Bolton Wanderers Forum The-Wanderer.co.uk

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:14 am**

I see that they're bleating on about Hillsborough again and adopting their usual nowt-to-do-with-us stance. Rogan Taylor. What exactly is this 4uckwit's purpose in life other than to be a moaning Scouse prick? Ray Von's getting in on the act now too.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:09 pm**

Justice for the Heysel 33 !!!

I cannot believe that the South Yorks police forced them Liverpool fans to charge the Juve fans !! Absolute disgrace its all Thatchers fault.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:02 pm**

""The new evidence that we're presented with today makes clear in my view that these families have suffered a double injustice: the injustice of the appalling events, the failure of the state to protect their loved ones, and the indefensible wait to get the truth, and then the injustice of the denigration of the deceased - that they were somehow at fault for their own deaths. So on behalf of the government, and indeed our country, I am profoundly sorry that this double injustice has been left uncorrected for so long."

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:15 pm**

A few red faces on various bwfc forums today I reckon

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:20 pm**

benn wrote:A few red faces on various bwfc forums today I reckon

Why's that then ?

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:20 pm**

Annoyed Grunt wrote:
""The new evidence that we're presented with today makes clear in my view that these families have suffered a double injustice: the injustice of the appalling events, the failure of the state to protect their loved ones, and the indefensible wait to get the truth, and then the injustice of the denigration of the deceased - that they were somehow at fault for their own deaths. So on behalf of the government, and indeed our country, I am profoundly sorry that this double injustice has been left uncorrected for so long."

Surely that's a quadruple injustice... but that's the government for you, cuts, cuts, cuts: public spending one day, injustices the next.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:34 pm**

Can I respectfully suggest that all comments relating to today's statement in the House of Commons and any other discussions concerning the Hillsborough Disaster are posted here and not in the "Liverpool laughing stocks?" thread.

The "Liverpool laughing stocks?" thread is a great place to laugh at the many cock-ups Liverpool FC, its owners,management, staff, players and supporters get involved in over the course of a football season - and long may it continue.

This thread, given much of the information that we now have, is a better place to have a rational discussion (pro or anti) of the Hillsborough Disaster. I will move some relevant posts to here.

Thanks.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:06 pm**

Posts now moved successfully. On you go!

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:11 pm**

Oh dear...Some poor Scottish kid who happens to also be called Kelvin Mackenzie is getting dogs abuse on twitter.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:13 pm**

Merseyside-born footballer Joey Barton tweets: "Its not about blame. Its about Justice. Imagine if it was your son/daughter/brother/sister/mother/father/friend #JFT96"

Yes Joey, just imagine.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:39 pm**

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Merseyside-born footballer Joey Barton tweets: "Its not about blame. Its about Justice. Imagine if it was your son/daughter/brother/sister/mother/father/friend #JFT96"
Yes Joey, just imagine.

That seems a bit contradictory to me. If it isn't about blame, right-blame, wrong-blame-apportioning blame, then exactly what does "justice" mean? Always wondered about that.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:44 pm**

TANGODANCER wrote:
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Merseyside-born footballer Joey Barton tweets: "Its not about blame. Its about Justice. Imagine if it was your son/daughter/brother/sister/mother/father/friend #JFT96"
Yes Joey, just imagine.
That seems a bit contradictory to me. If it isn't about blame, right-blame, wrong-blame-apportioning blame, then exactly what does "justice" mean? Always wondered about that.

He wouldn't know if you asked him, Tango. This is Joey Barton and he is after all - an absolute fecking whopper.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:53 pm**

TANGODANCER wrote:
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Merseyside-born footballer Joey Barton tweets: "Its not about blame. Its about Justice. Imagine if it was your son/daughter/brother/sister/mother/father/friend #JFT96"
Yes Joey, just imagine.
That seems a bit contradictory to me. If it isn't about blame, right-blame, wrong-blame-apportioning blame, then exactly what does "justice" mean? Always wondered about that.

In this case, justice= compensation.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:08 pm**

I'm afraid you might be right
Thought i was the only cynic about that too !

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:24 pm**

TANGODANCER wrote:
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Merseyside-born footballer Joey Barton tweets: "Its not about blame. Its about Justice. Imagine if it was your son/daughter/brother/sister/mother/father/friend #JFT96"
Yes Joey, just imagine.
That seems a bit contradictory to me. If it isn't about blame, right-blame, wrong-blame-apportioning blame, then exactly what does "justice" mean? Always wondered about that.

That the truth has finally come out?

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:32 pm**

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/ ... report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:36 pm**

ohjimmyjimmy wrote:I'm afraid you might be right
Thought i was the only cynic about that too !

As if.

Only last Friday some grieving mother let slip the C word on a BBC North-West TV interview.

