New England Manager

[a1]

He isn't an England candidate, and in reality probably never really should have been.

thats wack , exboss would be the ideal candidate , he's got all his american sabermetrics science stuff and a system which people would fit into , this would work no matter how 'good' england players are , thus we have a batch of good players we win , we have a bunch of shit players we still win ..

thats how these small countries like croatia do it- they have a system - people fit the system - they win ..

just coz newcastles got tools for fans and bighead tools for players doesnt mean he's wrong ..

he's got the whole of the country to pick from and 'problems' with club teams arent there .. someone falls out with him coz he hates being the target man (owen? defoe? ) he picks davies instead , solved .. someones injured he picks anyone else in the country ..

if he'dve got the job when steve got it we'd be in this euro2008 thing now .. and wouldve bin in an easier world cup qualyfing group ..

[BWFC_Insane]

He isn't an England candidate, and in reality probably never really should have been.

thats wack , exboss would be the ideal candidate , he's got all his american sabermetrics science stuff and a system which people would fit into , this would work no matter how 'good' england players are , thus we have a batch of good players we win , we have a bunch of shit players we still win ..

thats how these small countries like croatia do it- they have a system - people fit the system - they win ..

just coz newcastles got tools for fans and bighead tools for players doesnt mean he's wrong ..

he's got the whole of the country to pick from and 'problems' with club teams arent there .. someone falls out with him coz he hates being the target man (owen? defoe? ) he picks davies instead , solved .. someones injured he picks anyone else in the country ..

if he'dve got the job when steve got it we'd be in this euro2008 thing now .. and wouldve bin in an easier world cup qualyfing group ..

Doesn't work like that. Allardyce wouldn't have the respect of the players. He doesn't have the respect of the Newcastle players by all accounts.

The players for England are big time Charlies.

Its all very well saying Allardyce could pick to a system (something I agree that needs to happen) BUT he'd get massacred by the press for his tactics and systems. Then it'd be the same situation all over again.

[CrazyHorse]

He isn't an England candidate, and in reality probably never really should have been.

thats wack , exboss would be the ideal candidate , he's got all his american sabermetrics science stuff and a system which people would fit into , this would work no matter how 'good' england players are , thus we have a batch of good players we win , we have a bunch of shit players we still win ..

thats how these small countries like croatia do it- they have a system - people fit the system - they win ..

just coz newcastles got tools for fans and bighead tools for players doesnt mean he's wrong ..

he's got the whole of the country to pick from and 'problems' with club teams arent there .. someone falls out with him coz he hates being the target man (owen? defoe? ) he picks davies instead , solved .. someones injured he picks anyone else in the country ..

if he'dve got the job when steve got it we'd be in this euro2008 thing now .. and wouldve bin in an easier world cup qualyfing group ..

Doesn't work like that. Allardyce wouldn't have the respect of the players. He doesn't have the respect of the Newcastle players by all accounts.

The players for England are big time Charlies.

Its all very well saying Allardyce could pick to a system (something I agree that needs to happen) BUT he'd get massacred by the press for his tactics and systems. Then it'd be the same situation all over again.

See I agree with A1. Someone like fatboy would be ideal to bring the 'big time charlies' down a peg or two - something he can't do a Newcastle because he's only got a handful of players to pick from.

[BWFC_Insane]

He isn't an England candidate, and in reality probably never really should have been.

thats wack , exboss would be the ideal candidate , he's got all his american sabermetrics science stuff and a system which people would fit into , this would work no matter how 'good' england players are , thus we have a batch of good players we win , we have a bunch of shit players we still win ..

thats how these small countries like croatia do it- they have a system - people fit the system - they win ..

just coz newcastles got tools for fans and bighead tools for players doesnt mean he's wrong ..

he's got the whole of the country to pick from and 'problems' with club teams arent there .. someone falls out with him coz he hates being the target man (owen? defoe? ) he picks davies instead , solved .. someones injured he picks anyone else in the country ..

if he'dve got the job when steve got it we'd be in this euro2008 thing now .. and wouldve bin in an easier world cup qualyfing group ..

Doesn't work like that. Allardyce wouldn't have the respect of the players. He doesn't have the respect of the Newcastle players by all accounts.

The players for England are big time Charlies.

Its all very well saying Allardyce could pick to a system (something I agree that needs to happen) BUT he'd get massacred by the press for his tactics and systems. Then it'd be the same situation all over again.

