Mackay to Wigan

[Bruce Rioja]

The fact that Tan is a horrible vindictive bastard doesn't alter the fact that what they did was wrong. Two separate points.

I just can't get behind this. What if Tan had hacked Mackay's personal cell phone to find the texts? Or hacked his personal emails? Would everyone be saying "Well, Tan shouldn't have done that, but Mackay should still be ostracized for life?"

I don't know what line of work you're in, but employers, as far as I know, and certainly at our place have every right to scrutinise every email, text, or communication of any sort that's communicated via company equipment. There are no such things as personal emails or personal texts using company equipment. Nobody's talking about anybody hacking Mackay's personal apparatus.

Yes, I'm aware of that. And as I said, if this had been found while Mackay was still at Cardiff and he was fired as a result of the texts, I'd understand it. I'm taking issue with Tan digging through months-old texts looking for something to sabotage Mackay's appointment at Crystal Palace. I think that's the angle that Whelan should have taken. Yeah, Mackay screwed up, but why should Wigan deny themselves the best available manager just to serve a rival chairman's grudge?

Have you ever heard of a bloke called Jimmy Saville? He's dead. Should we ignore what he did?

[H. Pedersen]

I'm aware of Saville. Surely you're not comparing what he did to what Mackay did?

[H. Pedersen]

I think the other thing that annoys me about this is that it's indicative of how activists only go after low-hanging fruit these days. Pricks like Stan Collymore act like they've ended bigotry in football because they've driven out a manager who sent a few offensive texts. Meanwhile the 2018 World Cup is being held in the colorblind paradise of Russia, and the 2022 World Cup is being held in Qatar where it's illegal to be gay. But what a blow we've struck by blackballing Mackay.

[bobo the clown]

↑↑↑↑ which are good points.

I fear this age of social media allows mob rule to erupt for sleights, real or imagined, large or small. I'm no fan of Whelan and am very much enjoying him being exposed as a doddering old tw@t with less grip on modern life than a time teavelling Victorian. Him continuing to dig has been funny too.

MacKay similarly seems an unpleasant man & those texts & tweet and emails were far from one offs and God knows what it was he spoke. Also, as pointed out, he went head to toe with the club's owner and tried to sweep the fans to hus side despite lying, overspending and performing poorly.

Tan is as mad as a box of frogs and vindictive to boot. But there are lots of bigger things to tackle & for me I'd focus all my real attention on Blatter and his corrupt shenanigans.

Meanwhile, watching Wiggin look confused is nice nonetheless.

[a1]

I'm aware of Saville. Surely you're not comparing what he did to what Mackay did?

diamond dave gave stuart hall 'character reference' in court, thats erm, related.

stuart hall is in prison now .

[thebish]

↑↑↑↑ which are good points.

I fear this age of social media allows mob rule to erupt for sleights, real or imagined, large or small. I'm no fan of Whelan and am very much enjoying him being exposed as a doddering old tw@t with less grip on modern life than a time teavelling Victorian. Him continuing to dig has been funny too.

MacKay similarly seems an unpleasant man & those texts & tweet and emails were far from one offs and God knows what it was he spoke. Also, as pointed out, he went head to toe with the club's owner and tried to sweep the fans to hus side despite lying, overspending and performing poorly.

Tan is as mad as a box of frogs and vindictive to boot. But there are lots of bigger things to tackle & for me I'd focus all my real attention on Blatter and his corrupt shenanigans.

Meanwhile, watching Wiggin look confused is nice nonetheless.

i don't really understand why it isn't possible to be against the bigger thing and ALSO against the smaller thing...

Pederson is peddling a false dichotomy.

[a1]

it's that #slacktivism thing.

if dave said "come meet me and i'll sort it" 3 people would go.

[Bruce Rioja]

I'm aware of Saville. Surely you're not comparing what he did to what Mackay did?

You know what? I had a little wager with myself that that would be exactly what you'd come back with. I might treat myself with my winnings. Where the feck have I compared their respective deeds?

Perhaps the Police here shouldn't have gone "digging through" records of what Saville had done in the same way that, according to you, Tam shouldn't have gone "digging through" Mackay's communications. They're of equal entitlement to do so. That's the point.

[thebish]

it's that #slacktivism thing.

if dave said "come meet me and i'll sort it" 3 people would go.

aye - but it's a bag if tit to say that just because there are bigger issues in the world - folk should not write that MacKay is a cock on a football forum!

[a1]

i think a spellchecks gone wrong on the first six or so words there.

but yeah.

if malkay wanted to buy a football club, he'd probably pass all the "tests" going off whats gone before.

:/

[LeverEnd]

i think a spellchecks gone wrong on the first six or so words there.

but yeah.

if malkay wanted to buy a football club, he'd probably pass all the "tests" going off whats gone before.

:/

True but I still deciphered it more quickly than some of your more befuddling posts.

I don't like what you've done with the explanatory footnotes btw. Stop it, I like a puzzle!

[LeverEnd]

I think the other thing that annoys me about this is that it's indicative of how activists only go after low-hanging fruit these days. Pricks like Stan Collymore act like they've ended bigotry in football because they've driven out a manager who sent a few offensive texts. Meanwhile the 2018 World Cup is being held in the colorblind paradise of Russia, and the 2022 World Cup is being held in Qatar where it's illegal to be gay. But what a blow we've struck by blackballing Mackay.

This is true in some cases, but Leroy Rosenior was on the radio speaking for Kick It Out earlier. He made the valid point, without any hysteria, that mackay's case has not been dealt with by the FA yet. Now he's got to point this out, I would say he is duty-bound, some would say he has an agenda, which is also true. He didn't go over the top like Jason Roberts, who probably wants him publicly flogged (tarring and feathering is racist and avianist), he just made the point. If I were Whelan I'd point out that in an ideal world they'd wait but it has gone on too long and they need a manager and he needs a job. And then leave it.
Plus I'm not sure people want Mackay blackballed. I certainly don't, i'd have been quite ok with him being our manager had we not got Lennon.
Fair point on Qatar and Russia as well.

