Bolton Wanderers Forum The-Wanderer.co.uk

There were a lot of reasons why the Hillsborough tragedy happened.

The main ones being the football violence of the 70's and 80's resulting in fencing and the poor layout of the Leppings Lane End of Hillsborough. In fact the football stadia at the time was very poor throughout the UK.

No one party was to blame but I will guarantee that this latest enquiry will find the police 100% culpable mainly due to them trying to hide their own mistakes.

As Bobo said, the fans killed at the front were the ones completely innocent.

Harry Genshaw wrote:Even the much criticized Taylor report exonerated the supporters.

Indeed - though it's amazing how often this point is lost.

Harry Genshaw wrote:Could have been any of us that day

Yes - given the way fans behaved in the 70s and 80s, it really could have been anyone attending football in that era.

People don't push at football matches now, but they did then.

mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:

Harry Genshaw wrote:Even the much criticized Taylor report exonerated the supporters.

Indeed - though it's amazing how often this point is lost.

Harry Genshaw wrote:Could have been any of us that day

Yes - given the way fans behaved in the 70s and 80s, it really could have been anyone attending football in that era.

People don't push at football matches now, but they did then.

Really?

Not one of my usual anti Liverpool rants, just showing what the Kop was like in the 1970 & into the 1980's. This example is quite typical of how it was then. The question is how there weren't more incidents. At Anfield there was a low wall at around shoulder height and so the front rows were barely above pitch level. Anyone near the front would be horribly squashed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drNjjzbVf9U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watch after 10 seconds when the goal is scored. The crowd (both ends) is utterly sardine packed. They sway forward at the goal. It happened every match. I recall someone back then saying that the Kop has less crush barriers to facilitate this swaying. It was all part of the fun back then.

Bloody scary seeing it now though.

Surely anyone with common sense would avoid standing near the front?

bwfcdan94 wrote:Surely anyone with common sense would avoid standing near the front?

If you were young or small it was the only place you would get a view.

malcd1 wrote:

bwfcdan94 wrote:Surely anyone with common sense would avoid standing near the front?

If you were young or small it was the only place you would get a view.

They were premium spots to be honest.

... & it's a fact that someone will be at the front. It's a relative matter and in a full ground (& by God were they full) that means being at the wall point.

Harry Genshaw wrote:I dont get why that hatred blinds them to things like evidence for example, when it comes to Hillsborough. Even the much criticized Taylor report exonerated the supporters.
Could have been any of us that day

Yeah, but it wasn't. It was them. Again.

Maybe Heysel was crumbling. Maybe policing and infrastructure in British stadiums in the 1980's was dangerous. But somehow these only became disasters once LFC got involved.

H. Pedersen wrote:

Harry Genshaw wrote:I dont get why that hatred blinds them to things like evidence for example, when it comes to Hillsborough. Even the much criticized Taylor report exonerated the supporters.
Could have been any of us that day

Yeah, but it wasn't. It was them. Again.

Maybe Heysel was crumbling. Maybe policing and infrastructure in British stadiums in the 1980's was dangerous. But somehow these only became disasters once LFC got involved.

Odd that. I thought it was Lincoln who were at Bradford that day.

far be it from me to stand in solidarity with Tory MP for the Wirral Esther McVey... BUT - apparently there's a witch-hunt on because she (or one of her staff) tweeted during the Hillsborough Memorial Service... not (I believe) FROM the service - as far as i know she wasn't there - but during it - as if there was some expectation that the entire UK would come to some kind of respectful silence and watch it on TV leaving the rest of their lives on hold....

BONKERS!!

thebish wrote:far be it from me to stand in solidarity with Tory MP for the Wirral Esther McVey... BUT - apparently there's a witch-hunt on because she (or one of her staff) tweeted during the Hillsborough Memorial Service... not (I believe) FROM the service - as far as i know she wasn't there - but during it - as if there was some expectation that the entire UK would come to some kind of respectful silence and watch it on TV leaving the rest of their lives on hold....

BONKERS!!

