Pies in administration

[GhostoftheBok]

The fact the EFL can see statements relating to a foreign account with money in it is meaningless. None of that money is an an account the club can access to make payments and until it is it might as well on on the moon. There seems to be no evidence they can even pay the next round of wages.

If the owner can't put enough money to cover wages in an account to avoid a points deduction what chance is there they have 10m+?

[GhostoftheBok]

3PL, who sponsor the Wigan academy and are one of the biggest sponsors in pure cash terms, have pulled out.

That's after today's club press release cited that "the 3PL Academy" would be at the heart of the rebuild.

What a mess.

[Prufrock]

They seem fecked. I hope they survive, but wouldn't be against some suffering.

We only just held on though, I'm not particularly hopeful for them.

[GhostoftheBok]

They seem fecked. I hope they survive, but wouldn't be against some suffering.

We only just held on though, I'm not particularly hopeful for them.

I understand people enjoying it after their "ice cream and jelly" lot.

Wigan's natural level now is League One. Like us they became addicted to spending under a benefactor and that's hard to break.

If they want to be sustainable they're probably looking long term at expenditure similar to Lincoln City, rather than Sheffield Wednesday.

I hope they stay in existence and can figure it out.

[Prufrock]

I think that's true but getting back to L1 after you've waffed it all is tricky. Our floor was L2, touch and go. Theirs is oblivion.

[Worthy4England]

There's a lot of statements that don't add up. Regarding the +10m, he's supposed to have recently flogged £33m of real estate in London. So it that's taken at face value and that the transaction didn't complete as fast as he thought, that would cover the possibility he has a few bob.

But then it gets more bizarre. At the minute they're operating at 235% of champo Revenue, next season their moving feast is to be no more thar 120% of L1 revenue. They're going to have 10/11 academy players in 1st team squad, but they had 19 players retained and 2 offered fresh terms...supposedly with a load of contracts containing promotion increases but few with relegation clauses...this set of snippets all seem to be pointing at diametrically opposite compass points..

[GhostoftheBok]

This is "pinch of salt" stuff, but having spoken to someone who should know it sounds like the retained list was drawn up without the club knowing about this 65% slash in spending. The club expected (or maybe hoped) all the money was going to be there by now and they've been working on the understanding the budget would drop, but nowhere near that much and not all at once.

A 65% cut vs last season would have them at under £8m. Their promotion season they were spending around £13m. So even with massive player cuts they don't get close to the savings needed. They could only get there with staff cuts on both sides of the business.

[Worthy4England]

Yeah, but if they max out at 120% of L1 revenue, which was one of other statements, they had £8.3m last time out so they'd be at ~10m all in...like I think we're both concluding, doesn't add up...

[GhostoftheBok]

Yeah, but if they max out at 120% of L1 revenue, which was one of other statements, they had £8.3m last time out so they'd be at ~10m all in...like I think we're both concluding, doesn't add up...

To get their costs down enough they need to go from about a £25m football operation to something akin to AFC Wimbledon in a single summer.

That's without having planned for it in advance.

Can you imagine? "Hey, football guys, cut your budgets by 65% within the next 4 weeks and don't forget to remain competitive in a League One promotion race. Also, we've already cost you -8 points."

It clearly doesn't add up, you are right; but it's also just absurd. It sounds like desperate chancers who have been found out and are panicking. I am working under the assumption the owner has bought the club with borrowed funds and is now up shit creek. He's also currently trying to sell the paddle.

[officer_dibble]

I genuinely think the owner is some fella who is as ‘sheikh’ as the Geordie’s walking round with tea towels on their heads. He’s hoodwinked everyone, for what gain I don’t know.

[GhostoftheBok]

I genuinely think the owner is some fella who is as ‘sheikh’ as the Geordie’s walking round with tea towels on their heads. He’s hoodwinked everyone, for what gain I don’t know.

It feels like he's borrowed money to gamble on getting a football club up and selling it for a profit.

I find it very difficult to believe he's genuinely wealthy. I think he's just juggling assets and debt.

[BWFC_Insane]

I genuinely think the owner is some fella who is as ‘sheikh’ as the Geordie’s walking round with tea towels on their heads. He’s hoodwinked everyone, for what gain I don’t know.

