Luton to face 30-point deduction

sluffy · Post by **sluffy** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:12 pm

Luton Town will start the next League Two season on minus 30 points after a ruling by the Football League.

The Hatters had already been deducted 10 points by the Football Association after being found guilty of misconduct for paying agents via a third party.

And the company which will take over the club has now been told it must accept a further 20-point deduction in order to be allowed in the League.

The penalty is because Luton failed to satisfy the League's insolvency rules.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 500435.stm

KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab · Post by **KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:59 pm

I do the odd bit of coaching for Luton's Youth Development and Centre of Excellence, and a points deduction has been seen throughout the football side of the club as an inevitable millstone with which to battle through. Everyone was expecting 20 points, though. And will still expect when the appeal comes to fruition. Why should there be a 20 point penalty for the same misdemeanour that Leeds committed and only lost 15 points?

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:11 pm

Cos you're not a 'massive' club.

FD · Post by FD » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:17 pm

It seems pointless to me, I mean, just relegate them. Starting on -30 is as good as a relegation so why bother?

Tombwfc · Post by **Tombwfc** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:45 pm

I suppose it's better for them financially to stay in the football league for a season. And theres still hope, using last seasons table they'd need about 70-75 points to stay up, which was a playoff place. It's not out of the realms of possibility that they could do it, being as they would expect playoffs as a minimum if they had no deductions.

sluffy · Post by **sluffy** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:04 pm

FD wrote:It seems pointless to me, I mean, just relegate them. Starting on -30 is as good as a relegation so why bother?

Not necessarily - Leeds overcame a twenty-point deduction and managed to get to their Divisions play-off final.

Last season Chester City finished in 20th place (lowest club not to be relegated) in League Two on 47 points - so Luton would need get something like 80 points or so to probably stay up. Five teams managed 80 points or more in that division that year.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/ ... nding.html

So I guess it is just about possible for Luton to survive - but it does seem that the odds will be against them.

CrazyHorse · Post by **CrazyHorse** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:06 pm

FD wrote:It seems pointless to me, I mean, just relegate them. Starting on -30 is as good as a relegation so why bother?

Also to just relegate them would mean another club gets automatically promoted to take their place which isn't exactly fair.

KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab · Post by **KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:19 pm

Tombwfc wrote:I suppose it's better for them financially to stay in the football league for a season. And theres still hope, using last seasons table they'd need about 70-75 points to stay up, which was a playoff place. It's not out of the realms of possibility that they could do it, being as they would expect playoffs as a minimum if they had no deductions.

You'd be surprised. The Setanta Sports money, the Blue Square money and the extra prize money that comes from the FA Trophy means that the financial gap between the top of the Conference and the bottom of League Two shrinks with every season that goes by.

a1 · Post by a1 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:44 pm

sluffy wrote:
Not necessarily - Leeds overcame a twenty-point deduction and managed to get to their Divisions play-off final.

didnt leeds get 15 took off them when they were in "the championship" ? and only taking that punishment when they were mathamatically relegated (basically making the punishment 'null') .

and a further 15 the next season for being bent bastards in trying it on in the first place.

I think that apart from being 'bent' , it also broke some bankruptcy law were the taxman wanted his money by a certain date (think it was march) , so they didnt declare bankruptcy early enough , an' all.

luton's thing looks like its both points fines in one go..

whatever.

i'll bet the ambulance folk in luton dont get their money either..

Luna · Post by **Luna** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:54 pm

sluffy wrote:Not necessarily - Leeds overcame a twenty-point deduction and managed to get to their Divisions play-off final.

Leeds had a fifteen point deduction, and also had the best squad in the league. Bare in mind Luton have lost most of their good players.

Montreal Wanderer · Post by **Montreal Wanderer** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:08 pm

Luna wrote:
sluffy wrote:Not necessarily - Leeds overcame a twenty-point deduction and managed to get to their Divisions play-off final.
Leeds had a fifteen point deduction, and also had the best squad in the league. Bare in mind Luton have lost most of their good players.

And that's the naked truth!

KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab · Post by **KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:14 pm

a1 wrote:
sluffy wrote:
Not necessarily - Leeds overcame a twenty-point deduction and managed to get to their Divisions play-off final.
didnt leeds get 15 took off them when they were in "the championship" ? and only taking that punishment when they were mathamatically relegated (basically making the punishment 'null') .

and a further 15 the next season for being bent bastards in trying it on in the first place.

I think that apart from being 'bent' , it also broke some bankruptcy law were the taxman wanted his money by a certain date (think it was march) , so they didnt declare bankruptcy early enough , an' all.

luton's thing looks like its both points fines in one go..

whatever.

i'll bet the ambulance folk in luton dont get their money either..

Leeds had ten points taken off in The Championship for going into administration, just after it was obvious they couldn't realistically catch Hull's goal difference on the last day of the season (what a difference a year makes, eh?). They were then given an extra 15 points taken off because Ken Bates tried it on, and basically tried to take Leeds out of administration without actually giving any reassurances that the club would be run any differently than when they were taken into administration.

