Vale of tears or happy valley? Port Vale (A) Sat 22 Apr 3pm

[Peter Thompson]

When news came though of Madine starting today, the mood / confidence improved 100% - similar to walking into the ground at Fleetwood hearing Pratley was starting & Karacan was on the bench.

He gets some stick but most Bolton fans know when he plays we win - so if he plays next Sunday and we go up he'll be lauded and rightly so....he's a player that divides opinion but who could be very good, and deep down we all want to like him as he could be a very decent player if he really put his mind to it.

I actually think when he's on it, and if he really wants it he could be a very good player because he's half decent with the ball to feet, and hopefully as he matures its BWFC who will benefit from it.

[Harry Genshaw]

See I agree with that. His inclusion today gave the supporters a lift and I daresay his teammates too. For me though today he was totally ineffective. Winning nothing and not even working hard. ALF worked his socks off, linking well with Morais, and pressuring the fullbacks.

Decent game by Karacan. Another hour under his belt which should stand us in good stead next weekend

[DJBlu]

See I agree with that. His inclusion today gave the supporters a lift and I daresay his teammates too. For me though today he was totally ineffective. Winning nothing and not even working hard. ALF worked his socks off, linking well with Morais, and pressuring the fullbacks.

Decent game by Karacan. Another hour under his belt which should stand us in good stead next weekend

What about the goal he scored? How is that not effective?

[Tombwfc]

The reality is we were no better or worse today than we were at Scunthorpe, but we kept a clean sheet and a got a set-piece to land on the head of one of our centre halves. That has been the story of our season, and why we are where we are, not Gary Madine.

Madine played through the pain and scored, so fair all credit to him for that. But please can we not seriously talk ourselves into believing he's that crucial to this team, and should be starting next season as our centre forward.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

Great win today, totally delighted.

Madine was very brave to play when in obvious discomfort, but jeez, he is not close to POTY. Wheater, Beevers, Vela are all way ahead. For a lot of this season we have carried our non-scoring, non-assisting, non-creating centre forward. 65 goals in 45 games does not typically get you promoted. And 16 of those have come from defenders. The reason we cannot function without him now, is that Parky has had to come up with a system of playing in a very short space of time (early Feb - early Mar), after losing our two key players and a load of new ones coming in, plus some returning from injury. That system is a direct style that totally relies on a target man up front. And we don't have another one. Madine has not been consistently our best player this season. Not close. IMHO.

[BWFC_Insane]

The reality is we were no better or worse today than we were at Scunthorpe, but we kept a clean sheet and a got a set-piece to land on the head of one of our centre halves. That has been the story of our season, and why we are where we are, not Gary Madine.

Madine played through the pain and scored, so fair all credit to him for that. But please can we not seriously talk ourselves into believing he's that crucial to this team, and should be starting next season as our centre forward.

The difference is we had a striker who prevented defenders from winning easy headers and allowed us to build more pressure.

People are just going to have to accept it. The stats don't lie. We have won any of the ten games he's missed. We've scored two goals in them.

There is a reason for that. He does a huge job for the team. It isn't even an opinion anymore. The facts have been laid out for everyone to see,

Without him it is abundantly clear where we'd be this season.

There is a big difference between saying he's the best player we have and the most crucial. The statistics show he is the most crucial. The rest can be debated.

But he clearly played through an enormous amount of pain today. If he does again next week and we win, he should go down in the history books as a hero. I cannot say I liked him at all. Still don't particularly, but the man has been critical to us like no other this season.

[WTW]

Obviously delighted with today's result. I agree with the mad one that Madine is a crucial player this season - frustrating as he is, hot and cold as he is, clumsy and ineffectual as he can be... But effective, yes, importantly so. But this season has been built on an outstanding centre back partnership that means we have conceded the fewest goals in the division. I can't split Wheater and Beevers - but both are stronger contenders than Madine for POTY for me...

[Athertonian]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3391187/a ... b-attacks/
Could be one of the reasons Parky left him out?

[BWFC_Insane]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3391187/a ... b-attacks/
Could be one of the reasons Parky left him out?

Cos he has a new girlfriend?

[TKIZ!]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3391187/a ... b-attacks/
Could be one of the reasons Parky left him out?

Doubt it.

[Prufrock]

PS Prufrock was that you with the early pitch invasion falling over whilst trying to evade stewards? You did say your shoe grips were bad!

Nah, not shooting my bolt that early, and then it way too scary for me. Tony and I had a fun moment coming out of the ground when about 20 young scallies came out round a corner looking for Bolton fans to fight just in front of us. We made it through unscathed but was a bit hairy.

Cracking atmosphere and great win. Gutted about Fleetwood. As Insano says, when Wheater scored we thought we were up. By the time Nadine scored we knew we weren't. Never seen a goal celebrated like Wheaters.