It feels like he's borrowed money to gamble on getting a football club up and selling it for a profit.

I find it very difficult to believe he's genuinely wealthy. I think he's just juggling assets and debt.

I mean what’s wealthy? Lots of people worth billions could chuck tens of millions of pounds into football clubs at will. It depends how the wealth is actually held.

And of course the relative level of wealth.

If I had a business worth hundreds of millions and I sold it and planned to live modestly off the interest I could plough a lot into Bolton wanderers without ever expecting it back.

If my living was contingent on owning a business worth several hundreds of millions and I couldn’t of didn’t want to sell it my ability is very different to invest in a football club…

There is of course the other factor….willingness…

It’s one thing doing it for a year, then another year…but what happens when people keep asking for the cheques…maybe they told you after you went up you’d be quids in?

[GhostoftheBok]

If you can't find £2m to fulfil a legal bond, you're not wealthy.

[GhostoftheBok]

For all the positive spin from Wigan things sound grim.

If the funds exist they are leveraged against assets, not from existing cash reserves. The owners do not have meaningful liquidity.

The owners are prepared to back the club to a maximum of £3m a year going forward. They are on target right now to lose about £10m+.

They have a tax bill coming due and are currently in talks with HMRC.

If the initial funds go in they can avoid a winding-up petition and operate for a while, but the "enough funds for the season" claim assumes they can sell a load of first team players. If not, it's just a stay of execution.

[Harry Genshaw]

Will they hang onto sell their best players or be glad to let them go for next to nowt, to get their wages off the books?

When those players, including McLean, recently signed 1 year extensions, I assumed things weren't as grim as they seemed. However, the suggestion is these were automatic extensions that were triggered due to appearances. I wonder if they'll be at Champ or League 1 levels of salary?

[GhostoftheBok]

Will they hang onto sell their best players or be glad to let them go for next to nowt, to get their wages off the books?

When those players, including McLean, recently signed 1 year extensions, I assumed things weren't as grim as they seemed. However, the suggestion is these were automatic extensions that were triggered due to appearances. I wonder if they'll be at Champ or League 1 levels of salary?

Some contracts did automatically renew, yes. That means they are locked in on the full Championship rates as I think it's common knowledge now that Wigan included fairly hefty promotion increases with no matching relegation clauses. In McLean's case, he got a new deal when they went up that was significantly more than his first one, which was already high for this level.

As the other Markham put it in that chat he didn't realise was being taped they've been a "soft touch" and the owners had no idea what their players were going to be paid after promotion.

Hell of a way to run a football club.

[Prufrock]

For all the positive spin from Wigan things sound grim.

If the funds exist they are leveraged against assets, not from existing cash reserves. The owners do not have meaningful liquidity.

The owners are prepared to back the club to a maximum of £3m a year going forward. They are on target right now to lose about £10m+.

They have a tax bill coming due and are currently in talks with HMRC.

If the initial funds go in they can avoid a winding-up petition and operate for a while, but the "enough funds for the season" claim assumes they can sell a load of first team players. If not, it's just a stay of execution.

I mean at this point "best case" for them is that they've got the cash but the owners are too useless to avoid an easy out for an 8 point deduction. I mean...

Not buying liquidity at this point. They've had long enough. Screams fecked to me.

Haven't seen any odds for next year yet, but the only other thing stopping me lumping on is that the might not make it far enough to get relegated.

[GhostoftheBok]

I mean at this point "best case" for them is that they've got the cash but the owners are too useless to avoid an easy out for an 8 point deduction. I mean...

Not buying liquidity at this point. They've had long enough. Screams fecked to me.

The absolute best case appears to be that the owners have put up their entire UK portfolio as collateral to raise not enough money to fund the club through next season.

The worst case is the money they can "see" isn't real and HMRC will be on them like a pack of dogs.

[Worthy4England]

Feels a bit more binary to me. Either he's flogged a £33m piece of Real Estate in London and a proportion of that is going to cover the bar bill Or he hasn't and it won't They've not been "without significant investment" in his so far history...

[Worthy4England]

Oh and.HMRC couldn't find their arse with a map if it doesn't have a National Insurance number.. they guy could give his address as a laundry...