[bobo the clown]

↑↑↑↑ which are good points.

I fear this age of social media allows mob rule to erupt for sleights, real or imagined, large or small. I'm no fan of Whelan and am very much enjoying him being exposed as a doddering old tw@t with less grip on modern life than a time teavelling Victorian. Him continuing to dig has been funny too.

MacKay similarly seems an unpleasant man & those texts & tweet and emails were far from one offs and God knows what it was he spoke. Also, as pointed out, he went head to toe with the club's owner and tried to sweep the fans to hus side despite lying, overspending and performing poorly.

Tan is as mad as a box of frogs and vindictive to boot. But there are lots of bigger things to tackle & for me I'd focus all my real attention on Blatter and his corrupt shenanigans.

Meanwhile, watching Wiggin look confused is nice nonetheless.

i don't really understand why it isn't possible to be against the bigger thing and ALSO against the smaller thing...

Pederson is peddling a false dichotomy.

To "do a Bish" where did I say it wasn't ??

[H. Pedersen]

i don't really understand why it isn't possible to be against the bigger thing and ALSO against the smaller thing...

Pederson is peddling a false dichotomy.

It's clearly possible to be against the big thing and against the small thing. I just don't see any of these Twitter Warriors like Jason Roberts lining up Russia 2018 sponsor boycotts or organizing the March on Zurich. If these people were around in American in the 1950's they'd be saying "Yeah, that whole segregated schools thing is a problem, but I'm going to focus on harassing this guy with the lawn jockey."

[H. Pedersen]

I'm aware of Saville. Surely you're not comparing what he did to what Mackay did?

You know what? I had a little wager with myself that that would be exactly what you'd come back with. I might treat myself with my winnings. Where the feck have I compared their respective deeds?

Perhaps the Police here shouldn't have gone "digging through" records of what Saville had done in the same way that, according to you, Tam shouldn't have gone "digging through" Mackay's communications. They're of equal entitlement to do so. That's the point.

Well, I'd say the obvious difference is that Saville committed actual crimes with actual victims, which would not be the case with Mackay, so the comparison makes no sense.

I'm also not privy to the inner workings of the UK police force, but I'm guessing that they were acting on specific information and not on a wild goose chase to try to find something to embarrass him with.

[thebish]

↑↑↑↑ which are good points.

I fear this age of social media allows mob rule to erupt for sleights, real or imagined, large or small. I'm no fan of Whelan and am very much enjoying him being exposed as a doddering old tw@t with less grip on modern life than a time teavelling Victorian. Him continuing to dig has been funny too.

MacKay similarly seems an unpleasant man & those texts & tweet and emails were far from one offs and God knows what it was he spoke. Also, as pointed out, he went head to toe with the club's owner and tried to sweep the fans to hus side despite lying, overspending and performing poorly.

Tan is as mad as a box of frogs and vindictive to boot. But there are lots of bigger things to tackle & for me I'd focus all my real attention on Blatter and his corrupt shenanigans.

Meanwhile, watching Wiggin look confused is nice nonetheless.

i don't really understand why it isn't possible to be against the bigger thing and ALSO against the smaller thing...

Pederson is peddling a false dichotomy.

To "do a Bish" where did I say it wasn't ??

to do a "Bobo"... where did I say you said it was?

[thebish]

i don't really understand why it isn't possible to be against the bigger thing and ALSO against the smaller thing...

Pederson is peddling a false dichotomy.

It's clearly possible to be against the big thing and against the small thing.

so it's ok for people to not like McKay then, because of his tittish texts?

[thebish]

I'm aware of Saville. Surely you're not comparing what he did to what Mackay did?

You know what? I had a little wager with myself that that would be exactly what you'd come back with. I might treat myself with my winnings. Where the feck have I compared their respective deeds?

Perhaps the Police here shouldn't have gone "digging through" records of what Saville had done in the same way that, according to you, Tam shouldn't have gone "digging through" Mackay's communications. They're of equal entitlement to do so. That's the point.

Well, I'd say the obvious difference is that Saville committed actual crimes with actual victims, which would not be the case with Mackay, so the comparison makes no sense.

I'm also not privy to the inner workings of the UK police force, but I'm guessing that they were acting on specific information and not on a wild goose chase to try to find something to embarrass him with.

just to be clear... are you actually saying that Tan illegally hacked Mackay's personal phone - or merely that he found material on his work-based equipment?

[Bruce Rioja]

I'm aware of Saville. Surely you're not comparing what he did to what Mackay did?

You know what? I had a little wager with myself that that would be exactly what you'd come back with. I might treat myself with my winnings. Where the feck have I compared their respective deeds?

Perhaps the Police here shouldn't have gone "digging through" records of what Saville had done in the same way that, according to you, Tam shouldn't have gone "digging through" Mackay's communications. They're of equal entitlement to do so. That's the point.

Well, I'd say the obvious difference is that Saville committed actual crimes with actual victims, which would not be the case with Mackay, so the comparison makes no sense.

No. That wasn't, nor isn't the point at all. Don't try to fudge the issue. Your grief was, although isn't now for some reason, the way in which the issue was investigated. Not the severity of the crime itself, or whether or not it is one, but the way by which it was investigated.

[H. Pedersen]

just to be clear... are you actually saying that Tan illegally hacked Mackay's personal phone - or merely that he found material on his work-based equipment?

I'm aware that Tan didn't do anything illegal. I think that trying to ruin a man's life six months after he's left your club is much worse than saying "not a lot of white faces."