Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

There ARE other teams(we'd have no-one to play otherwise) and here's where all-comers can discuss the wider world of football......

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Harry Genshaw
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Re: Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:17 pm

Gooner Girl wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:32 pm

If Bolton got booted out the domestic league and only had the ESL would you still not go?
Easy for me to say, I suppose but no, I wouldn't go. I just couldn't show any kind of support for something that I was so fundamentally opposed to. I know that lots of those protesting now will still end up subscribing to Amazon, Disney channel or whatever but in there position I couldn't be part of it.

Mind you I'm a stubborn bugger. I had an ST from 1982 to 2004 and then stopped going altogether after the carling Cup ticket fiasco. Like quitting smoking, the early days are the worst but then you get used to it.
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Re: Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:21 pm

It's not like anyone's looking to boot these teams out for no reason. It's only become a thing because these teams have said "we're setting our own playground up, you can't play in it"...

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Re: Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:56 pm

Gooner Girl wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:33 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:01 am
Gooner Girl wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:21 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:19 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:11 am
I doubt any bugger would resign until they have more details. Other Prem League teams meet today. I'm hoping, but not expecting some spine to be shown by the Prem, UEFA and some of the governing bodies. They should start with the League Cup final, but they probably won't. Parky didn't immediately walk out when players weren't getting paid, he tried to arbitrate first...
Parky stayed out of loyalty to the players. Which I admire. Would have been easy for him to walk as he wasn’t being paid at times either.

I think the situations are somewhat different. Not that I necessarily expect Klopp to have resigned I merely don’t agree with him that owners can be totally disassociated from clubs. He stood there representing them. That’s his choice. And nobody was giving him flak. But it’s of course right that Liverpool football club is given flak.
Would you find it fair if you were hauled up in work and given stick for something your boss had done without you knowing that you didn’t approve of?
That happens every single day in every workplace. The difference here is nobody is saying that its Klopp's fault. Merely that the clubs and owners can't be separated. You can't say Liverpool are great but their owners are awful whilst Liverpool as a club continue to take the money offered by their owners. And the action open to Klopp is to resign - if he chooses to. If he doesn't then he has to accept the club as a whole is branded right now. Everyone knows its the actions of owners BUT clubs are owners and owners are clubs in the legal and business sense. I didn't hear anyone a fuss made at clubs where owners leave them in administration - we have to take the punishment for years even after the owner has left. Even though the players, manager, fans and the like had nothing to do with it. Are you saying big clubs should be so privileged that their owners and their actions are disassociated from the club and consequences (except for their ongoing funding of the club) yet smaller clubs are right to be punished for what their owners did to them?

What's happening is the fans of these clubs and fans up and down the country are being shafted by the owners of 6 football clubs. But these 6 clubs have not just done this - this has been building for decades and is a result of greed at the top of the game. Its not a brand new thing and the clubs as a whole have not exactly turned down the cash injections or foreign investments. The culture around British football is to blame as much as anything. The only reason these clubs need more money is because they do the very thing people scoff at Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan, Stoke for doing - they spend a LOT of money to try and stay in the gravy boat of the top 4. And when they slip up they tend to spend more to get back in. And what they want is that money guaranteed - and in their control. But they've not exactly been supportive when smaller clubs have struggled for the same reasons. So I do find I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone apart from the fans in these scenarios. Players and their agents and their increasing wage demands, managers spending hundreds of millions then saying they need more, owners wanting to protect their investments and reduce competition - they've all contributed to this.

I’m not saying anything of the sort. I think you were just a bit harsh on Klopp who was clearly a bit on the back foot and may yet be more vocal/resign over this. It’s no big jump to presume that talks are going on behind the scenes with players/managers from all clubs wishing to put out some kind of statement as a united front. Just because noones ‘walked’ yet doesn’t mean they all approve or no action will be taken. That’s all I was saying.

I don’t agree with this, I think it’s a terrible idea and if FA, UEFA etc chose to sanction my club then that’s fine by me. They deserve it for being so greedy (though pot/kettle re UEFA frankly) I’ll still follow them whatever division they might end up in. You still followed your club even when they had a knob head owner/chairman?

What’s more of an interesting question, and one which I’ve not figured out yet the answer too is if say Bolton were the club doing this how would your support fare, any of you? Would you abandon them as a fan completely? Would you want to watch their games in the super league?
Obviously hypotheticals are very difficult to answer but I'm pretty certain of my conviction that IF Bolton were one of the 6 I'd not support the club full stop. I supported the CLUB when Anderson was here because at the end it was clear it was a battle of survival - against Anderson and against administration etc....I wanted to help the club with what little I could do (money to keep it afloat). Because its my club.

BUT if we had some multi billionaire owner who took over and took us up to the premiership and we suddenly were riding high and formed part of a breakaway league like this - I'd stop. I'd have no interest. None at all. Though I'd be mighty angry that my club was taken away from me. But here's why....