.... & it all slipped into place.

The facts are that the poor sods who were killed were there early, probably sober & inclined to be wll behaved. Of course their bereaved families have genuinely suffered and constantly reopening the wound can do no-one any good.

The police errors occured because of the late-comers, many pissed, a good number ticketless, who caused panic outside & the police & stewards wrongly, but for what they thought were good reasons & opened gates leading to the horrific crushing.

It was a terrible error. Not planned murder. Subsequent cover-ups were poor & not acceptable, though I have to say understandable once the wrath of the media got going.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:54 pm**

TANGODANCER wrote:
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Merseyside-born footballer Joey Barton tweets: "Its not about blame. Its about Justice. Imagine if it was your son/daughter/brother/sister/mother/father/friend #JFT96"
Yes Joey, just imagine.
That seems a bit contradictory to me. If it isn't about blame, right-blame, wrong-blame-apportioning blame, then exactly what does "justice" mean? Always wondered about that.

Not having 'accidental death' as the cause of death on a death certificate might be a start?

Having a full and proper inquest into your loved one's death to find out the reasons that they died?

Having the public made aware of the truth behind what happened to your son/daughter/brother/sister/mother/father/friend rather than the public at large assuming that they were drunk, ticketless and caused their fellow fans to die as the lies have been peddled for more than two decades?

Truth has to come out before justice can. Now we've finally got to the truth, after 23 years.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:59 pm**

bobo the clown wrote:The police errors occured because of the late-comers, many pissed, a good number ticketless, who caused panic outside & the police & stewards wrongly, but for what they thought were good reasons & opened gates leading to the horrific crushing.

Oh for f*ck's f*cking sake. There's enough facts in the public domain to prove that what you are saying above is utter codswallop. Why continue to peddle these myths and lies? The ticketless thing is a load of bullshit - the Health and Safety Executive have explained that the number of fans in the stand that day did not exceed the capacity. If there were loads of ticketless fans, where were all the ones who did have tickets?

Go and have a good, long read of http://www.hfdinfo.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; before commenting further, because you just make yourself look like an idiot.

bobo the clown wrote:Subsequent cover-ups were poor & not acceptable, though I have to say understandable once the wrath of the media got going.

What the f*ck does that even mean? It's acceptable for South Yorkshire police to systematically redact and alter the evidence of more than 160 of their officers? That 116 of those statements which criticised the conduct and organisation of the police that day were all removed? That they briefed the press deliberately to smear the fans to deflect from their own failings?

Just f*ck off.

Posted: **Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:01 pm**

bobo the clown wrote:
ohjimmyjimmy wrote:I'm afraid you might be right
Thought i was the only cynic about that too !
As if.

Only last Friday some grieving mother let slip the C word on a BBC North-West TV interview.

.... & it all slipped into place.

The facts are that the poor sods who were killed were there early, probably sober & inclined to be wll behaved. Of course their bereaved families have genuinely suffered and constantly reopening the wound can do no-one any good.

The police errors occured because of the late-comers, many pissed, a good number ticketless, who caused panic outside & the police & stewards wrongly, but for what they thought were good reasons & opened gates leading to the horrific crushing.

It was a terrible error. Not planned murder. Subsequent cover-ups were poor & not acceptable, though I have to say understandable once the wrath of the media got going.

I don't know if you have had chance to read what's come out of the panel today, but I don't think your 'facts' are borne out by the evidence.

"The panel concluded that the main cause of the Hillsborough disaster was a "failure in police control" but also revealed "multiple failures" within other organisations that compromised crowd safety. It underlined the "clear operational failure" that led to the disaster and the attempts by South Yorkshire police (SYP) and the ambulance service to cover up their shortcomings. The fact that the ambulance service also altered statements from staff is revealed for the first time. The evidence shows "conclusively" that Liverpool fans "neither caused nor contributed to the deaths" and shows the extent to which attempts, endorsed by the South Yorkshire chief constable Peter Wright, were made to smear them.

Documents released to the panel show how high-ranking police sources, the South Yorkshire Police Federation and the Tory MP Irvine Patnick were responsible for feeding the stories to Whites News Agency in Yorkshire.

They led to the infamous Sun headline "The Truth" that led to a longstanding boycott of the paper in Liverpool.

"The Police Federation, supported informally by the SYP chief constable, sought to develop and publicise a version of events derived in police officers' allegations of drunkenness, ticketless fans and violence. This extended beyond the media to parliament," said the panel."From the mass of documents, television and CCTV coverage disclosed to the panel there is no evidence to support these allegations other than a few isolated examples of aggressive or verbally abusive behaviour clearly reflecting frustration and desperation. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in rescuing and evacuating the dead and injured."

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