Ferguson and McGregor

[Prufrock]

BBC article, with pictures here

HAHAHAHAHAH, brilliant. Just like being back at school again!

[Verbal]

Can't blame Scotland or Rangers on this one. A couple of egoistic toe-rags who need dropping down a peg or two. They should have just took the original punishment but no, they go on to behave like a couple of spoilt brats.

[Prufrock]

Can't blame Scotland or Rangers on this one. A couple of egoistic toe-rags who need dropping down a peg or two. They should have just took the original punishment but no, they go on to behave like a couple of spoilt brats.

True, but it IS funny. It's just like school. Obviously stupid but if were them I would have just said it was a big gag. Now it's got turned into a serious matter. The drinking party is surely a bigger deal than these sophomoric high-jinks?

[TANGODANCER]

Can't blame Scotland or Rangers on this one. A couple of egoistic toe-rags who need dropping down a peg or two. They should have just took the original punishment but no, they go on to behave like a couple of spoilt brats.

True, but it IS funny. It's just like school. Obviously stupid but if were them I would have just said it was a big gag. Now it's got turned into a serious matter. The drinking party is surely a bigger deal than these sophomoric high-jinks?

The amount of wages they get says it definitely isnt. Every footballer in big-league knows that the camera catches everthing. Childish, to say the least.

[Prufrock]

Can't blame Scotland or Rangers on this one. A couple of egoistic toe-rags who need dropping down a peg or two. They should have just took the original punishment but no, they go on to behave like a couple of spoilt brats.

True, but it IS funny. It's just like school. Obviously stupid but if were them I would have just said it was a big gag. Now it's got turned into a serious matter. The drinking party is surely a bigger deal than these sophomoric high-jinks?

The amount of wages they get says it definitely isnt. Every footballer in big-league knows that the camera catches everthing. Childish, to say the least.

How the hell is what they get paid relevant? Whenever any football realted story comes in the news people have to get the wages in somehow. Yes it's childish, and yes it was stupid. But if they'd said it was a joke, some would have laughed, some wouldn't but it wouldn't have turned into a media shit-storm. Is it really that important? Much less important to me than having a massive drinking party a few days before a crucial qualifier. I read George Burley has now banned drinking on Scotland meet-ups. NOW banned drinking? End of the day, this sweary thing could have been laughed off, whereas the drinking party shouldn't. However, if I was Geroge Burley and they'd been swearing at me, they wouldn't be getting near my squad again. I wouldn't start talking about moral outrage though. They looked like idiots, but the picture did make me chuckle.

[TANGODANCER]

How the hell is what they get paid relevant? .

Would have thought that obvious, they're professional footballers playing for their country. Grown men getting paid to act like prats, getting bladdered while on duty then behaving like spoilt kids. Not outrage from me, just think it silly; a view apparently shared by them both in retrospect. Whatever..

[Tombwfc]

Presumably the idea is that they should've been embarrased and just got their heads down. They were already being booed by the Scots fans anyway, they were essentially sticking two fingers up at them aswell. There is no way they could've carried on. One is the captain and the other had just broke into the team because the manager backed him over Britains most expensive keeper. What the feck they thought they were doing i don't know? I think they've got off lightly, i'd have deported them.

Good on Rangers too. Gerrard or Ronaldo would have to kill someone before similar action was taken against them by their clubs.

[Prufrock]

How the hell is what they get paid relevant? .

Would have thought that obvious, they're professional footballers playing for their country. Grown men getting paid to act like prats, getting bladdered while on duty then behaving like spoilt kids. Not outrage from me, just think it silly; a view apparently shared by them both in retrospect. Whatever..

Clearly not to me. If money is relevant, then surely it follows that either a.the less money you get paid the more responsible you should be, or b.the more you get paid the more responsible you should be. Since you're not an idiot, I assume we can discount a. Does that then mean you believe a footballer needs to be more responsible than a fireman? He earns more so surely it is less 'OK' for him to make v-signs? I don't disagree with you that they are idiots, and childish, although it did make me chuckle. What I disagree with is that how much they get paid is relevant. The fact they are role models could be seen as relevant. The fact it is disrespectful to theur manager could be seen as relevant. How much they get paid? Not for me. I never get why the argument always comes up when regarding footballers. People expect them to behave perfectly because they get paid a lot. Surely more relevant to understanding their behaviour is the fact that because they earn a lot, have money and fortune thrown at them from an early age, perhaps it is more understandable that they behave like idiots. Why do people only mention footballers (and sometimes politicians too)? I have never heard anyone say, 'that actor who makes $1million per episode, it's so immoral'.

