash them by at least 4 goals.
Conveniently ignoring that Slovakia have beaten both Spain and Germany in the last couple of years.

On that basis we set up for a clean sheet, and got it (no thanks to Danny Rose).
Skrtl gave us the chance to do better. Getting the winner in injury time was lucky, but sometimes you need the breaks.

We all know that Sam is the arch pragmatist.
He knows that at the moment he needs Rooney on his side as the dressing room leader. Hence the current love-in. But if he carries on like he did today, he will be retiring from England a year earlier than he has said.

Waddle was spouting his usual stuff about being set up differently and playing better in tournaments than in the qualifiers. They are nearly 2 years away (and we need to qualify first). That is 2 years to improve the team, and its tactics and to introduce emerging talent.

Job 1, in his first month was to beat the world no 24 team on their own patch.
Job done.

I'm surprised at people writing Rooney off. He had his time up front and scored some cracking goals but that role is over.not may players run around looking for the ball and he has the skills to do that and distribute i. He's a tough lad and you can't put a team of Theo Walcots up against the Skrtles and De Jongs of international football. Rose made one error, who doesn't? It doesn't make him a bad player and Clyne's still around isn't he? We're not amongst the elite of international football and I reckon we're playing better than for a while. Under Sam we can get better still.

TANGODANCER wrote:

BWFC_Insane wrote:

TANGODANCER wrote:Subtracting the divine right to win (which England have never really had since West Ham won the World Cup), a referee who seems to be setting new standards for international full-contact football and convenient vision, a blatant, mindless thug like Skrtel (which he's always been anyway) and a bunch of brawlers that wouldn't be out of place in a John Wayne film, all in all it wasn't bad. I was chuffed with the 90 minute effort and energy from our lads and it was great to see them challenging for every ball. Harry Kane should stop thinking about his hair, I'd replace Henderson with Barkley and if Wilshire weren't such an injury risk I'd have him in like a shot. The rest just need a bitmore time under Sam's management and we might actually be a force someday. I prefer Stones with Cahill and I'd disagree that Rose is rubbish. We still have enough good English players around to forge into a decent side. One up to Sam....

Barkley is the Rooney replacement. Not a central midfield player. I'd put Drinkwater in who is.

Barkley plays as atacking midfield for Everton. Rooney's role is more Paul Scholes and he's doing okay for me at being playmaker. He covers some fair ground, makes himself available and looks for the ball to distribute; far more useful than his previous role. Henderson, well, I'm not quite sure what his role is....

Notionally Rooney was the central attacking midfield player today until Alli came on.

Henderson and Dier the traditional midfield players or cover in front of the back four. Barkley isn't playing instead of either of them. That'd be Drinkwater, another midfield player.

TANGODANCER wrote:I'm surprised at people writing Rooney off. He had his time up front and scored some cracking goals but that role is over.not may players run around looking for the ball and he has the skills to do that and distribute i. He's a tough lad and you can't put a team of Theo Walcots up against the Skrtles and De Jongs of international football. Rose made one error, who doesn't? It doesn't make him a bad player and Clyne's still around isn't he? We're not amongst the elite of international football and I reckon we're playing better than for a while. Under Sam we can get better still.

I'd play Rooney up front. If he isn't good enough anymore to play up front or directly behind a front man then he's not worth a place. He does ok deeper but I'd disagree that he makes big contributions.

The point for me is that Kane isn't good enough. We don't look like scoring. Rooney has scored goals for England and him playing deep takes that out of his game. Hes not really good enough in a deeper role.

At international level, he's a long way short on his distribution, for me. Recycling it back to Cahill with a pass completion rate of 90% doesn't put him in the same bracket as Scholes. Up front, highest England goal scorer, but not really done it in finals. I'd move on from him.

Worthy4England wrote:At international level, he's a long way short on his distribution, for me. Recycling it back to Cahill with a pass completion rate of 90% doesn't put him in the same bracket as Scholes. Up front, highest England goal scorer, but not really done it in finals. I'd move on from him.

aye... indeed - we should never have taken him to the euros...

Good steady start for me, defiantly a banana skin fixture.
Thought we played okay, a few individual mistakes, like John Stones he just needs a bit more urgency sometimes when on the ball, no ones heads went down, everything chased, pleased for Sam.

Despite all, the team out there tonight, and their respective roles, were both chosen by Sam Allardyce. It's what he does, so I sure ain't going to argue he's wrong. He still has the horses for courses option and this was only game one for him. Time will tell.

Thought the first half was poor, v much same old same old, but second hand there was a lot more urgency, with sects clear chances and we should have won the game earlier.

It's going to take time though. It's only a few months since the Iceland shambles, and there are what, ten players maximum not in that squad you child make a decent case should have been picked. Won't happen overnight, and a decent start IMO.

Prufrock wrote:Thought the first half was poor, v much same old same old, but second hand there was a lot more urgency, with sects clear chances and we should have won the game earlier.

It's going to take time though. It's only a few months since the Iceland shambles, and there are what, ten players maximum not in that squad you child make a decent case should have been picked. Won't happen overnight, and a decent start IMO.

Media already after him following his admittedly rather odd Rooney comments. My disappointment so far is that he seems to be falling into the same trap as previous managers of fawning over players who have failed time and again for England.

It is his job to tell Rooney where to play. And if he doesn't follow instruction to crack skulls....

I was expecting a bit more no nonsense if I'm honest.