Totally.

bobo the clown wrote:Not one of my usual anti Liverpool rants, just showing what the Kop was like in the 1970 & into the 1980's. This example is quite typical of how it was then. The question is how there weren't more incidents. At Anfield there was a low wall at around shoulder height and so the front rows were barely above pitch level. Anyone near the front would be horribly squashed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drNjjzbVf9U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watch after 10 seconds when the goal is scored. The crowd (both ends) is utterly sardine packed. They sway forward at the goal. It happened every match. I recall someone back then saying that the Kop has less crush barriers to facilitate this swaying. It was all part of the fun back then.

Bloody scary seeing it now though.

I remember going to watch Liverpool vs United in the early 80s with my Dad and sister. We stood about half way up the Kop and arrived early enough to get a spot just above a crash barrier. The crowd grew and the game started. Within the first 10 minutes or so, the usual surging started and we got pushed hard up against the barrier. It was really scary.

In an attempt to protect us, my Dad stood behind me and my sister and wrapped his arms around us and braced them in a locked position against the barrier. This worked to some extent, but even he (at the time being a very fit and strong builder) was struggling to hold back the bodies pushing against us.

During a quiet spell, we looked around to see that whilst the crowd was large, it wasn't packed like sardines and that those behind us had no reason why they couldn't simply maintain their position rather than surging forward and risking injuring us.

Consequently, at the next surge, my usually mild mannered Dad turned around and said to the bloke pushing us forward that "if you push me again, I'll crush you like a wasp". The bloke looked back at my Dad with a look of shock on his face and told those around him that this bloke didn't want to be pushed. After that, the game went on and we weren't subjected to any more pushing.

I'm not saying that the pushing and surging was all voluntary, but I'm sure there was an element of it being avoidable. No doubt some saw it as being part of going to the match and didn't appreciate that by initiating the surging, they could actually be injuring someone lower down.

This is purely my reflection on being caught up in a very mild football related crush. My sympathies go out to anyone involved in the Hillsborough disaster. Dreadful, absolutely dreadful.

thebish wrote:far be it from me to stand in solidarity with Tory MP for the Wirral Esther McVey... BUT - apparently there's a witch-hunt on because she (or one of her staff) tweeted during the Hillsborough Memorial Service... not (I believe) FROM the service - as far as i know she wasn't there - but during it - as if there was some expectation that the entire UK would come to some kind of respectful silence and watch it on TV leaving the rest of their lives on hold....

BONKERS!!

I realise I'm pissing in the wind here, but perhaps when someone feels the need to indulge in twitter diarrhetics, perhaps they should just shut the f*ck up and not burden the rest of us with their watery brain-farts?

Lord Kangana wrote:

thebish wrote:far be it from me to stand in solidarity with Tory MP for the Wirral Esther McVey... BUT - apparently there's a witch-hunt on because she (or one of her staff) tweeted during the Hillsborough Memorial Service... not (I believe) FROM the service - as far as i know she wasn't there - but during it - as if there was some expectation that the entire UK would come to some kind of respectful silence and watch it on TV leaving the rest of their lives on hold....

BONKERS!!

I realise I'm pissing in the wind here, but perhaps when someone feels the need to indulge in twitter diarrhetics, perhaps they should just shut the f*ck up and not burden the rest of us with their watery brain-farts?

well - yes - that's true - but it's equally true whether or not it is done while the Hillsborough memorial service happens to be going on somewhere else!

Bruce Rioja wrote:

Well done Bruce. I made the point to our kid yesterday that nobody wanted to see masses of Liverpool fans convicted for the murders they caused at Heysal.

thebish wrote:far be it from me to stand in solidarity with Tory MP for the Wirral Esther McVey... BUT - apparently there's a witch-hunt on because she (or one of her staff) tweeted during the Hillsborough Memorial Service... not (I believe) FROM the service - as far as i know she wasn't there - but during it - as if there was some expectation that the entire UK would come to some kind of respectful silence and watch it on TV leaving the rest of their lives on hold....

BONKERS!!

But that is exactly what they want, the whole world to stop because Liverpool is the only football club ion the land that matters and the only city that matters. Did I mention how Scoucers have really been badly treated over the years.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Moving stuff, but how does it help the inquest do the job it's been asked to do?

Does it hinder it?

Lord Kangana wrote:Does it hinder it?

Yes - by definition, the time given oven to this sort of thing is not available to answer the questions the inquest is supposed to answer.