Murderers at it again

[William the White]

3rd of May 2007, William

My position remains as it was

Perhaps you could elucidate on the significance of that date. It would help me understand your point.

And it would help all readers of this thread, i'm sure, if you could explain which of your two positions on this very thread 'remain the same' since they are quite clearly different.

[superjohnmcginlay]

3rd of May 2007, William

My position remains as it was

Perhaps you could elucidate on the significance of that date. It would help me understand your point.

And it would help all readers of this thread, i'm sure, if you could explain which of your two positions on this very thread 'remain the same' since they are quite clearly different.

European Human Rights Court ruled against him.

[Athers]

Fans can do what they like - as citizens of Britain and Norway they have the right to do so, but the club shouldn't be getting involved like this.

I assume Sankey doesn't go to the game anymore and may have moved out of Liverpool? and anyone know how that waiter is these days?

[superjohnmcginlay]

Fans can do what they like - as citizens of Britain and Norway they have the right to do so, but the club shouldn't be getting involved like this.

I assume Sankey doesn't go to the game anymore and may have moved out of Liverpool? and anyone know how that waiter is these days?

Yeah he's managing the team. The pr*ck.

[fatshaft]

Ok - to CWE - I'm almost certain because another man - graham sankey - with a criminal record admitted his guilt. this was the first man arrested by the bulgarian police, then released.

WTW, on RAWK there is a big petition thread to get Shields out, many months ago I asked why no-one was putting pressure on Sankey to do the decent thing, or why as many had posted, that "someone has owned up to it" was the fight not to get him in the dock so that Shields could go free?

Rather the Scousers of course think that the only right thing to do is to let one guy out, and let a murderer walk around safely in their midst at the same time.

You'd be amazed how many got into a discussion on my point. It was ZERO, not one commented on it, not one, not a single poster on RAWK thought that there was some merit in my view, or that it was even worthy of comment.

That is very interesting, and surprising. I would want sankey charged if there was evidence that would stick, now that he has withdrawn his 'confession'. But I feel shields has been framed, and that an innocent supporter of his club should be released, even if the thug and hooligan that committed this appalling crime cannot be charged.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that one needs to happen to precipitate the other, I was just amused that the Scousers so obviously and predicatably shunned any thought of perhaps dragging the real culprit up in front of the law, to expediate the release of the allegedly wronged Shields.

[communistworkethic]

yes from a city whose televised 'modern' nativity last year included the line "don't tell da bizzies"

They city of culture - a culture of crime

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I thought it was fairly clear that the 'confession' was a load of bollocks, by now?

And so what's left is the procedural stuff... which the the European Court of Human Rights didn't think merited an appeal. Why the pro-Shields lot go on about the white t-shirt he was made to wear is beyond me - would they have preferred him to be wearing his Liverpool shirt in the line-up?!

As for what's happening on Thursday - complete waste of time, there's no way Straw's entitled to pardon Shields, even if he wanted to, and there's no compelling reason he should.

I agree with Caps that the sort of stuff that went on a Liverpool on Sunday leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

[Prufrock]

Ok - to CWE - I'm almost certain because another man - graham sankey - with a criminal record admitted his guilt. this was the first man arrested by the bulgarian police, then released.

they went to rearrest him to find that he'd checked out of the hotel. so they went to another room, where michael shields was asleep, and arrested him...

this hardly seems like a convincing investigation. it does seem like a determination to get a body at all costs... This is not unknown in the police world, including, alas, the UK police world - birmingham 6, guildford 4, etc...

the testimony of other liverpool fans that offer shields an alibi is supportive...

the repeated fingering of sankey by other fans is circumstailly supportive...

the identification procedures involved a 'parade' where shields was the only englishman, where he had been dressed in a white t-shirt not his own, where he had been held handcuffed in full view in the police station for up to four hours beforehand...

i'd be interested if any of our law students on this forum could comment on these procedures... but it looks like a frame to me...

To CAPS... He seems 'as likely as any other' seems a weakening of some major order from your original post... 'guilty of a terrible crime...' given what appears to be a significant change of position perhaps you would, on reflection, like to withdraw your original post? I think that would be a decent thing to do, since clearly you have more doubts than you once did.

The thing I don't get is, how the EU can let a country with such ridiculous police tactics into the EU. No-one on here knows whether Shields is guilty or not, but it is clear he hasn't had a fair hearing. Then again it's a bit unfair to single out Bulgaria, what with Spain's mentalists, and our teror laws being used in tenuous ways. What's happened to the basic human rights western civilisation is supposed to be built upon?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The thing I don't get is, how the EU can let a country with such ridiculous police tactics into the EU. No-one on here knows whether Shields is guilty or not, but it is clear he hasn't had a fair hearing.

Is it clear? Because if it is, I haven't seen it clearly demonstrated.

[William the White]

The thing I don't get is, how the EU can let a country with such ridiculous police tactics into the EU. No-one on here knows whether Shields is guilty or not, but it is clear he hasn't had a fair hearing.

Is it clear? Because if it is, I haven't seen it clearly demonstrated.

This may be an unworthy thought, but would you have to climb a massive, well-watered mound of anti-liverpool prejudice to see it any other way than shields guilty... ?

