European Finals.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:55 pm

Euro 96. lol. That team absolutely pisses all over this group of overplayed and overrated players.

Declan Rice playing for England is probably akin to Carlton Palmer. He plays for West Ham though. So it’s ok.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by Burnden Paddock » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:56 pm

What an utter fecking shit show! No urgency whatsoever. Nobody wanting to take charge and completely toothless. Not a chance we’re getting anywhere near the final.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by TANGODANCER » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:01 pm

Can't blame Scotland. Starting as underdogs, they played well and with some spirit. Our right side produced zilch and Sterling doesn't seem half as hungry as he was. Nothing wrong with Kane, jus the tippy tappy half-pace game plan. Foden really shone, so off he comes. Midfield non-productive, so put Lachford up with Kane and hammer the box. That England side won't win any cigars and the elite boys will tear us to ribbons. A good chance to qualify and be done with was wasted. If we don't shape, the only thing coming home will be the plane with us on it.
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Re: European Finals.

Post by Prufrock » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:04 pm

Sack the coward.

That game was a success. He got what he wanted. I will never understand Kane for Rashford until the day I die.

The was honestly worse than Iceland. At least there was pressure on that game.

Genuinely pathetic.
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Re: European Finals.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:07 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:04 pm
Sack the coward.

That game was a success. He got what he wanted. I will never understand Kane for Rashford until the day I die.

The was honestly worse than Iceland. At least there was pressure on that game.

Genuinely pathetic.
Kane was awful. It’s not just the manager. You name me who is our midfield player capable of playing toe to toe with the top sides? Our midfield is bottom three relegation stuff. Overrated players all over the show.

We aren’t setup right but if Declan Rice is all we’ve got for me that’s the lowest point I can remember. The 96 midfield, since, Gazza, Mcmannaman and Anderton. It’s a joke the lot we are playing right now.

Foden was our best player and was taken off and I have no idea why. But fundamentally you need a midfield and I don’t see a combination of a midfield that even matches Scotland in there. Seriously we are woeful.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:07 pm

Shambles from the manager. He made every player worse today.

All our good play happens when we get Mount and Phillips into the channels to create overloads, but they are both clearly under instructions to stay back until triggered. They have to just be allowed to make those runs. Then Scotland sit into a low block and he throws in Rashford, who is only of use as a central striker if he can run in behind a high line. Oh, is the entire system handicapping the players? Best stick Grealish on and tell him to pin himself to the left wing to handicap him too.

Just....uch.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:32 pm

Regarding Kane, we left him isolated. He did what he always does, which is drop off to look for the ball. At that point he walked into 3 Scottish mids....and was still isolated.

He's not 100%, but everything we did made him worse. Kane either needs service if he's up top or runners past him if he drops off. He had neither.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:36 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:32 pm
Regarding Kane, we left him isolated. He did what he always does, which is drop off to look for the ball. At that point he walked into 3 Scottish mids....and was still isolated.

He's not 100%, but everything we did made him worse. Kane either needs service if he's up top or runners past him if he drops off. He had neither.
Yup. But he still don't look quite right, either... :-)

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Re: European Finals.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:39 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:36 pm
Yup. But he still don't look quite right, either... :-)
Like I say, he's not 100%.

We saw the same thing with Lewandowski for Poland.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:07 pm

Theres a lot to criticize Southgate for on this showing, but not having it that those on the pitch worked anything like hard enough.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:07 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:19 am
beating England is almost a fanatical religion amongst the Scots. We need to be careful (remember Iceland in 2016!).
And thereby hangs the tale. To Scotland , playing (and beating) England is their World Cup final . They may go no further -as might we if we don't sort ourselves out- but the passion level is never higher than facing "the auld enemy". The game, in retrospect, was an absolute cert 0-0 draw; to them "Bannockburn 2021", to our "Sassenachs" they were probably on their mobiles looking what position Robert Bruce was playing. We were lucky to get a point.
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Re: European Finals.

Post by The_Gun » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:33 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:07 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:19 am
beating England is almost a fanatical religion amongst the Scots. We need to be careful (remember Iceland in 2016!).
And thereby hangs the tale. To Scotland , playing (and beating) England is their World Cup final . They may go no further -as might we if we don't sort ourselves out- but the passion level is never higher than facing "the auld enemy". The game, in retrospect, was an absolute cert 0-0 draw; to them "Bannockburn 2021", to our "Sassenachs" they were probably on their mobiles looking what position Robert Bruce was playing. We were lucky to get a point.
Meh, I accept that it was a big occasion for Scotland, but the talent disparity between the two squads is such that England should have overcome that.

