Your England XI

[TANGODANCER]

18 Yellow cards in the Turkey game...

[boltonboris]

I don't think Tuesday was as bad as people are letting on. My main criticism is simply that we took long to get going. I think that's confidence more than anything. They've gone to looking scared to play and scared to give the ball away because of the way the supporters and media have been, more than anything.

Second half was good. Really put it on them but needed to take more risks later on against a team that eventually were too tired to counter attack.

As every team has experienced so far, the gap is closing between the top teams and 'lesser' teams, due to the globalisation of the sport, the quality of the coaching and similar facilities / techniques etc being available to pretty much everyone now.

Just going off that final game, I saw improvement and expect we'll be much better against Slovakia on Sunday. The French and Dutch have both told their fans to support the team, or f-off. We're not the only ones going through a little bit of pain. We'll come out of it.

[Prufrock]

Belgians had a similar kicking off too and De Bruyne was not happy.

I think the narrowing of the gap is partly improvements in the "smaller" countries, and also partly the way top level coaching now is all about systems and patterns etc where intentional managers just don't have the time. So you have a lot of top players looking lost at international level because their team mates aren't exactly where they expect them to be.

Was an interesting athletic article recently on how the question should no longer be whether a player is good enough to "step up" to international football, but whether they have the attributes to "step down".

[Worthy4England]

It is just godawful football to watch. We had 4 shots on target, but I'm sort of struggling on any that bought a world class save (it's probably counting Palmers effort which barely made it to the goal keeper. 4 the game before and 3 the first game. Was it better than last time out. Yes. Did it pick up in the second half - a bit, yes. Is it fundamentally boring. Fck me, yes.

When you take players, thinking and inspiration out, you're broadly left with "the same plan" on systems and patterns. Obviously you need some sort of system and some patterns, I'm not suggesting school yard kick-about, but fcuk me there's sod all creativity.

It's a shit butty of a product.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

18 Yellow cards in the Turkey game...

I watched Turkey-Czech (for all Georgia is a nice story, I can't bear watching Ronaldo and it was basically a dead rubber) and I tell you, brothers and sisters, it was one of the most enjoyable games I've ever watched. I was messaging mates to tell them.

It was absolutely ace.

Even the styles. Czechs brought on about five basketballers and went long; Turks continued to play passing, dribbling, attacking football. Even when a draw would send them through and a loss would send them out. And occasionally both teams would take a break from their footballing archetypes to swing haymakers at one another.

Probably the funnest international game I've seen since Portugal and Netherlands squared off in Nuremberg in 2006 for the right to face England, who'd squeezed through against Ecuador, in the next round. I was in Germany covering the tournament with mates and we sat in a bar watching astonished as these two renownedly stylish nations kicked absolute f**king lumps out of each other. First booking came after two minutes. Ronaldo was kicked out of the game and subbed in tears. Ended up with 12 different players – 7 Portuguese, 5 Dutch - being booked, of whom two on each side decided that wasn't enough and collected a second yellow each. Superb.

So yeah, Cze-Tur reminded me of that and was great fun. Especially tasty compared to the previous night's cold shitcake of England-Slovenia.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

As for England - they definitely improved with subs bringing urgency. Had to laugh when Gordon, finally brought on after days of us all begging, promptly sprinted the ball into touch - but his direct running asked a different question. Ironically he also played a better progressive pass than any of them, a lovely 30-yard daisycutter for Kane (I think) to move on to.

You know I'll defend Evattball but within reason. As well as being hamstrung by not using the left, England are playing too many sideways and backwards passes, not trusting their ability. Bellingham played well for 45 and has been absent since. We were better with him left and Foden at 10, but still not enough urgency. Kane's good but dead on his feet so we either need to rest/replace him or get runners past him. It's all being bogged down by picking about four players who want to be a No.10. Palmer does too but at least he went wide and took his man on.

