Carabao Cup thread: Sheff Wednesday at home

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by Armchair Wanderer » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:23 am

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:11 pm
Yep it's f*cking ridiculous. No problem with limiting squad places to stop financially unsound clubs spaffing money away. Clearly should exclude U21s/players who spent say 3 years at a club between 15-21.

It disincentivises the sort of thing that would make us more sound!
Well put. It's almost like the EFL (or whoever makes the embargo) doesn't want kids to be playing in place of actual seasoned pros. Like it's a union thing or a sponsorship thing.
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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:58 am

Iles has tweeted that under embargo rules we now aren't even allowed to loan out our first year pros like King for experience - unless we want them to count against our quota.

Someone needs to legally challenge this. As I'm sure the rules are unlawful.

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:17 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:58 am
Iles has tweeted that under embargo rules we now aren't even allowed to loan out our first year pros like King for experience - unless we want them to count against our quota.

Someone needs to legally challenge this. As I'm sure the rules are unlawful.
Aye – that would surely come under restraint of trade, for the player if not the club. Did Jimmy Hill die in vain, etc.

Anyway - the team. Parky said we might see "one or two" of the kids tonight:
If we don’t give these lads an opportunity, we’ll never see if they can do it at first team level. We took the lads away in pre-season for this reason, really, to train in the company of the senior lads and to feel comfortable around them. We had a good look to see who deserves their chance and maybe the supporters on Wednesday night will see one or two of the youngsters get their big break.
To reiterate, the third-year scholars are Jack Earing, Harry Brockbank, Ryan White and Cole Lonsdale; the young professionals, who fall under EFL embargo rules, are Jake Turner, Alex Perry, Jeff King and Connor Hall.

Of the four scholars, centre-back Brockbank got the most pre-season action: a half at Chorley (in which he scored two goals), an hour at Arbroath, a half-hour at Dundee and a half at Fylde – in a back three, as opposed to the back four we'd played previously. Left-back Lonsdale played 45 at Chorley, 60 at Arbroath and 30 at Dundee, but dropped out thereafter and is presumably behind Everton loanee Antonee Robinson. Ryan White, who seems to be a right-winger, got 45 at Chorley (and scored), 30 at Arbroath, 30 at Dundee at 15 at Stockport. Jack Earing got an hour at Arbroath, apparently playing at the back of a diamond midfield, then the last 15 at Stockport.

Then again, there's a few senior players who need a game – it might not feel like we have a deep squad, but we've got plenty of contenders. Unlike the Checkatrade Trophy there's no rules against wholesale changes, and TBH I'm thinking we should change the entire XI, to balance promoting competition for places for Saturday's six-pointer at Millwall, resting last Sunday's first XI and "getting minutes in the legs" of the others. That would apply to Mark Little and Antonee Robinson at full-back, Aaron Wilbraham and Adam Armstrong up top, Will Buckley, possibly Darren Pratley in midfield, then there's Morais, Derik and Chris Taylor. Give Reece Burke a chance at centre-back, switch in Ben Alnwick and there's 10 senior pros, with some kids as back-up.

Oh and I'd go 4-2-3-1. Partly because of the balance of players above, partly because we need to be flexible.

Alnwick; Little, Burke, Brockbank, Robinson; Derik, Pratley; Morais, Armstrong, Buckley; Wilbraham.
Subs inc C Taylor, Earing, White, Lonsdale and any seniors who might need a jog late on.

If Pratley's still puking his ring we could play Earing there or give C Taylor a go at the harrying role – he's diligent and hard-working.

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:43 am

It's frustrating, but I guess what it means is using youngsters rather than spending money we don't have. If we think they're good enough to give a contract to then lets give them a chance. I'd rather that than spending money on useless squad fillers.

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:58 am

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:43 am
It's frustrating, but I guess what it means is using youngsters rather than spending money we don't have. If we think they're good enough to give a contract to then lets give them a chance. I'd rather that than spending money on useless squad fillers.
I see your point but the third sentence isn't an A/B option from the other two: Just because we buy more players won't mean they're useless squad fillers (and I know you weren't implying a "thus" there).

Seems to me this is another example of a reasonably well-meaning Football League rule actually having unforeseen negative implications on innocent parties.

RULE: Checkatrade Trophy XIs have to be 50% "regulars"
INTENTION: Stop those "wholesale changes which disrespect the competition and short-change the fans"
EFFECT: Strangle promotion of talented youngsters

RULE: Checkatrade Trophy invites elite clubs' Development Squads
INTENTION: Give the stars of tomorrow realistic competition against hardened players
EFFECT: Because actual elite clubs drop out, you're left with Blackburn U23s, so it now seems like you're acting as nursemaids for someone else's babies, most of whom are foreign anyway, so let's boycott it, and how comes we can't play our kids?

RULE: Clubs in embargo can't keep buying players. Restrict them to 23 professionals
INTENTION: Stop provable financial basket-cases wasting money they evidently don't have (and let's be punitive so they don't "do a Leicester", which everyone complained about). Make them use the players they've committed to rather than carrying passengers. Skint, aren't they?
EFFECT: Players who are too old for the academy system but too young for regular football – having probably missed out on first-team chances due to the Checkatrade "50%" rule (see above) – find themselves ostracised from first-team football at the club. And, because you've extended the rule to loans out, first team football anywhere professional – see Sam Lavelle.