I think the starting lineup Southgate picked was fine, but his strange reluctance to use the attacking talent on the bench was baffling. Why wouldn’t he bring on DCL and Sancho towards the end of the game?

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Re: European Finals.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:52 am

The_Gun wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:33 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:07 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:19 am
beating England is almost a fanatical religion amongst the Scots. We need to be careful (remember Iceland in 2016!).
And thereby hangs the tale. To Scotland , playing (and beating) England is their World Cup final . They may go no further -as might we if we don't sort ourselves out- but the passion level is never higher than facing "the auld enemy". The game, in retrospect, was an absolute cert 0-0 draw; to them "Bannockburn 2021", to our "Sassenachs" they were probably on their mobiles looking what position Robert Bruce was playing. We were lucky to get a point.
Meh, I accept that it was a big occasion for Scotland, but the talent disparity between the two squads is such that England should have overcome that.

I think the starting lineup Southgate picked was fine, but his strange reluctance to use the attacking talent on the bench was baffling. Why wouldn’t he bring on DCL and Sancho towards the end of the game?
In the key area midfield Scotland have a better player than anything we have picked in there. So I’m not convinced there is this huge disparity in quality. Attacking three yes but we are so bad in midfield that doesn’t matter. The defences I’m not convinced are all that different but again when you have no control on the game and can’t play through midfield however much better your back four is becomes a bit irrelevant.

England as a side are passable at the back. Obviously full of talent on the front three. But then there is a massive hole in midfield where we are awful. I mean really really awful. And I’m not sure what can be done because the players aren’t there. Fully fit Henderson would help but not completely solve the issue. There is no dynamism in there. No movement. On and off the ball it’s slow and very very passive. We look like we are playing 4 centre halves and in reality at this level I think that’s more or less what we are doing. Kane not having any form and looking like he can’t run isn’t helping but my primary concern going into the tournament was we had nothing like a midfield that could compete in a tournament and so far it looks exactly like that.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by The_Gun » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:06 am

Unadulterated nonsense from you as usual. Rice and Phillips are top level players, but both do tend to play quite similar roles, so I can accept people saying they might not be the most natural pairing.

Mason Mount is also one of the best midfielders in the premier league and one of the most important players for the CL winners. I don’t think I’ve heard anyone else describe him as ‘awful’.

Our primary problem is quite evidently tactics and how to get the best out of our squad.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by Prufrock » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:39 am

Exactly. It comes from the manager. BWFC is right in a sense that at times it was like having 4CBs but that's tactical not quality.

I'm convinced he's happy with that though. We're now pretty much guaranteed to go through, he said after the game if you can't win don't lose.

The lack of ambition was criminal, as was the risk reward. Sterling was awful, played 90. Phillips and Rice didn't play well, are too similar, and don't have the creativity to open up teams like that. Both played 90. He brought Grealish on, but took off one of the only players he could link with.

And I don't get Kane. He's just trying to play like he does for Spurs but he hasn't got Bale and Son or anyone running in behind. I can't believe he would ignore instructions so they're just not telling him to be in the box. And against a team sitting back, Rashford for Kane I will never ever ever understand.

But again, I think he was happy with the point. There was one point with about 80 gone where Robertson and Tierney were 10 yards inside our half just walking knocking it between themselves. They then rolled it into midfield and same again. We were happy to let them have it.

I watched Brazil-Venezuela the other night where Brazil played two holding midfielders against Covid ravaged Venezuela and dug out a dour 2-0. Brazil have a moral responsibility to be entertaining ffs.

And it's similar got the England manager. You've not taken Middlesbrough away to Old Trafford and got a "decent point" Gareth. You're the fecking England manager. Against Scotland. You've got 30m people watching that and the fecking cowardice to take a 0-0. There's a Scottish guy in my football team WhatsApp I'm going to have to kick out of the group for a month now.

And for what risk. If you go for it I genuinely think we win that game more than 9/10. Even on the tiny chance you lose to a team who haven't scored an international goal since before the Act of The Union you've already got three points and another chance against the Czechs.