See I agree with A1. Someone like fatboy would be ideal to bring the 'big time charlies' down a peg or two - something he can't do a Newcastle because he's only got a handful of players to pick from.

Why though? Sam has become a big time charlie himself. Helicopter in to St James'? Purrrrlease.

But aside from that. If the likes of Owen, Milner, Taylor think he's not that good, then what will the rest of the England squad think?

He's won less than McClaren as a manager. He might have a lot of good ideas and innovations but the players have to buy into them, and when you only see them for a week every 2 or 3 months, thats going to be hard to achieve. At the end of the day it all comes down to getting them performing on the pitch. And if I'm honest I don't think Allardyce would manage that.

Mourinho is the man as he'll pick a system, pick players for it, and has the bottle, nerve, charisma AND past record to suggest he will be his own man.

[Lord Kangana]

He isn't an England candidate, and in reality probably never really should have been.

thats wack , exboss would be the ideal candidate , he's got all his american sabermetrics science stuff and a system which people would fit into , this would work no matter how 'good' england players are , thus we have a batch of good players we win , we have a bunch of shit players we still win ..

thats how these small countries like croatia do it- they have a system - people fit the system - they win ..

just coz newcastles got tools for fans and bighead tools for players doesnt mean he's wrong ..

he's got the whole of the country to pick from and 'problems' with club teams arent there .. someone falls out with him coz he hates being the target man (owen? defoe? ) he picks davies instead , solved .. someones injured he picks anyone else in the country ..

if he'dve got the job when steve got it we'd be in this euro2008 thing now .. and wouldve bin in an easier world cup qualyfing group ..

Doesn't work like that. Allardyce wouldn't have the respect of the players. He doesn't have the respect of the Newcastle players by all accounts.

The players for England are big time Charlies.

Its all very well saying Allardyce could pick to a system (something I agree that needs to happen) BUT he'd get massacred by the press for his tactics and systems. Then it'd be the same situation all over again.

See I agree with A1. Someone like fatboy would be ideal to bring the 'big time charlies' down a peg or two - something he can't do a Newcastle because he's only got a handful of players to pick from.

Plus he has to compete with the 'Greatest fans in the world' calling for his head about 20 seconds after his helicopter landed.

Or, as one Barcode on 606 bleated - "We have a different set of expectations up here"

To which my dad quipped "What? Unrealistic ones?"

Allardyce is exactly the kind of guy to organise the whole set-up, top to bottom(or root and branch as the FA put it.) Which is something MoNeill has said he wouldn't do, he only wants the first team.

[BWFC_Insane]

He isn't an England candidate, and in reality probably never really should have been.

thats wack , exboss would be the ideal candidate , he's got all his american sabermetrics science stuff and a system which people would fit into , this would work no matter how 'good' england players are , thus we have a batch of good players we win , we have a bunch of shit players we still win ..

thats how these small countries like croatia do it- they have a system - people fit the system - they win ..

just coz newcastles got tools for fans and bighead tools for players doesnt mean he's wrong ..

he's got the whole of the country to pick from and 'problems' with club teams arent there .. someone falls out with him coz he hates being the target man (owen? defoe? ) he picks davies instead , solved .. someones injured he picks anyone else in the country ..

if he'dve got the job when steve got it we'd be in this euro2008 thing now .. and wouldve bin in an easier world cup qualyfing group ..

Doesn't work like that. Allardyce wouldn't have the respect of the players. He doesn't have the respect of the Newcastle players by all accounts.

The players for England are big time Charlies.

Its all very well saying Allardyce could pick to a system (something I agree that needs to happen) BUT he'd get massacred by the press for his tactics and systems. Then it'd be the same situation all over again.

See I agree with A1. Someone like fatboy would be ideal to bring the 'big time charlies' down a peg or two - something he can't do a Newcastle because he's only got a handful of players to pick from.

Plus he has to compete with the 'Greatest fans in the world' calling for his head about 20 seconds after his helicopter landed.

Or, as one Barcode on 606 bleated - "We have a different set of expectations up here"

To which my dad quipped "What? Unrealistic ones?"

Allardyce is exactly the kind of guy to organise the whole set-up, top to bottom(or root and branch as the FA put it.) Which is something MoNeill has said he wouldn't do, he only wants the first team.