People talk about footballers' salaries because they are in the public eye and people are, frankly, jealous. Your Roman Abrahamovic, and your Sheik Mansour deserve their fortunes no more or less than a footballer. My problem with people talking about footballer's salaries being 'immoral' is that that necessarily implies you believe there is a moral code for salaries, that some professions are worth more than others. There will be folk who will agree with that, who will say a nurse does deserve to be paid more than a bank manager. But who deserves more, morally, a shop manager, or a bus driver? Where is the moral distinction there? Does someone middle class, born into a wealthy familly, goes to a paid school, then Uni and gets a job as a Doctor deserve more than a kid born in a poor neighbourhood, with poor schools, no access to books, but gets a job as a cleaner and works hard? One problem with the capitalist system is that the people who have a lot genuinly believe they deserve more than the poeple who have a little. Therefore charity dies out, and, for instance, social mobility in America according to some economists is as low as it has been for 200 years. If you accept capitalism as a system, and for now I think we must, since as Verbal thinks Churchill said (:D) "Capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others that have been tried", then you must accept sometimes people don't get what they 'deserve', but what the market says they are 'worth'. If you think footballers' salaries are somehow 'wrong' then surely it follows capitalism as a system is 'wrong'? Anyone got any better ideas?

[Prufrock]

Presumably the idea is that they should've been embarrased and just got their heads down. They were already being booed by the Scots fans anyway, they were essentially sticking two fingers up at them aswell. There is no way they could've carried on. One is the captain and the other had just broke into the team because the manager backed him over Britains most expensive keeper. What the feck they thought they were doing i don't know? I think they've got off lightly, i'd have deported them.

Good on Rangers too. Gerrard or Ronaldo would have to kill someone before similar action was taken against them by their clubs.

Good points. As I have said, for me the getting bladered a few nights before a crucial game is worse though, and if was George Burley, they'd have gone then. I do understand your point about how it's an escalation on top, but I think banning them for life is WAY OTT. I also don't buy they were 'essentially sticking two fingers up at them as well'. I doubt in their heads that's what they meant, they were just being idiots, and I doubt most Scots seeing it would be personally insulted, they'd just think they were being idiots.

[boltonboris]

How the hell is what they get paid relevant? .

Would have thought that obvious, they're professional footballers playing for their country. Grown men getting paid to act like prats, getting bladdered while on duty then behaving like spoilt kids. Not outrage from me, just think it silly; a view apparently shared by them both in retrospect. Whatever..

It's okay for Cricketers and Rugby players to do this. But as soon as this hapens with footballers, all hell breaks loose and it's a so called disgrace

[Worthy4England]

How the hell is what they get paid relevant? .

Would have thought that obvious, they're professional footballers playing for their country. Grown men getting paid to act like prats, getting bladdered while on duty then behaving like spoilt kids. Not outrage from me, just think it silly; a view apparently shared by them both in retrospect. Whatever..

It's okay for Cricketers and Rugby players to do this. But as soon as this hapens with footballers, all hell breaks loose and it's a so called disgrace

I think that's great hairy gonads Boris. Plenty of cases where cricketers and rugby players have been dropped for doing exactly this. What they then didn't do was sit on the bench showing the V sign to the collected media like a pair of spoilt 10 year olds. Their original punishment was to be dropped to the bench.

[BWFC_Insane]

The issue is here that if someone paid to do a job on minimum wage repeatedly broke the rules of that job they'd be sacked.

Why should it be any different for footballers? They broke the rules they were punished then they acted in a way that would lead to "normal" people being sacked.

So the rules should apply the same.

Footballers live in a very cushy world and whilst we can do nowt about their salaries we can ensure that at the very least they are treated by the same rules as everyone else. Make mistakes, act unprofessionally, disrespect your employees and you're out and no more 30K a week. Why should they still get paid?

I know I wouldn't be!

[nobby7]

Presumably the idea is that they should've been embarrased and just got their heads down. They were already being booed by the Scots fans anyway, they were essentially sticking two fingers up at them aswell. There is no way they could've carried on. One is the captain and the other had just broke into the team because the manager backed him over Britains most expensive keeper. What the feck they thought they were doing i don't know? I think they've got off lightly, i'd have deported them.

Good on Rangers too. Gerrard or Ronaldo would have to kill someone before similar action was taken against them by their clubs.

Good points. As I have said, for me the getting bladered a few nights before a crucial game is worse though, and if was George Burley, they'd have gone then. I do understand your point about how it's an escalation on top, but I think banning them for life is WAY OTT. I also don't buy they were 'essentially sticking two fingers up at them as well'. I doubt in their heads that's what they meant, they were just being idiots, and I doubt most Scots seeing it would be personally insulted, they'd just think they were being idiots.