Lucky half of the draw (although Italy lurk in the next round if they and we get over group-stage stuttering) and a favourable first knockout at least gives us some room to risk. Southgate's squad selection rubbished the idea he was too loyal (Hendo, Maguire, Rashford, Sterling) but he's still being conservative in tactics, selection and subs. He needs to realise his next loss is his last. From waistcoat to straitjacket...

[boltonboris]

Switzerland will beat Italy

But yeah, last nights Chechia (Chechya?) game was top. The best games have indeed been that 2nd or 3rd tier of teams going at eachother for the points they rarely take off the teams above them in the pecking order. That Calhanoglu goal was superb. Wonderful technique!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Switzerland will beat Italy

But yeah, last nights Chechia (Chechya?) game was top. The best games have indeed been that 2nd or 3rd tier of teams going at eachother for the points they rarely take off the teams above them in the pecking order. That Calhanoglu goal was superb. Wonderful technique!

Ooh yeah sweet as a nut, mate, outrageous.

I loved the equaliser too, especially as the ref allowed the sort of challenge that normally has goalkeepers complaining, and the Czech dude did a classic "Shall we stop fannying about and I'll just wallop the leather off it?"

Fans great too, both sets.

[Prufrock]

18 Yellow cards in the Turkey game...

I watched Turkey-Czech (for all Georgia is a nice story, I can't bear watching Ronaldo and it was basically a dead rubber) and I tell you, brothers and sisters, it was one of the most enjoyable games I've ever watched. I was messaging mates to tell them.

It was absolutely ace.

Even the styles. Czechs brought on about five basketballers and went long; Turks continued to play passing, dribbling, attacking football. Even when a draw would send them through and a loss would send them out. And occasionally both teams would take a break from their footballing archetypes to swing haymakers at one another.

Probably the funnest international game I've seen since Portugal and Netherlands squared off in Nuremberg in 2006 for the right to face England, who'd squeezed through against Ecuador, in the next round. I was in Germany covering the tournament with mates and we sat in a bar watching astonished as these two renownedly stylish nations kicked absolute f**king lumps out of each other. First booking came after two minutes. Ronaldo was kicked out of the game and subbed in tears. Ended up with 12 different players – 7 Portuguese, 5 Dutch - being booked, of whom two on each side decided that wasn't enough and collected a second yellow each. Superb.

So yeah, Cze-Tur reminded me of that and was great fun. Especially tasty compared to the previous night's cold shitcake of England-Slovenia.

Gutted I missed it after reading the report, and my mind jumped straight to Holland-Portugal too.

That's the one with the iconic picture of Gio Van Bronkhorst and Deco (at the time Barcelona team mates, but each sent off for opposing teams in this game) sat on the steps together watching the madness unfold.

[TANGODANCER]

We've had our own moments. Argentina and Rattin and co, that had Ramsey calling them "animals"...Happy days...not.

[Mar]

Foden getting time off for his newborn bodes an interesting conundrum for Southgate and may very well be the excuse he needs to put Foden on the bench and get Gordon wide left.

We all know the Bellingham Foden combo hasn't been working with Foden trying too hard at times. Seems like Bellingham and Foden are taking turns to perform.

I think Bellinghams not relishing the move into Fodens gaps and it's impacting his game. Seems a daft tactic to be fair as he's at the behest of Foden and Kane wandering around the pitch.

Maybe with Gordon on well have a better output going forward

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Well, the noises emerging are that Mainoo for Gallagher will be the only change.

Interesting note from an Oxford fan the other day on the Guardian liveblog. Said how they changed from an underperforming 4231 to a 433, with the two “free 8s” formerly having been a 10 and a winger. Obvious potential parallels with England there and I’d say it’s worth a go tomorrow, but with two caveats. One, Oxford’s 9 is a superb presser and Harry Kane isn’t. Two, the weakness of that system - as we found when we did it after promotion to this division - is that with only one holding midfielder, his central colleagues have to be very forward at coming backward. That’s never been Foden’s game and Bellingham (a free-role forward for his club) hasn’t exactly been diligent. Would we get swamped in transition?

