England v Damn Yankees

[Bruce Rioja]

Think a lot of the apathy about our national side came about from the realistion that Britannia no longer rules the waves, not even the Mexican versions. Maybe we needed a short sharp shock (or was that a long painful toothache during the previous manager reigns?) Whatever it was, we got it during the exit from the current Euro campaign.

Granted, I am an outsider, but to me England just seems like an episode of Dream Team. Football is just an excuse for a bunch of gossip, drama, and backstabbing. Weeks of build-up, speculation, debate, argument, breaking news, headlines, feature articles, rumors . . . all in service of an extremely workmanlike performance against a team that didn't play very well at all. You can only handle so many games like that before you get burned out.

What's Dream Team?

[White Army]

Think a lot of the apathy about our national side came about from the realistion that Britannia no longer rules the waves, not even the Mexican versions. Maybe we needed a short sharp shock (or was that a long painful toothache during the previous manager reigns?) Whatever it was, we got it during the exit from the current Euro campaign.

Maybe now, under Fiery Fabio we'll start again and rebuild some pride as well as a team worthy of support. I'm like the rest, I wail and moan about the side but never miss a game but, come the next World Cup we're going to have to do some fighting to regain our credibility as a top nation. Right now, as Euro spectators, it's going to be awful hard to realise that we must never again take our status for granted. Just like our own lot, it's onward and upward with everything to lose.

Some of it is undoubtedly what you've said TD, but tbh we have missed out on major tournaments plenty of times before '72, '74, '76, '78, '84, 94'. We failed to qualify for all of these so we should really be used to it by now.

As you know i sometimes go on another forum and the lads on there are always having a go about the English thinking they have a divine right to win any tournament. I simply tell them it's not true, watching England is like watching Bolton, you WANT them to win everything but it's not that much of a shock when they don't!

The only people that think England will win a tournament are the ones who believe the bullshit spouted by the tabloids.

As a sidenote i think that the more players we fill our best league with from foreign countries will always and has always added to the demise of the national team.

[americantrotter]

The FA are crap. Perhaps Capello can get past shitty team selection and inbred lovefests.

[Bruce Rioja]

The FA are crap. Perhaps Capello can get past shitty team selection and inbred lovefests.

Go on

[Montreal Wanderer]

Think a lot of the apathy about our national side came about from the realistion that Britannia no longer rules the waves, not even the Mexican versions. Maybe we needed a short sharp shock (or was that a long painful toothache during the previous manager reigns?) Whatever it was, we got it during the exit from the current Euro campaign.

Granted, I am an outsider, but to me England just seems like an episode of Dream Team. Football is just an excuse for a bunch of gossip, drama, and backstabbing. Weeks of build-up, speculation, debate, argument, breaking news, headlines, feature articles, rumors . . . all in service of an extremely workmanlike performance against a team that didn't play very well at all. You can only handle so many games like that before you get burned out.

What's Dream Team?

It appears to be a British TV show about Harchester United FC watched by people in Seattle, but not in Manchester. I've never seen (or heard) of it.

[CrazyHorse]

Think a lot of the apathy about our national side came about from the realistion that Britannia no longer rules the waves, not even the Mexican versions. Maybe we needed a short sharp shock (or was that a long painful toothache during the previous manager reigns?) Whatever it was, we got it during the exit from the current Euro campaign.

Granted, I am an outsider, but to me England just seems like an episode of Dream Team. Football is just an excuse for a bunch of gossip, drama, and backstabbing. Weeks of build-up, speculation, debate, argument, breaking news, headlines, feature articles, rumors . . . all in service of an extremely workmanlike performance against a team that didn't play very well at all. You can only handle so many games like that before you get burned out.

[FD]

Wierd to here so many people not caring...I didn't jump up and down but I still want to see England play.

Won't be staying up for the 10:20pm kick off against Trinidad & Tobago though.