Again in an ideal world that would be great, but the England manager is responsible for one thing and one thing only, results of the England team.

It would be all very well Allardyce trying to sort the mess that is English football out, but unless he achieved results he'd be in trouble. Think Allardyce is a club manager not an international one.

Thats not being harsh, I expect that Fergie is also better suited to club management than internationals.

[a1]

Why though? Sam has become a big time charlie himself. Helicopter in to St James'? Purrrrlease..

back door of saint james's under a blanket into a waiting securicor armoured van out?

[H. Pedersen]

See I agree with A1. Someone like fatboy would be ideal to bring the 'big time charlies' down a peg or two - something he can't do a Newcastle because he's only got a handful of players to pick from.

When did he ever do that at Bolton? He never made significant changes to the squad or system here even when we were losing 6 in a row. He left guys like Borgetti, Vaz Te, and Adranik on the bench while his favored XI coughed and sputtered to the finish line. Why would he be any different from Sven and McClaren? The Sammy Lee affair would seem to indicate Allardyce fostered the same "clique" mentality at Bolton as they did for England.

[CrazyHorse]

See I agree with A1. Someone like fatboy would be ideal to bring the 'big time charlies' down a peg or two - something he can't do a Newcastle because he's only got a handful of players to pick from.

When did he ever do that at Bolton? He never made significant changes to the squad or system here even when we were losing 6 in a row. He left guys like Borgetti, Vaz Te, and Adranik on the bench while his favored XI coughed and sputtered to the finish line. Why would he be any different from Sven and McClaren? The Sammy Lee affair would seem to indicate Allardyce fostered the same "clique" mentality at Bolton as they did for England.

You've misunderstood the point.
I'm talking about him getting the respect of the players; you're talking about him playing the same old clique week in, week out.

[H. Pedersen]

But the only way he can "bring them down a peg or two" is to drop them. He hasn't shown the capacity to do that at Bolton. Given what's going on at Newcastle, I also doubt he'd be able to earn their respect.

[a1]

But the only way he can "bring them down a peg or two" is to drop them. He hasn't shown the capacity to do that at Bolton. Given what's going on at Newcastle, I also doubt he'd be able to earn their respect.

keron dyer and scott parker didnt hang around long when he went there , and dont know what that sez , but at least being fit for longer than a week would matter on his "players for england " checklist..

thats one reason why , i think, he didnt get the job when steve did..

..comfy players would be moanin'

"if i have to train all day , i wont have enough time left in the day to bang my hanger on hareem of whores"

"if i have to train all day , there wont be enuff hours left in a day to lose £250k playing texas no limit holdem to the reserve goalkeeper who doesnt even play for his clubs first team"

etc

note that when bwfc had mr. lee his training methods were moaned about by players like fat nolan for not being upto exbosses standards ..

maybe nolan is good enough for england abut his face wouldnt fit the lazy arsed clique . whereas with ricketts they spun his head after 10 minutes ..

they should get jabbafatgut as manager but they wont .. Team €ngland will be shit for another 8 year ..

serves 'em reet ..

[H. Pedersen]

But isn't the fitness of the players more dependent on the day-to-day training at their clubs? Apart from the fitness aspect (which seems to be largely inapplicable for England), Allardyce's greatest strength at Bolton was searching the globe for bargain players who suited his system. That's the exact opposite of what he would have to do for England, where he has a limited talent pool and has to draw up a formation and tactics that best suits that group of players. His tactical inflexibility and inability to make impact substitutions would be ruthlessly exposed.

[Tombwfc]

I agree with HP, Allardyces strength is centered around him picking players that buy into his methods. He was able to do that here by basically starting from scratch and finding foreigners.

At England he doesn't have that luxury, as we have so few decent players that it is vital for him to get the good ones onside. Thats the only way any manager is going to be succesful with that team. If he doesn't, we'll have clowns like Lescott and Campbell bumbling about in white shirts.

[Lord Kangana]

I agree with HP, Allardyces strength is centered around him picking players that buy into his methods. He was able to do that here by basically starting from scratch and finding foreigners.

At England he doesn't have that luxury, as we have so few decent players that it is vital for him to get the good ones onside. Thats the only way any manager is going to be succesful with that team. If he doesn't, we'll have clowns like Lescott and Campbell bumbling about in white shirts.