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by Prufrock » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:34 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:58 am
Iles has tweeted that under embargo rules we now aren't even allowed to loan out our first year pros like King for experience - unless we want them to count against our quota.

Someone needs to legally challenge this. As I'm sure the rules are unlawful.
What the juddering f*ck is meant to be the reason for that?!
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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:39 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:34 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:58 am
Iles has tweeted that under embargo rules we now aren't even allowed to loan out our first year pros like King for experience - unless we want them to count against our quota.
What the juddering f*ck is meant to be the reason for that?!
I'm guessing "They exist, so use them, you povs". Didn't quite think it through, in that the way to circumvent the rules is not to loan them out either. Knobheads.

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:55 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:43 am
It's frustrating, but I guess what it means is using youngsters rather than spending money we don't have. If we think they're good enough to give a contract to then lets give them a chance. I'd rather that than spending money on useless squad fillers.
It is doing the exact opposite thought. As Iles points out none of the First year pros are as yet regarded as good enough for regular first team football. So there are two routes for them...1) loan out 2) hover around the squad and get chances in games like tonight, perhaps the odd go from the bench.

Both those routes are denied under the rules because as soon as you loan them out or give them a go they count in your 23 man squad. As we already have a 23 man squad then......

It is a total nonsense that is having the complete opposite effect. Lets imagine they didn't count. One could easily see someone like King getting some game time with us, Hall getting experience on loan and Turner getting either depending on circumstance. As it is, all 3 will not be able to feature for anyone's first team till we're out of embargo. It is a joke and a disgrace, and completely counter-intuitive to what the embargo is meant to achieve.

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:40 pm

Being the man who manages us and seeing the players in every facet of training daily, we have to believe in whatever choice or decision Parky makes. He went to see Millwall in action then travelled back to get the team ready for tonights game. I'm happy to believe he'll do the business long term. I'm not really bothered how we do in the Carmen Miranda Cup, the flag wavers and tea ladies can turn out for me, as long as our league games don't suffer via any more injuries. Turn the kids loose and tell em to go for it.
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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:41 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:55 pm
It is a total nonsense that is having the complete opposite effect. Lets imagine they didn't count. One could easily see someone like King getting some game time with us, Hall getting experience on loan and Turner getting either depending on circumstance. As it is, all 3 will not be able to feature for anyone's first team till we're out of embargo. It is a joke and a disgrace, and completely counter-intuitive to what the embargo is meant to achieve.
Yep. Same for the other one, Alex Perry, who is usually a defensive midfielder but also switched this pre-season to being in a back three and got positive reviews. A game like tonight would be perfect.

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by TonyDomingos » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:52 pm

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:26 pm

10 changes.

Could be 4231:
Alnwick; Darby, Derik, Burke, Robinson; Pratley, Earing; Little, Armstrong, Buckley; Wilbraham
(or Little at RB, Darby CB and Derik in midfield)

or 352:
Alnwick; Darby, Burke, Derik; Little, Earing, Pratley, Buckley, Robinson; Wilf, Arma

Heavy mob on the bench in case of disaster, but I'm sure he'd rather bring on Morais and Brockbank.

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:32 pm

BP and I flying the TW flag here tonight. Any other forumers here? £10 entrance, fish, chips and gravy for a fiver and a belting view. So far so good. ...
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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by Burnden Paddock » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:40 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:32 pm
BP and I flying the TW flag here tonight. Any other forumers here? £10 entrance, fish, chips and gravy for a fiver and a belting view. So far so good. ...
We're shite. Haven't scored yet. We're going down!!

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:00 pm

Iles seemed to think before the match it'd be 3-5-2 with Darby at centre-back.

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:03 pm

Sounds right DSB. I think Darby thought he was playing centre half Sunday an all....
hope Little has a good game. Sounds like a proper wing back.

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:06 pm

Any time now we'll click into gear and get the faithful roaring.....Crewe used to be a train-spotters paradise didn't it? We go and..Pratley tries for the world record in wide slices....apparently. :wink:
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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:08 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:03 pm
Sounds right DSB. I think Darby thought he was playing centre half Sunday an all....
hope Little has a good game. Sounds like a proper wing back.
Yeah, Darby in or as cover for the back3 makes a lot more sense than him playing as a wing back. Hopefully the fact that he is playing tonight, means we won't see him as wing back on Saturday.

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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:13 pm

Almost had three passes then before Willbraham fouls a Crewman. "Ryan Winkle", there's a name for you. Still sounding a fair bit of wallop going on but Pratlery sounding awake. Crewe seem to believe they can actually win...cheek.
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Re: Carabao Cup First Round - Crewe away

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:18 pm

Had seven passes there before they got it back. Another near miss ..by about thirty yards. Actually a few of the new names sound to be trying. Corner us now and.....and...the keeper fumbled it but got it second go. Still not sorted out us/them yet but Derik and Pratley give me a clue...almost. Buckley takes a corner again and....they get a goal kick.
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