1) In said scenario the club would be no more than a franchise in the hands of a billionaire owner. They wouldn't be rooted in the history of the football club OR inside the historical regulatory football bodies. It would be about making money. If I kept supporting that and watching it - what when the inevitable happened in 3 or 4 or 5 years time and someone said - this needs to be a world league so we're making Bolton Wanderers - Bollywood Wheels and they will play in India from now on (but hey you can keep buying season tickets to watch on Disney Plus (and buy Disney plus on top) and Arsenal will be the Aussie Astronauts.....etc...I couldn't complain I'd have no agency, no fists in the fight. I'd already accepted my club was a franchise.

2) I'd have absolutely no interest in seeing my team play in a closed or semi-closed shop without the weird and wonderful variety football brings. I definitely don't want to be in league 2 but barring Covid I'd have been at Grimsby like a shot Saturday. And loved it (inspite of the score). This is part of the game and it would be taken away. Watching us play Real Madrid etc should be a treat - a once in a decade thing - not - lets do it every month. Who wants to watch their team play the same 15 other teams all the time with only a very minor change to that out of a small pool....and when everyone realises its going stale the next move will be to switch to the IPL franchise model, introduce new franchises, have player drafting (more televisual charged spectacles etc)....and basically break down everything about the nature and origin of these clubs. Again I've let it happen.

3) If essentially I never have to worry much about results safe in the knowledge we're in the pool and even if we got knocked out this year we're back next time or we go into ESL B for a while but still get loadsa cash and will go back up at some point and the worst that can happen is the other clubs decide to vote us out forever (probably because we beat them) or Joel Glazer decides he wants to swap us for Pennsylvania pansies a new franchise he wants to introduce and we're out for good and no longer able to compete anywhere else ...it has nothing to do with my club fighting for results. Nothing. We'd be at the whim of a few giant clubs.

4) American broadcaster decides the games need to be played at the optimal time for their main audience in Asia or the US or whatever. I either watch my team at 2am or lunchtime on a Wednesday or I don't. Again its my fault. Even if we still have a homematch its when I'm at work or in bed. And we can't complain because ALL our income and future is staked on the American TV network pumping their money in. My ticket purchase or sub is neither here nor there to them.

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Re: Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:06 pm

Gooner Girl wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:33 am

What’s more of an interesting question, and one which I’ve not figured out yet the answer too is if say Bolton were the club doing this how would your support fare, any of you? Would you abandon them as a fan completely? Would you want to watch their games in the super league?
Superb question. I honestly think the answer, if 'an' answer exists would be generationally based.
I listened to a report on the radio a couple of years ago that absolutely stunned me. It stated that more kids learn the rules of football now from playing computer games than by actually playing football.
Is there not now a generation so disenfranchised from the true 'values' of the game as we know them that they'd love to be part of some super league, whereas us joining it would see someone like me actually drop the only true constant (outside of family) in my entire life, in absolute disgust and with insurmountable upset, if we were to be involved?!
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Re: Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

Post by Prufrock » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:26 pm

I love that one of BWFCi's answers is that there would basically be no risk of disaster :D

I wouldn't follow them. I'd be off to AFC Bolton or whatever. FWIW and it's easy for them to say now but every fan of the traitor teams I know that I've spoken to says they want no part in it and will stop following. That's a range from pretty die hard to sofa fans, and mid 20s to mid 30s.

Bad owners come and go. There would be no coming back from this.

I agree with Neville (eesh), City are the ones to get after. The money is nothing to them, the whole thing is about sports washing Abu Dhabi's reputation to them. If they can be convinced this makes them the "bad guys" they're probably the easiest to wobble. The cash means a lot more to the rest.
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Re: Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:35 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:26 pm
I love that one of BWFCi's answers is that there would basically be no risk of disaster :D

I wouldn't follow them. I'd be off to AFC Bolton or whatever. FWIW and it's easy for them to say now but every fan of the traitor teams I know that I've spoken to says they want no part in it and will stop following. That's a range from pretty die hard to sofa fans, and mid 20s to mid 30s.

Bad owners come and go. There would be no coming back from this.

I agree with Neville (eesh), City are the ones to get after. The money is nothing to them, the whole thing is about sports washing Abu Dhabi's reputation to them. If they can be convinced this makes them the "bad guys" they're probably the easiest to wobble. The cash means a lot more to the rest.
Well the peril and potential for failure is part of football. Surviving in the last day of the championship resulted in a joyous pitch invasion. One of the best days to be a Bolton fan. This would take such things away. And that's unacceptable to me.

I agree that City are the easiest to topple here, for reasons you've outlined, also because I suspect that most of their motive in this is getting back at UEFA but they won't want the grief. Whoever blinks first from the 6 has a distinct advantage.