Erm.....er.....ah......forgive me for asking, but

Don't we have that anyway?

[Tombwfc]

I agree with HP, Allardyces strength is centered around him picking players that buy into his methods. He was able to do that here by basically starting from scratch and finding foreigners.

At England he doesn't have that luxury, as we have so few decent players that it is vital for him to get the good ones onside. Thats the only way any manager is going to be succesful with that team. If he doesn't, we'll have clowns like Lescott and Campbell bumbling about in white shirts.

Erm.....er.....ah......forgive me for asking, but

Don't we have that anyway? :conf:

Yeah, exactly. If Big Sam go's in and his, marmite-like methods don't rub the likes of Terry and Ferdinand up too well, thats all he's got to replace them with.

[a1]

Yeah, exactly. If Big Sam go's in and his, marmite-like methods don't rub the likes of Terry and Ferdinand up too well, thats all he's got to replace them with.

so?

thats the point.. dicks in there comfort zone earning $$$ weather we win or lose Comfy as owt Clique $$$

boot them out and get lescott etc in at least he might be arsed , if we lose what difference does it make? ferdy and terry didnt qualify or win enough matches either ..

if you boot out lazy bastards they cant earn the cashay (sp?) playing for england fc gives them ..

being held to ransom by a set of dicks that arent arsed or lazy and evidently not good enough anyway? feck that..

ask yourself why is davies a cult figure at bwfc ? i know why i like him and is not coz hes a member of micheal owens card school ..

[Tombwfc]

The English public, rightly or wrongly, demand us to be competitive. We'll not be that with the likes of Lescott. The point isn't to let Ferdinand and Terry waltz around and pick up their paycheck, it's to find a manager who can motivate them enough to reproduce their club form on the international stage. I don't think Allardyce can do that.

[Lord Kangana]

I agree with HP, Allardyces strength is centered around him picking players that buy into his methods. He was able to do that here by basically starting from scratch and finding foreigners.

At England he doesn't have that luxury, as we have so few decent players that it is vital for him to get the good ones onside. Thats the only way any manager is going to be succesful with that team. If he doesn't, we'll have clowns like Lescott and Campbell bumbling about in white shirts.

Erm.....er.....ah......forgive me for asking, but

Don't we have that anyway?

Yeah, exactly. If Big Sam go's in and his, marmite-like methods don't rub the likes of Terry and Ferdinand up too well, thats all he's got to replace them with.

Sorry, I didn't put that quite how I wanted to.

What I meant was whoever takes McLarens place has to use them anyway - Ferdinand and Terry are bound to get injured at some stage (and I don't rate either that highly anyway), so whoever comes in is going to have to use those 2 'clowns'.

I sill think Sam would be good for the FA as a whole - to shake them up a bit and implement long term plans, as a sort of 'director of football' - with maybe a 'head coach' looking after the first team (England), whilst he sorted out the whole rotten mess from under 5's up,and shook up those on a cushty number who are doing nothing to prevent the malaise in our game
- organising is his strength.

[H. Pedersen]

whilst he sorted out the whole rotten mess from under 5's up

Because if there's one thing Allardyce knows, it's how to handle young talent. Just ask Vaz Te, Augustyn, Fojut, Sinclair . . .

I'm thinking there is some selective recollection going on in this thread . . .

[Lord Kangana]

whilst he sorted out the whole rotten mess from under 5's up

Because if there's one thing Allardyce knows, it's how to handle young talent. Just ask Vaz Te, Augustyn, Fojut, Sinclair . . .

I'm thinking there is some selective recollection going on in this thread . . .

Nolan, Hunt, O'Brien...

Has it ever occurred to anyone that the Wanderers have 12th choice on any available talent, and the fact that we have 3 players from our youth team regularly playing in the prem is a ringing endorsement of our youth set-up.

Not only that, but there are dozens of young professionals from our club plying their trade in the lower leagues (do I have to name them all?), far more than were ever produced under Rioch or Todd, and for a club of our stature, without the advantages of big club status, thats basically amazing.

Besides, you don't actually think that Allardyce would be teaching under 5's, do you?

As I re-iterate, his main strength is organisation, he would the kind of guy who be able to pick the appropriate people to undertake the tasks of implementing a root-and-branch change throughout the whole structure, a supremo if you will - its a model that works very well on the continent.