Well said FD, i always want England to win, even at tiddlywinks. Must be old-fashioned me, too many people are apathetic regarding the national team. Mind you i also like the Scots and Northern Irish teams to win too, dunno why but have never had the same thing for the Welsh
I'll deffo stay up for the T&T game, hoping Capello can get the right striker to work alongside Rooney, thought he was superb for 90% of the time he played last night.

Dunno who quoted it but if Lallas said the MLS is better than the EPL, that's the stupidest thing that's come out of the guy since his hair.

I thought Rooney, Beckham and Gerrard linked up beautifully last night, but Defoe isn't the partner for Rooney I don't think.

Reason I won't be staying up though is simply that I'm at work for 5am the next morning, otherwise I'd be watching.

[H. Pedersen]

As a sidenote i think that the more players we fill our best league with from foreign countries will always and has always added to the demise of the national team.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Take foreigners out of the EPL and you'd just have the top 4 gobbling up all the best English players. Are Gareth Barry and Jermaine Defoe going to be better off riding Chelsea's bench, or playing every week for Villa and Portsmouth? Don't you think Gerrard and Rooney will be better off facing top-class international opposition and comptetitve mid-table teams? Or would it be more helpful to have three or four strong English clubs and 16 where guys like Nicky Hunt and Nathan Ellington are the stand-outs?

I suppose the argument is that it is harder for young, genuinely talented English players to break into the top-flight when they've got a bunch of cheap, ready-made imports in their way. That said, I think anyone who is truly going to make a difference at international level will have no problem getting into the first team of a decent side.

[TANGODANCER]

As a sidenote i think that the more players we fill our best league with from foreign countries will always and has always added to the demise of the national team.

Can't see the logic there WA. By importing and playing with, and against, these players we a t least have an idea of the merits and experience of them, rather than getting a cultural shock when we meet them at international level without knowing the first thing about them. Granted the money is a massive lure for foreign players, but at least the Premierhsip benefits from an array of talent above and beyond an all-English, and less talented set-up. I can remember years back when meeting the likes of Spain, Peru, Uraguay, Chile Argentina, even Hungary and the like meant instant goodbye, such was the class difference..

[communistworkethic]

Think a lot of the apathy about our national side came about from the realistion that Britannia no longer rules the waves, not even the Mexican versions. Maybe we needed a short sharp shock (or was that a long painful toothache during the previous manager reigns?) Whatever it was, we got it during the exit from the current Euro campaign.

Granted, I am an outsider, but to me England just seems like an episode of Dream Team. Football is just an excuse for a bunch of gossip, drama, and backstabbing. Weeks of build-up, speculation, debate, argument, breaking news, headlines, feature articles, rumors . . . all in service of an extremely workmanlike performance against a team that didn't play very well at all. You can only handle so many games like that before you get burned out.

What's Dream Team?

and you call yourself a football fan!!!!!!!!!!!

[H. Pedersen]

By importing and playing with, and against, these players we a t least have an idea of the merits and experience of them, rather than getting a cultural shock when we meet them at international level without knowing the first thing about them.

The words "England Hungary 1953" come to mind.

[TANGODANCER]

By importing and playing with, and against, these players we a t least have an idea of the merits and experience of them, rather than getting a cultural shock when we meet them at international level without knowing the first thing about them.

The words "England Hungary 1953" come to mind.

Aye, I did mention Hungary in the post.

[WhiteArmy]

As a sidenote i think that the more players we fill our best league with from foreign countries will always and has always added to the demise of the national team.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Take foreigners out of the EPL and you'd just have the top 4 gobbling up all the best English players. Are Gareth Barry and Jermaine Defoe going to be better off riding Chelsea's bench, or playing every week for Villa and Portsmouth? Don't you think Gerrard and Rooney will be better off facing top-class international opposition and comptetitve mid-table teams? Or would it be more helpful to have three or four strong English clubs and 16 where guys like Nicky Hunt and Nathan Ellington are the stand-outs?