As a scot i can tell you i definately was pretty insulted at what they did....not peronally insulted as if it was directed at the fans as well, but insulted that they would treat their privelaged position a a scotland player in such a manner....getting hammered 2 days before a qualifying match that was crucial inn deciding whether or not we can qualify is bad enough, but to then swear at the manager like that(who had already given them a fairly leniant punishment) is a disgrace...at a time when we needed squad unity to push for victories, they're promoting disharmony and majorly undermining the manager....the ban from playing for scotland is more than justified!!!

[Prufrock]

Presumably the idea is that they should've been embarrased and just got their heads down. They were already being booed by the Scots fans anyway, they were essentially sticking two fingers up at them aswell. There is no way they could've carried on. One is the captain and the other had just broke into the team because the manager backed him over Britains most expensive keeper. What the feck they thought they were doing i don't know? I think they've got off lightly, i'd have deported them.

Good on Rangers too. Gerrard or Ronaldo would have to kill someone before similar action was taken against them by their clubs.

Good points. As I have said, for me the getting bladered a few nights before a crucial game is worse though, and if was George Burley, they'd have gone then. I do understand your point about how it's an escalation on top, but I think banning them for life is WAY OTT. I also don't buy they were 'essentially sticking two fingers up at them as well'. I doubt in their heads that's what they meant, they were just being idiots, and I doubt most Scots seeing it would be personally insulted, they'd just think they were being idiots.

As a scot i can tell you i definately was pretty insulted at what they did....not peronally insulted as if it was directed at the fans as well, but insulted that they would treat their privelaged position a a scotland player in such a manner....getting hammered 2 days before a qualifying match that was crucial inn deciding whether or not we can qualify is bad enough, but to then swear at the manager like that(who had already given them a fairly leniant punishment) is a disgrace...at a time when we needed squad unity to push for victories, they're promoting disharmony and majorly undermining the manager....the ban from playing for scotland is more than justified!!!

They were swearing at photographers. The drinking I can see people getting pissed at, but surely the childish swearing shows they are just two clowns, and it's not something to be 'offended by'?

[FD]

They were representing their country, you are supposed to act with a certain degree of dignity and respect when doing so.

The ban is spot on.

[Traf]

They were representing their country, you are supposed to act with a certain degree of dignity and respect when doing so.

The ban is spot on.

I fully agree.

Overpaid brats IMO.

[Prufrock]

They were representing their country, you are supposed to act with a certain degree of dignity and respect when doing so.

The ban is spot on.

I fully agree.

Overpaid brats IMO.

I don't quite agree. I agree with A ban, for the drinking. But a lifetime ban, for the swearing. It's all wrong to me. People have done far worse than swear at a few nosey hacks. The fact they did it, and so soon after the drinking makes them complete idiots, but a lifetime ban. Strikes me as a media witch hunt, for a change.

[FD]

How many children will have seen and read about what they did Prufrock?

I'm sorry, but what they did is unnacceptable.

[Little Green Man]

I don't quite agree. I agree with A ban, for the drinking. But a lifetime ban, for the swearing. It's all wrong to me. People have done far worse than swear at a few nosey hacks. The fact they did it, and so soon after the drinking makes them complete idiots, but a lifetime ban. Strikes me as a media witch hunt, for a change.

I don't think there's been a media witch-hunt. As far as I'm aware, the media weren't driving this at all. The impression I got was that their club manager, Walter Smith who significantly is the previous Scotland manager but one, told them to keep their nose clean after they were extremely fortunate to be let back onto the bench for the Iceland game. By their actions they took the piss out of him, the Scottish manager, their club side and the Scotland fans and by that measure, they have got pretty much what they deserved, particularly Ferguson. There doesn't seem to be anyone up here holding a candle for them, even Rangers fans.

[Tombwfc]

I don't quite agree. I agree with A ban, for the drinking. But a lifetime ban, for the swearing. It's all wrong to me. People have done far worse than swear at a few nosey hacks. The fact they did it, and so soon after the drinking makes them complete idiots, but a lifetime ban. Strikes me as a media witch hunt, for a change.

I don't think there's been a media witch-hunt. As far as I'm aware, the media weren't driving this at all. The impression I got was that their club manager, Walter Smith who significantly is the previous Scotland manager but one, told them to keep their nose clean after they were extremely fortunate to be let back onto the bench for the Iceland game. By their actions they took the piss out of him, the Scottish manager, their club side and the Scotland fans and by that measure, they have got pretty much what they deserved, particularly Ferguson. There doesn't seem to be anyone up here holding a candle for them, even Rangers fans.

Agreed. If, say, Craig Gordon and Chris Iwelumo had been childishly swearing at journos from the bench before the Holland game, then they obviously wouldn't have been banned for life. It's the two issues put together that have led to the ban. They continued to act like bellends on the bench, in the middle of the punishment for acting like bellends two days earlier.