[TANGODANCER]

Oh, dear, mama mia. The Swiss beat Italy 2-0, and it was no fluke. They played brilliantly and fully deserved the win.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Who do people want as the next England manager? I’m surprised to see the shortest odds are for Pochettino - i didn’t think the FA would “go foreign” again.

https://www.oddschecker.com/football/fo ... nt-manager

Next two on the list seem the main realistic contenders: Graham Potter and Eddie Howe. Potter I admire more than I like; I certainly think he’d have the tactical flexibility Southgate is accused of lacking. His Brighton team lacked goalscorers but you’d hope he could get a tune out of this squad. (As for Chelsea, if being thrown out of that madhouse makes you a bad manager then he’s in some fine company - Mourinho, Ancelotti, Scolari, Benitez, etc and so on).

Howe has impressed me at Newcastle by really improving players that most assumed he’d upgrade with the sheikh’s chequebook. Also committed to attacking football, which would help. Question is whether he would leave, but it seems PSR is forcing Newcastle to sell Gordon, Isak or both so it might be a good time to leave - plus of course a great honour, etc.

After that you’re into Lee Carsley, which I suppose would add to Boot Room continuity but is hardly likely to excite the public; Pep, Klopp and Jose, which is just “hardly likely”; Steve Holland, which might be disastrous. Speaks volumes that the joint fourth lowest odds for an Englishman is Carrick.

[BWFC_Insane]

Who do people want as the next England manager? I’m surprised to see the shortest odds are for Pochettino - i didn’t think the FA would “go foreign” again.

https://www.oddschecker.com/football/fo ... nt-manager

Next two on the list seem the main realistic contenders: Graham Potter and Eddie Howe. Potter I admire more than I like; I certainly think he’d have the tactical flexibility Southgate is accused of lacking. His Brighton team lacked goalscorers but you’d hope he could get a tune out of this squad. (As for Chelsea, if being thrown out of that madhouse makes you a bad manager then he’s in some fine company - Mourinho, Ancelotti, Scolari, Benitez, etc and so on).

Howe has impressed me at Newcastle by really improving players that most assumed he’d upgrade with the sheikh’s chequebook. Also committed to attacking football, which would help. Question is whether he would leave, but it seems PSR is forcing Newcastle to sell Gordon, Isak or both so it might be a good time to leave - plus of course a great honour, etc.

After that you’re into Lee Carsley, which I suppose would add to Boot Room continuity but is hardly likely to excite the public; Pep, Klopp and Jose, which is just “hardly likely”; Steve Holland, which might be disastrous. Speaks volumes that the joint fourth lowest odds for an Englishman is Carrick.

Reckon Evatt would do a good job. Already plays the same style of football and has experience of bottling the big games too. Natural successor to Southgate.

[Prufrock]

Lots of rumours Potter dropped out of the running of a lot of jobs post season, after the FA had a quiet work. Worry he'll overthink international football but he's got a better reckon that this cretin had.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Beginning to think we should go back-three against Switzerland.

Firstly, something needs to change fundamentally; no matter how nice it is to equalise in the 95th minute, if that's your first shot on target then you've largely failed.

Secondly, Switzerland actively wanted Italy to play a back four, because they knew with left-back Federico Dimarco injured, Spalletti would be forced to play a right-footed left-back (stop me if this is sounding familiar) in Matteo Darmian. They conceived and executed a pressing plan to box in Italy's defenders and stop them passing out (excuse me if this is Wembley flashback territory). Italy were forced into long low-percentage diags, lost the ball and lost the game. As manager Murat Yakin put it afterwards, “I knew that if the Italians came with a back four, we would destroy them. Then we would let them run. Dan [Ndoye] closed down the midfield. [Italy left-winger] El Shaarawy hardly saw a ball.”

So let's not play into their hands. But I also suspect wingbacks may minimise some of our problems and maximise some opportunities.