I suppose the argument is that it is harder for young, genuinely talented English players to break into the top-flight when they've got a bunch of cheap, ready-made imports in their way. That said, I think anyone who is truly going to make a difference at international level will have no problem getting into the first team of a decent side.

Well yes, but there's also the point that if you are picking from the cream of the crop of the talent from one country i.e. England, rather than from whichever part of the world you like. Then the players that are left to 'make the grade' will be of a closer standard to the first batch. At the moment young English players aren't getting any further up the ladder because our leagues are saturated with European and African players.

The Scots are building their domestic teams with far more home grown talent, mainly due to the fact they no longer get decent tv revenue i admit, but it's starting to pay off for the national team.

[fatshaft]

As a sidenote i think that the more players we fill our best league with from foreign countries will always and has always added to the demise of the national team.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Take foreigners out of the EPL and you'd just have the top 4 gobbling up all the best English players. Are Gareth Barry and Jermaine Defoe going to be better off riding Chelsea's bench, or playing every week for Villa and Portsmouth? Don't you think Gerrard and Rooney will be better off facing top-class international opposition and comptetitve mid-table teams? Or would it be more helpful to have three or four strong English clubs and 16 where guys like Nicky Hunt and Nathan Ellington are the stand-outs?

I suppose the argument is that it is harder for young, genuinely talented English players to break into the top-flight when they've got a bunch of cheap, ready-made imports in their way. That said, I think anyone who is truly going to make a difference at international level will have no problem getting into the first team of a decent side.

Well yes, but there's also the point that if you are picking from the cream of the crop of the talent from one country i.e. England, rather than from whichever part of the world you like. Then the players that are left to 'make the grade' will be of a closer standard to the first batch. At the moment young English players aren't getting any further up the ladder because our leagues are saturated with European and African players.

The Scots are building their domestic teams with far more home grown talent, mainly due to the fact they no longer get decent tv revenue i admit, but it's starting to pay off for the national team.

Sorry WA, but this line is spouted by the media all the time, and on closer inspection is pure nonsense.

Don't know the exact numbers, but weren't there over 150 English players started for a EPL team last season? (plus Beckham)

Now surely of those, playing top flight English football, there must be a team of 11 somewhere? And with those presumably being the best 150, are you really saying that someone could be missing his chance at International football by not being one of those 150? Every manager in the top flight manaed to miss the quality of an English International prospect? I doubt that somehow?

It's a total red herring. Surely in theory the mere fact that a large proportion of the best players in the world are there to be played against and learned from week in week out does far more good for the top English players than having a run out against weak opposition every week?

Put it another way, the argument why Celtic & Rangers don;t do better in Europe is that the opposition they face week in week out isn't tough enough to prepare them for it, and yet the exact opposite arguement is used to justiy England's shortcomings.

It was refreshing to hear Capello being interviewed and immediately rubbishing this line of thought the other day.

[White Army]

As a sidenote i think that the more players we fill our best league with from foreign countries will always and has always added to the demise of the national team.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Take foreigners out of the EPL and you'd just have the top 4 gobbling up all the best English players. Are Gareth Barry and Jermaine Defoe going to be better off riding Chelsea's bench, or playing every week for Villa and Portsmouth? Don't you think Gerrard and Rooney will be better off facing top-class international opposition and comptetitve mid-table teams? Or would it be more helpful to have three or four strong English clubs and 16 where guys like Nicky Hunt and Nathan Ellington are the stand-outs?

I suppose the argument is that it is harder for young, genuinely talented English players to break into the top-flight when they've got a bunch of cheap, ready-made imports in their way. That said, I think anyone who is truly going to make a difference at international level will have no problem getting into the first team of a decent side.

Well yes, but there's also the point that if you are picking from the cream of the crop of the talent from one country i.e. England, rather than from whichever part of the world you like. Then the players that are left to 'make the grade' will be of a closer standard to the first batch. At the moment young English players aren't getting any further up the ladder because our leagues are saturated with European and African players.