Thought Nadine was decent but his standards yesterday, battled gave us a focal point, scored. Factor in the clear pain and fair play to him.

Let's be frank: yes he is vitally important to us. But let's not pretend that that is because he is particularly good, rather than because he is the only striker we have with a physical presence who is good enough to play professional football. Any remotely competent "target" type would be just as important.

We're all Port Vale fans for the rest of the season.

Feck knows what their striker was doing to get sent off.

Would kill for an early goal next week. Don't see how we're ever going to score first from open play again, mind.

[TonyDomingos]

What he said plus Burslem is a sh*thole.

[Bruce Rioja]

But he clearly played through an enormous amount of pain today.

Did he now? This "enormous amount of pain" being evidenced........... ?

I agree that he clearly is pivotal to our play, not because he's any good but simply because Parkinson's one and only style is to lump it up top, and without Madine we're short of a big lump. QED in the Oldham and Bury games (possibly Scunny too but I wasn't at that one).

[BWFC_Insane]

But he clearly played through an enormous amount of pain today.

Did he now? This "enormous amount of pain" being evidenced........... ?

I agree that he clearly is pivotal to our play, not because he's any good but simply because Parkinson's one and only style is to lump it up top, and without Madine we're short of a big lump. QED in the Oldham and Bury games (possibly Scunny too but I wasn't at that one).

Don't agree with that at all. We didn't just lump it yesterday. But we had an outlet up front and that makes a huge difference. Even though he was probably at 60% at best.

He was in very clear pain. Couldn't lift his arm at all.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Odd feeling coming away from the ground. This was a huge leap toward promotion but it had been within our grasp on the day until Fleetwood's credit-to-them, from-behind-twice victory. Had the Cods won 1-0 it wouldn't have felt so bittersweet, just glad to win; oh well. Credit also to Gillingham, whom we panned twice; I can't decide if this division's tight differentials make the lower teams good or the top teams bad.

That said, Vale looked half-hearted for a team fighting relegation. Once their bonehead striker got his second yellow – for a useless hand-flap at a passing free-kick, a minute after he'd been strongly tackled but more importantly eight minutes after he'd seen yellow for going through the back of Madine – they had precious little attacking intent and even less nous. Eagles fluttered to deceive, but otherwise they had nowt.

Not that we looked Championship-level in the first half. The ballyhooed return of Madine (instant reaction from the fans I was walking past when it was announced: "Oh no, not him") didn't produce a single effort on target before the oranges, and only a couple of wafters over (Madine) and wide (Vela). With Vale's left-siders cutting off the angles to feed Morais, and a curious lack of desire to go long to Madine, we had little penetration.

After the break, though, things got a lot better. Perhaps Vale tired, but if they did it was due to our judicious use of the ball as we stretched the play; evidently the players had complained to Parky that Vale were cutting off the angles to Morais and he simply said "dink it over their heads then", because suddenly we were finding the Postman – and to a slightly lesser degree Taylor down the left - in acres every couple of minutes, having patiently passed the ball about until a gap appeared. With the replacement on the hour of the promising Karacan with the savvy Henry, attempts duly followed - ALF on target, Beevers and Madine not - before the breakthrough.

Justice indeed that it was the oaf Bikey who gave away the vital free-kick, having battered Madine all day, targeting the shoulder he knew was a problem. The goal had been coming and it couldn't have been more fitting that the Postman delivered onto Wheater's head, and as Pru said the celebrations were pure joy from players and fans.

At which point, Vale got involved. It started with a couple of not-rights vaulting the fence and passing the pitiful stewarding in front of the Railway Stand to our right. Giving it the standard arms-wide come-for-a-cuddle displayed by those who truly miss their mother's teat, they were duly enjoined by our own knobheads. Of course, Vale's fans had much less to lose than ours from an abandonment, and the subsequent delay – the longest aggro-caused match break I've experienced in 30-odd years – only focused the fans' concentration on each other; so did the sudden materialisation of dozens of dayglo riot police (quickly enough to suggest they had previously been getting paid to sip tea in the back of the many Mariahs outside).

It's a pity that the day spilled into that sort of knobheadery but hardly surprising. The two teams had a lot riding on it, and I haven't seen such a pissed-up Superwhite Army outside Wembley; boozy bonhomie can soon turn to alcoholic aggro. It suddenly felt a very long way back to the car, past a worrying number of pubs, and so it proved, with growling knuckle-draggers standing outside every hostile hostelry offering quick mutual physical gratification while Murphy's Mobs tore round street corners evading the rozzers and confronting their rivals. Oh, the 80s, how glad I am you've gone.