Pathetic.
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Re: European Finals.

Post by Prufrock » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:45 am

He doesn't pass the eye test either. Someone talking about Evatt the other day said he never does anything that looks completely mad. That is true of him and Parky, and not true of every other (shit) manager we've had since Sam. And it's not true of Southgate.

Trippier at left back. Phillips playing higher (worked against Croatia, was awful last night). Foden on the right. Play them whether they play for their clubs.

We've got one right winger in the entire squad. Who's absolutely class btw. And hasn't played a minute yet.
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Re: European Finals.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:58 am

The_Gun wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:06 am
Unadulterated nonsense from you as usual. Rice and Phillips are top level players, but both do tend to play quite similar roles, so I can accept people saying they might not be the most natural pairing.

Mason Mount is also one of the best midfielders in the premier league and one of the most important players for the CL winners. I don’t think I’ve heard anyone else describe him as ‘awful’.

Our primary problem is quite evidently tactics and how to get the best out of our squad.
Which of these players dominates the centre of midfield for their club? They have specific roles. But international football and England demand players who can get on the ball and make things happen and offer a level of control. Rice hid from the ball and seems incredibly passive off it. Phillips is not a box to box midfield player and Mount is surrounded by world class midfield at Chelsea. None of these players are what I’d call proper midfield players who control the middle of the pitch.

And in spite of your rudeness I’d suggest politely you watch the game last night and look at what I said about the midfield Pre tournament. I’d say I predicted it pretty well. We are short in this area and even the most positive of managers would struggle with this group in there.

I’ve not watched Bellingham much but might be worth a go as I don’t see us knocking anyone out as it stands.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:00 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:39 am
Exactly. It comes from the manager. BWFC is right in a sense that at times it was like having 4CBs but that's tactical not quality.

I'm convinced he's happy with that though. We're now pretty much guaranteed to go through, he said after the game if you can't win don't lose.

The lack of ambition was criminal, as was the risk reward. Sterling was awful, played 90. Phillips and Rice didn't play well, are too similar, and don't have the creativity to open up teams like that. Both played 90. He brought Grealish on, but took off one of the only players he could link with.

And I don't get Kane. He's just trying to play like he does for Spurs but he hasn't got Bale and Son or anyone running in behind. I can't believe he would ignore instructions so they're just not telling him to be in the box. And against a team sitting back, Rashford for Kane I will never ever ever understand.

But again, I think he was happy with the point. There was one point with about 80 gone where Robertson and Tierney were 10 yards inside our half just walking knocking it between themselves. They then rolled it into midfield and same again. We were happy to let them have it.

I watched Brazil-Venezuela the other night where Brazil played two holding midfielders against Covid ravaged Venezuela and dug out a dour 2-0. Brazil have a moral responsibility to be entertaining ffs.

And it's similar got the England manager. You've not taken Middlesbrough away to Old Trafford and got a "decent point" Gareth. You're the fecking England manager. Against Scotland. You've got 30m people watching that and the fecking cowardice to take a 0-0. There's a Scottish guy in my football team WhatsApp I'm going to have to kick out of the group for a month now.

And for what risk. If you go for it I genuinely think we win that game more than 9/10. Even on the tiny chance you lose to a team who haven't scored an international goal since before the Act of The Union you've already got three points and another chance against the Czechs.

Pathetic.
It’s not tactical entirely. Last night Mings was screaming at Rice to come and give him an option and Rice went the other way and hid from the ball. If Rice is a midfield player in ability terms at this level then he has to always be taking the ball and passing and moving. He has to also make his presence felt in there off the ball. None of that is tactical. It’s a player being asked to play at a level and with a responsibility to which they either aren’t capable or ready for.

Phillips being asked to be the box to box player is tactical but at least he tried and just lacks the ability to do it.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:08 pm

From evidence thus far I’d pick…

Pickford
Trippier
Stones
Mings
Chilwell
Phillips
Grealish
Foden
Sancho/Saka
Kane
Sterling

I’d play Foden off Kane as a number 10. 4231. We might as well go for it. Grealish can do the midfield ball carrying job. Unless someone thinks Bellingham is better? Or Henderson is fit.

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Re: European Finals.

Post by Prufrock » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:15 pm

All right, Owen.
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Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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