The Scots are building their domestic teams with far more home grown talent, mainly due to the fact they no longer get decent tv revenue i admit, but it's starting to pay off for the national team.

Sorry WA, but this line is spouted by the media all the time, and on closer inspection is pure nonsense.

Don't know the exact numbers, but weren't there over 150 English players started for a EPL team last season? (plus Beckham)

Now surely of those, playing top flight English football, there must be a team of 11 somewhere? And with those presumably being the best 150, are you really saying that someone could be missing his chance at International football by not being one of those 150? Every manager in the top flight manaed to miss the quality of an English International prospect? I doubt that somehow?

It's a total red herring. Surely in theory the mere fact that a large proportion of the best players in the world are there to be played against and learned from week in week out does far more good for the top English players than having a run out against weak opposition every week?

Put it another way, the argument why Celtic & Rangers don;t do better in Europe is that the opposition they face week in week out isn't tough enough to prepare them for it, and yet the exact opposite arguement is used to justiy England's shortcomings.

It was refreshing to hear Capello being interviewed and immediately rubbishing this line of thought the other day.

I'm not saying it's THE reason mate, i'm saying it's one of them. Another reason IMO (and this might ring a bell with you being a Scot, because your lads always try their nuts off) is the England players don't seem to understand what it means to the average England supporter when they win or lose. I have lost count the amount of times that i have seen socalled England 'stars' poncing round a pitch like it's a training game. Always remember Beckham running himself into the ground (could have been the Greece game) while everyone around him stood there like a tw@, looking at him like he'd gone mental! It's a combination of lack of quality, lack of leadership, lack of belief and unrealistic expectations from the mediawhich affect the England setup, but i honestly don't think the massive mount of foreign players helps us one bit.

[H. Pedersen]

I never understood all the criticism of Beckham. He's the richest, most famous player in the world and he still works his ass off. How many other England players would leave their vomit on the fields of Germany?

[FD]

I never understood all the criticism of Beckham. He's the richest, most famous player in the world and he still works his ass off. How many other England players would leave their vomit on the fields of Germany?

Agreed, and if he'd have played the full 90 minutes against the USA he'd have been my man of the match, he was BRILLIANT the first half, I've never been a fan but he's changing my mind very quickly with the effort and performances he's putting in.

[Athers]

I never understood all the criticism of Beckham. He's the richest, most famous player in the world and he still works his ass off. How many other England players would leave their vomit on the fields of Germany?

The irony is that the egotistical players like Gerrard, Lampard, Ashley Cole and so on perform like they can't be arsed in an England shirt and the biggest celebrity footballer of them all and former villain is the only one who looks like he gives a shit.

Having said that I'll be surprised if he lines up in the world cup in 2010, so I'm a bit unsure as to whether he should be playing now.

[Tombwfc]

I never understood all the criticism of Beckham. He's the richest, most famous player in the world and he still works his ass off. How many other England players would leave their vomit on the fields of Germany?

Agreed, and if he'd have played the full 90 minutes against the USA he'd have been my man of the match, he was BRILLIANT the first half, I've never been a fan but he's changing my mind very quickly with the effort and performances he's putting in.

Indeed, his first half performance showed Bentley up for what he is, the most overrated player in the Premierleague. Beckham is the wrong side of 30, can't run and has practically all but retired from domestic football, and Bentley still isn't fit to lace his boots.

[Bruce Rioja]

See, when I was a boy, Nottingham Forrest and Liverpool were the greatest teams in Europe, all made up of predominantly English players. Yet England were so shit they were unbelievable, so let's have Fanny Blatter's theory on that one. Also, for me, the influx of foreigners at the top level means that some decent but ultimately not-up-to-it talent washes down to the lower leagues. As such, this benefits every viewing supporter throughout the land, and find me one that doesn't put club before country? This is where it matters. It's all very well for yon cockend to bang on about damaging the national side, he's not shelling out great chunks of his earnings and the years of his life supporting his local side.