Luton had ten points taken off last season as well, which effectively signed their death warrant. Now they've had this extra 30 points, which is why it feels harsh.

If I'm interpreting your last sentence correctly, a1, then it's not that desperate anymore. Everyone at Luton Town is now being paid, although most of the players are still owed the three months of wages they weren't paid in October, November and December. The two Cup matches against Liverpool helped, although the squad was effectively stripped by the administrator, and nearly two thirds of the admin staff were laid off last October.

My side of things will still go strong no matter what. The Youth Development and The School of Excellence has been unoficially moved under the Football in the Community's remit, which has become the Luton Town Community Trust, which is aso a charity in it's own right. It's been so fuitful in the past (John Hartson, Curtis Davis, and a certain M. Taylor have come through the system, effectively paying for the scheme for a while.

sluffy · Post by **sluffy** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:39 am

Luna wrote:
sluffy wrote:Not necessarily - Leeds overcame a twenty-point deduction and managed to get to their Divisions play-off final.
Leeds had a fifteen point deduction, and also had the best squad in the league. Bare in mind Luton have lost most of their good players.

Sorry you are right - Leeds only got a 15-point deduction - but my point still stands as they finished six points in front of Brighton in seventh place - so they still mathematically would have made the play-off position irrespective of a 15 or 20 point deduction.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/ ... nding.html

As for the best squad in the league - you may / may not be right - but they did just like Luton - have to go through the same legal procedures - and did not achieve a Company Voluntary Agreement (CVA) either. So I would have thought their more 'coveted' players would have left during this time and such players as listed below did -

David Healy [Leeds - Fulham] £1.5m
Robbie Blake [Leeds - Burnley] £250,000
Stephen Crainey [Leeds - Blackpool] Free
Kevin Nicholls [Leeds - Preston] Undisclosed
Neil Sullivan [Leeds - Doncaster] Free
Eddie Lewis [Leeds - Derby] Undisclosed

bobo the clown · Post by **bobo the clown** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:37 am

The FA's justification included the, not unreasonable, point that this was the 3rd time in 10yrs that Luton have gone bust & re-started.

Hence, little sympathy.

Happening once is bad enough, 3 times !?

a1 · Post by a1 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:26 pm

KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab wrote:
Leeds had ten points taken off in The Championship for going into administration, just after it was obvious they couldn't realistically catch Hull's goal difference on the last day of the season (what a difference a year makes, eh?). They were then given an extra 15 points taken off because Ken Bates tried it on, and basically tried to take Leeds out of administration without actually giving any reassurances that the club would be run any differently than when they were taken into administration.

Luton had ten points taken off last season as well, which effectively signed their death warrant. Now they've had this extra 30 points, which is why it feels harsh.

If I'm interpreting your last sentence correctly, a1, then it's not that desperate anymore. .

yeah , i got something wrong..

leeds got done 10 (or 15?) then 15 more, for pretty much the same thing [fiscal crap].

luton got done 10 for using bent agents then 20 for fiscal crap. all at once.

it doesnt weigh up the same, but, it seems the little guy (say, the ambulances people) get ripped off, but the big bosses still get their money.

if a few went to the wall, there'd be fewer clubs around for these bent feck* to keep buying and coining it in while ripping off the small guy. it might not be fair to 'AnyTown FC' fans , but it keeps happening. maybe thats why luton got done 5/10 points more.

them bankruptcy laws want changing too.

blurred · Post by **blurred** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:38 pm

Good.

Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out (of business, again, probably).

Dave Sutton's barnet · Post by **Dave Sutton's barnet** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:04 pm

KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab wrote:
a1 wrote:i'll bet the ambulance folk in luton dont get their money either..
If I'm interpreting your last sentence correctly, a1, then it's not that desperate anymore.

I think A1's referring to lessons from history, writ large in gory detail in David Conn's The Beautiful Game?, that on almost every occasion a club has gone bankrupt they have owed a relatively significant amount of money to the St John Ambulance, a charity staffed by volunteers.

Dave Sutton's barnet · Post by **Dave Sutton's barnet** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:05 pm

blurred wrote:Good. Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out (of business, again, probably).

Presumably you're upset because some of their fans aren't very nice. I put it to you that while you seem a fine chap, not every member of your Red Army has covered himself in glory, so I'd be careful of judging by those standards, Blurred.

blurred · Post by **blurred** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:52 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
blurred wrote:Good. Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out (of business, again, probably).
Presumably you're upset because some of their fans aren't very nice. I put it to you that while you seem a fine chap, not every member of your Red Army has covered himself in glory, so I'd be careful of judging by those standards, Blurred.

Nope, nothing to do with their fans, actually, just the club as a whole. I feel sorry for the fans of clubs who go out of business, it must be a massive gap in their lives.

bobby5 · Post by **bobby5** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:18 pm

Looks like it's Bournemouth and Rotherham fighing to join Luton in the Conference. I doubt these two clubs will be the last to suffer the same fate.

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