Enough of that shit. After the restart we were cannier than a can doing the can-can. Vale sat back, so we passed it sideways along the back; Vale came forward, so we passed it round, through and over them. If spoiled by events elsewhere, we were given a well-deserved breather by Madine's goal in injury time – long after I'd have subbed him to protect that shoulder, so painful and so heavily strapped that at one point in the first half he didn't bend his right elbow for fully 15 minutes.

A word on Madine. Obviously the players and (most) fans were glad to have him back, and he has to be applauded for what looked at times excruciating. (One can only imagine the rage of the other club he's definitely signed for next season, you can tell, and a bloke in the pub said so.) Maybe Parky's public plea will come to be seen as marvellous mind games. That said, he didn't exactly play like Pele on steroids. With Vale targeting him, he more often than not withdrew to 10 yards behind ALF, which seemed more like a tactical ploy than dereliction of duty; even so, it reduced his contribution, although he's never quite been the battering ram to which some have oversimplified him. Much credit to him for playing, and for his goal (well taken if, to my eyes, saveable); I hope he's fit for next Sunday. He seems to help, and he can help us get promoted; what we do next is a topic for another day.

[Worthy4England]

With Vale's left-siders cutting off the angles to feed Morais, and a curious lack of desire to go long to Madine, we had little penetration.

It took them 5 games to work out he was missing.
So it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that they haven't noticed he's back yet.
Or maybe Parky just told him he was on for "show" to settle some nerves

Great writery as ever DSB.

[Bruce Rioja]

But he clearly played through an enormous amount of pain today.

Did he now? This "enormous amount of pain" being evidenced........... ?

I agree that he clearly is pivotal to our play, not because he's any good but simply because Parkinson's one and only style is to lump it up top, and without Madine we're short of a big lump. QED in the Oldham and Bury games (possibly Scunny too but I wasn't at that one).

Don't agree with that at all. We didn't just lump it yesterday. But we had an outlet up front and that makes a huge difference. Even though he was probably at 60% at best.

He was in very clear pain. Couldn't lift his arm at all.

Play football with his arm, does he?

I wasn't there yesterday, but I attended both the Oldham and Bury games wherein, on both occasions, we pathetically lumped it up to Le Fondre, despite missing the big lump. If you think otherwise - you're wrong. That's going to take some accepting on your part.

[BWFC_Insane]

But he clearly played through an enormous amount of pain today.

Did he now? This "enormous amount of pain" being evidenced........... ?

I agree that he clearly is pivotal to our play, not because he's any good but simply because Parkinson's one and only style is to lump it up top, and without Madine we're short of a big lump. QED in the Oldham and Bury games (possibly Scunny too but I wasn't at that one).

Don't agree with that at all. We didn't just lump it yesterday. But we had an outlet up front and that makes a huge difference. Even though he was probably at 60% at best.

He was in very clear pain. Couldn't lift his arm at all.

Play football with his arm, does he?

I wasn't there yesterday, but I attended both the Oldham and Bury games wherein, on both occasions, we pathetically lumped it up to Le Fondre, despite missing the big lump. If you think otherwise - you're wrong. That's going to take some accepting on your part.

He got battered by rather agricultural centre halves yesterday.

The folk like you who simply won't ever accept what Madine has done this season will keep trying the reductive arguments. Yes, we didn't play well against Bury or Oldham. I'd say a large part of that was not having Madine. The man is a talisman in a number of ways. Yesterday we only really went long when under pressure and Madine's presence helped. He also helped us pressurise their defence more.

It also improved Le Fondre's game considerably.

He's very important. And as we've seen with Proctor, any average league one lump it centre forward isn't able to do the same job.

I've always said Madine was limited. He is. But he has the right attributes to do this job very very well. The statistics show it, clear as crystal.

[Bruce Rioja]

The folk like you who simply won't ever accept what Madine has done this season will keep trying the reductive arguments.

Do you ever actually take the trouble to read that that others bother to post on here? Or, as is evidenced, is it that you simply can't wait to read your own version of events and congratulate yourself in an incredibly onanistic style ? I have stated quite clearly, within my past couple of posts, and within many before them pointed out as to exactly how important Madine is to us given the only style in which Parkinson knows how to play. It's all here in these pages. Have a read of other people's posts some time, I dare you.

[BWFC_Insane]

The folk like you who simply won't ever accept what Madine has done this season will keep trying the reductive arguments.

Do you ever actually take the trouble to read that that others bother to post on here? Or, as is evidenced, is it that you simply can't wait to read your own version of events and congratulate yourself in an incredibly onanistic style ? I have stated quite clearly, within my past couple of post and in many before them as to exactly how important Madine is to us given the only style in which Parkinson knows how to play. It's all here in these pages. Have a read of other people's posts some time, I dare you.

The style thing is just another slight. However you play you need someone up front to play off sometimes.None of our other strikers have shown any ability to do that.