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Re: Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

Post by Prufrock » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:52 pm

Oh I know and agree, it was just very on brand :D
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Re: Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:43 pm

Gooner Girl wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:01 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:22 pm
Gooner Girl wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:25 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:21 pm
Gooner Girl wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:05 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:53 pm

Not at all. It's more wind and rain than cold here. Out of the times I've felt really cold in the last couple of decades, 2 of the standouts were the away end at Fulham. The fact that we're consistently dire there may have a psychological effect :)
I’ve seen you win there! Admittedly it was back in 2007 but a cracking good game!
I saw us win there too. It was the cup and I just wanted either team to score so I wouldn't have to endure extra time. Unfortunately we waited for extra time to score. To add insult to injury the beer ran out at half time as I got to the front of the queue. The tube was screwed up that night which meant I missed pre match pints and I didn't get home until well after midnight. Shit nigh despite winning :evil:
Were we at the same match? Al Habsi had a stormer in goal? That was an extra time winner in the league cup. You can’t have had too many of them at Fulham!
Probably the same evening. Wasn't many in the ground. GtE was there and my Bolton supporting Spanish mate was in tow
Aye. Bish too. Got a vague feeling we may have been introduced. But it was about 13 years ago! :shock:
Can't recall if Bish was there that night. Pretty sure I was sat with him for a daytime match at Fulham when Jay Jay's sister was sat near us. Bloody long time ago and I can't even remember what I had for tea last night :)

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Re: Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

Post by Gooner Girl » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:09 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:06 pm
Gooner Girl wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:33 am

What’s more of an interesting question, and one which I’ve not figured out yet the answer too is if say Bolton were the club doing this how would your support fare, any of you? Would you abandon them as a fan completely? Would you want to watch their games in the super league?
Superb question. I honestly think the answer, if 'an' answer exists would be generationally based.
I listened to a report on the radio a couple of years ago that absolutely stunned me. It stated that more kids learn the rules of football now from playing computer games than by actually playing football.
Is there not now a generation so disenfranchised from the true 'values' of the game as we know them that they'd love to be part of some super league, whereas us joining it would see someone like me actually drop the only true constant (outside of family) in my entire life, in absolute disgust and with insurmountable upset, if we were to be involved?!
I know it may be a moot point now hopefully anyway but it’s interesting to hear you also think there may be a youth/elder divide over the idea too. It’s a bit before my time but didn’t the premier league formation in 92(?) cause some controversy at the time too?

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Re: Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

Post by Burnden Paddock » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:20 pm

Gooner Girl wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:09 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:06 pm
Gooner Girl wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:33 am

What’s more of an interesting question, and one which I’ve not figured out yet the answer too is if say Bolton were the club doing this how would your support fare, any of you? Would you abandon them as a fan completely? Would you want to watch their games in the super league?
Superb question. I honestly think the answer, if 'an' answer exists would be generationally based.
I listened to a report on the radio a couple of years ago that absolutely stunned me. It stated that more kids learn the rules of football now from playing computer games than by actually playing football.
Is there not now a generation so disenfranchised from the true 'values' of the game as we know them that they'd love to be part of some super league, whereas us joining it would see someone like me actually drop the only true constant (outside of family) in my entire life, in absolute disgust and with insurmountable upset, if we were to be involved?!
I know it may be a moot point now hopefully anyway but it’s interesting to hear you also think there may be a youth/elder divide over the idea too. It’s a bit before my time but didn’t the premier league formation in 92(?) cause some controversy at the time too?

Perez was trying to sell the ESL on the strength that youngsters weren’t interested in football any longer and the only way to re-engage them was miraculously via the medium of his mega £BN deal! 🤔

In terms of the birth of the PL, yes it was controversial in terms of taking the live game away from terrestrial TV, but we only saw a handful of games each year. We suddenly had a jazzed up ‘product’ with access to 2/3/4 live games each week, as long as we were willing to subscribe. It was great for a while and soon reached saturation point. After a while nobody outside of each club wanted to watch Norwich v Leicester, West Brom v Palace or Arsenal v Spurs. 😉 Even MOTD with their top 10’s don’t acknowledge anything pre 1992, which buys into the notion that this was when football started. At least sky wasn’t anti-competition and as blatantly stacked in favour of the big 6 as the now seemingly doomed ESL!

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Re: Dulux. New Spurs sponsors

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:10 pm

Sky was the thin end of the wedge that led to this weeks nonsense. Up until then away teams got a 3rd of gate receipts. Matches were shifted to different days and the best teams (& occasionally Spurs too) barely played on a Saturday any more.

The champions league and the Co efficients used meant formerly great European sides, Ajax, Anderlecht, Celtic, CSKA, AEK Athens struggled to qualify, whereas 4th placed sides in England were straight into the lucrative group stages.

This all meant the lions share of the cash stayed in the hands of the sides thar pushed for the CL (the G8?). This weeks proposal was just an extension of those ambitions.
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