[William the White]

yes from a city whose televised 'modern' nativity last year included the line "don't tell da bizzies"

They city of culture - a culture of crime

thought that nativity play was disastrously bad, and didn't stay with it as long as you, cwe - but that line, referring to the murderous alliance between Herod and the Roman occupation forces, has my absolute approval...

You know, like, best keep the birth of the redeemer of humankind a secret from those wanting to murder him... Good thinking, I reckon...

[hisroyalgingerness]

The thing I don't get is, how the EU can let a country with such ridiculous police tactics into the EU. No-one on here knows whether Shields is guilty or not, but it is clear he hasn't had a fair hearing.

[/quote]

fecking Spain are in it so why not

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The thing I don't get is, how the EU can let a country with such ridiculous police tactics into the EU. No-one on here knows whether Shields is guilty or not, but it is clear he hasn't had a fair hearing.

Is it clear? Because if it is, I haven't seen it clearly demonstrated.

This may be an unworthy thought, but would you have to climb a massive, well-watered mound of anti-liverpool prejudice to see it any other way than shields guilty... ?

Not really... it obviously wasn't clear to the ECtHR the verdict was unsafe. The popular idea that it is 'clear' that he didn't have a fair trial seems to be entirely the result of the Shields campaign machine, as far as I can see.

[communistworkethic]

yes from a city whose televised 'modern' nativity last year included the line "don't tell da bizzies"

They city of culture - a culture of crime

thought that nativity play was disastrously bad, and didn't stay with it as long as you, cwe - but that line, referring to the murderous alliance between Herod and the Roman occupation forces, has my absolute approval...

You know, like, best keep the birth of the redeemer of humankind a secret from those wanting to murder him... Good thinking, I reckon...

aye yeah right, because it's historical fact

[Prufrock]

The thing I don't get is, how the EU can let a country with such ridiculous police tactics into the EU. No-one on here knows whether Shields is guilty or not, but it is clear he hasn't had a fair hearing.

Is it clear? Because if it is, I haven't seen it clearly demonstrated.

The points WtW made certainly don't constitute what i would call a fair hearing. what i have read seems to indicate that there are definately witnesses who say Shields was asleep at the time, that he was kept in full view handcuffed before the ident parade, and was dressed specifically for it. There certainly seems to be question marks above this one. I dont pretend to know if he is guilty or not. I would certainly expect the case to be treated differently and more fairly here however. You just cant conduct identity parades like that. As i said, whether or not he is guilty, that evidence certainly wouldn't have been admissible here, and the case would probably have been thrown out.

[Prufrock]

The thing I don't get is, how the EU can let a country with such ridiculous police tactics into the EU. No-one on here knows whether Shields is guilty or not, but it is clear he hasn't had a fair hearing.

fecking Spain are in it so why not[/quote]

Good point, not as if i mentioned that.

The thing I don't get is, how the EU can let a country with such ridiculous police tactics into the EU. No-one on here knows whether Shields is guilty or not, but it is clear he hasn't had a fair hearing. Then again it's a bit unfair to single out Bulgaria, what with Spain's mentalists, and our teror laws being used in tenuous ways. What's happened to the basic human rights western civilisation is supposed to be built upon?

[William the White]

yes from a city whose televised 'modern' nativity last year included the line "don't tell da bizzies"

They city of culture - a culture of crime

thought that nativity play was disastrously bad, and didn't stay with it as long as you, cwe - but that line, referring to the murderous alliance between Herod and the Roman occupation forces, has my absolute approval...

You know, like, best keep the birth of the redeemer of humankind a secret from those wanting to murder him... Good thinking, I reckon...

aye yeah right, because it's historical fact

wink perhaps indicates irony?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The thing I don't get is, how the EU can let a country with such ridiculous police tactics into the EU. No-one on here knows whether Shields is guilty or not, but it is clear he hasn't had a fair hearing.

Is it clear? Because if it is, I haven't seen it clearly demonstrated.

The points WtW made certainly don't constitute what i would call a fair hearing. what i have read seems to indicate that there are definately witnesses who say Shields was asleep at the time, that he was kept in full view handcuffed before the ident parade, and was dressed specifically for it. There certainly seems to be question marks above this one. I dont pretend to know if he is guilty or not. I would certainly expect the case to be treated differently and more fairly here however. You just cant conduct identity parades like that. As i said, whether or not he is guilty, that evidence certainly wouldn't have been admissible here, and the case would probably have been thrown out.

But what is the source of these accounts of what is supposed to have gone wrong in the process?

During the trial, Shields’ four mates took it in turns to recount their stories of how they each went into his room individually in the middle of the night to retrieve various items, and saw him lying there snoring his head off. It's perhaps unsurprising that the credibility of these 'witnesses' has been doubted...

I don't know what exactly happened after Shields was arrested, but the fact that the ECtHR weren't interested is the most compelling part of what I've read.

[communistworkethic]

mummy, come on now, how can the highest court in europe possibly be right in the face of compelling evidence from a group of liverpudlians????????

'due process' is nought when compared to the word of scallies, haven't you learned anything while studying law??

[fatshaft]

mummy, come on now, how can the highest court in europe possibly be right in the face of compelling evidence from a group of liverpudlians????????

'due process' is nought when compared to the word of scallies, haven't you learned anything while studying law??

Just about sums it up. There's no such thing as a guilty Scouser - ever