At the back, with Guehi suspended there's going to be disruption anyway. Choosing Konsa or possibly Gomez as LCB and Walker at RCB should allow Stones to step into midfield as he has done so notably for City this season. Having Walker on that side as insurance would also allow us to play Trent at RWB, and he should have someone to ping that diag to and finally stretch the play, what with Shaw (surely?!) able to play at least an hour. (If that's all he can manage, he can be replaced by Saka if we're losing, Gomez if not.)

Midfield's the big mystery. I've come round to the idea of playing Foden and Bellingham as 8s either side of Rice. I can hear the appeals for Wharton but it would be a huge call. Mainoo didn't do much wrong but is IMO expendable to get our best players on the pitch – and hopefully in a way they can function. Too many times we've had Foden and Bellingham facing away from goal; playing as 8s should have them facing up their oppos and hopefully playing off each other.

And that leaves two spaces up front, because Harry Kane is clearly struggling awfully. Toney did well when he came on and I would use him again in some way, but I would be very tempted to start Watkins - to chase down defenders, to offer runs for his team-mates to find. Switzerland have only lost once in 18 games. we need to ask a lot more questions - of them and of ourselves.

[Worthy4England]

I don't have us down as favourites for this, but we do have match-winners, including Kane - obviously having match winners doesn't necessarily equate to winning matches.

My largest and longest lasting complaint, is a broadly similar to watching the supers. Slow, lethargic, going nowhere, feck*. As you comment, Yakin will think about the game and us just rolling out the same pattern, I think could be fatal. There was an interesting YT vid from your buddies at 442 from the Slovenia game. It's entitled "Why you finally saw the REAL England (for about 2 minutes)" - I mean they hardly need to change the fcuking title.

The good news is, he has the best part of a full week to think about how he's going to combat what Switzerland do. Remember, that type of activity where you don't just say "double down on Plan A" - let's off-balance them from the get go - seems to be a thing of the past.

[TANGODANCER]

Despite all, it still had me up in the air when we equalised. No plastic fan me

That aside, Shakiri doesn't seem to be getting much time on. Has he been injured? He's always a worry.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I don't have us down as favourites for this, but we do have match-winners, including Kane - obviously having match winners doesn't necessarily equate to winning matches.

My largest and longest lasting complaint, is a broadly similar to watching the supers. Slow, lethargic, going nowhere, feck*. As you comment, Yakin will think about the game and us just rolling out the same pattern, I think could be fatal. There was an interesting YT vid from your buddies at 442 from the Slovenia game. It's entitled "Why you finally saw the REAL England (for about 2 minutes)" - I mean they hardly need to change the fcuking title.

The good news is, he has the best part of a full week to think about how he's going to combat what Switzerland do. Remember, that type of activity where you don't just say "double down on Plan A" - let's off-balance them from the get go - seems to be a thing of the past.

Apart from his relatability to the players, one of the things that made Terry Venables so great was his tactical flexbility. I've been lucky enough to write at length about Euro 96 so I know how much thought he put into things; the telling quote is “You have to find ways of playing to suit your players and beat your opponents. It's no good just developing a Plan A; you need to come up with B and C as well."

At Euro 96 he played an extraordinary number of different formations. In the opener against (ha!) Switzerland he started with a 'straight' 4-4-2 before switching to a 4-5-1. The formation against Scotland was depicted by the BBC as a 3-1-1-3-1-1 (Southgate behind Ince, Sheringham behind Shearer), which changed at half-time when Redknapp came on for Pearce and Southgate dropped into the back three. Then back to a 4-4-2 against the Dutch and the Spanish, before reverting to the back three against Germany.

Of course, the corollary to this is that if you faff about and lose, you're a tinkerman. But the main thing Southgate has to lose now is his reputation for timidity. If that's the way he's remembered after the unprecedented achievement of reaching four quarter-finals, it would be a great shame for him - but a greater shame for his country.