I agree with most of the last few posts - but I will say it again
Even before the Euros, the pundits were all saying (rightly) we are short of leaders

Sam needs Rooney as his leader on the park and in the dressing room.
So even though he is not at his best, he will be in the team (Think Nolan)

Over the next year, others will emerge ( Dier, Henderson, Kane, Stones ????).
Then Rooney will be judged on his form and contribution.
And will probably make way for Dele Alli, Vardy or even Andy Carroll

^^^ the trouble is bw that none of those you name are leaders either. To be fair I can't comment on Stones but the nearest you come to one is Henderson and he's never England class.

Think of Robson, Butcher, Adams, Terry (git that he is). Real leaders who get people to walk through walls. Rooney isn't that ... much as he genuinely tries to be ... but I guess he's as close as we have.

One needs to emerge.

... &, yes, Sam is bigging him up but must know he's lacking.

The issue for me isn't picking Rooney. In a way it would be odd for Allardyce having built his career working with ageing stars not to.

My issue is he picked a side that had the same "structure-less" feel to it that Hodgson's did. Forget who is picked. The system was the same unstructured, Rooney all over the place, Kane isolated, wide men static stuff that was poor in the Euros.

I was hoping to see a front 3. With Rooney on the left, and someone on the right, supporting Kane, getting up around him tucking in when the ball was on the other flank. Then Dier and Drinkwater in midfield with Lallana in front. Lallana seems to be the only player we have with much movement off the ball. Get him central and let him play in the attacking midfield role. I don't rate him much, but for now, give it a go.

At least there would be some structure there and it is what I expected Sam to do. Instead it was very much along the lines of "send 11 out and tell them to go and play", a ploy that failed in the Euro's and didn't do much better last night.

I really hope he doesn't get swallowed up by it all, he needs to remember what got him here for me, because that is what England need.

bobo the clown wrote:^^^ the trouble is bw that none of those you name are leaders either. To be fair I can't comment on Stones but the nearest you come to one is Henderson and he's never England class.

Think of Robson, Butcher, Adams, Terry (git that he is). Real leaders who get people to walk through walls. Rooney isn't that ... much as he genuinely tries to be ... but I guess he's as close as we have.

One needs to emerge.

... &, yes, Sam is bigging him up but must know he's lacking.

Sadly Bobo, I agree
None of them are leaders at the moment. That's the problem
But in another year or so?
I think Dier is the most likely to make it - and Henderson - but as you say he is not England class.

BWFC_Insane wrote:

TANGODANCER wrote:

BWFC_Insane wrote:

TANGODANCER wrote:Subtracting the divine right to win (which England have never really had since West Ham won the World Cup), a referee who seems to be setting new standards for international full-contact football and convenient vision, a blatant, mindless thug like Skrtel (which he's always been anyway) and a bunch of brawlers that wouldn't be out of place in a John Wayne film, all in all it wasn't bad. I was chuffed with the 90 minute effort and energy from our lads and it was great to see them challenging for every ball. Harry Kane should stop thinking about his hair, I'd replace Henderson with Barkley and if Wilshire weren't such an injury risk I'd have him in like a shot. The rest just need a bitmore time under Sam's management and we might actually be a force someday. I prefer Stones with Cahill and I'd disagree that Rose is rubbish. We still have enough good English players around to forge into a decent side. One up to Sam....

Barkley is the Rooney replacement. Not a central midfield player. I'd put Drinkwater in who is.

Barkley plays as atacking midfield for Everton. Rooney's role is more Paul Scholes and he's doing okay for me at being playmaker. He covers some fair ground, makes himself available and looks for the ball to distribute; far more useful than his previous role. Henderson, well, I'm not quite sure what his role is....

Notionally Rooney was the central attacking midfield player today until Alli came on.

Henderson and Dier the traditional midfield players or cover in front of the back four. Barkley isn't playing instead of either of them. That'd be Drinkwater, another midfield player.

He's dropping way to deep! If he was in the attacking midfield position then Obama is my dad! Every time I saw him pick the ball up there was one or 2 CM stood there who could've picked it up!


I was critical of Kane the first half but then I realised that he was isolated most of the time. He needed some support from Rooney! We need Rooney receiving the ball on the edge of the box not dropping back to our half to collect!

I love BSA, but when he said that he can't stop Rooney doing what he wants to!!!! Your the manager!

bw@bw wrote:

bobo the clown wrote:^^^ the trouble is bw that none of those you name are leaders either. To be fair I can't comment on Stones but the nearest you come to one is Henderson and he's never England class.

Think of Robson, Butcher, Adams, Terry (git that he is). Real leaders who get people to walk through walls. Rooney isn't that ... much as he genuinely tries to be ... but I guess he's as close as we have.

One needs to emerge.

... &, yes, Sam is bigging him up but must know he's lacking.

Sadly Bobo, I agree
None of them are leaders at the moment. That's the problem
But in another year or so?
I think Dier is the most likely to make it - and Henderson - but as you say he is not England class.

It's football. What does the Captain actually do on the pitch (I know they do some "ambassadorial" stuff off it)? It's not as if they're making bowling changes or switching people's fielding positions. They don't even have to pick whether to kick for touch or go for goal. All they've got to do is give it some "come on lads, FFS". It's hardly A level science.

How tricky can it be? Probably the most over-estimated captaincy job in sport (apart from the men's 100 relay). I reckon most folks would struggle to name United's previous three Captains without looking it up (I just looked it up) - yet it didn't seem to stop 'em winning owt.