A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by Tombwfc » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:06 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:12 pm
Tombwfc wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:22 pm
Even while watching, it felt like that first 20 minutes was a big one, both for the season and the Parky era. We actually played some nice stuff and *gasp* created at least two chances.

But we didn't score, and after that it was more of what we've been seeing all season. Much will be made that all three of Brentford's strikes were goal of the month contenders, but they had enough easier chances to have been well out of sight. Also, there isn't a player who started for us today who I'd back to find the top corner from 25 yards if you gave them 100 attempts.

Attacking wise, we look literally years, or even decades, behind even the worst teams in the division. Brentford might come down with us, but they've got three or four players who buzz around with a bit of pace and ask questions of the opposition. We've got Madine, and if that doesn't work we've got Wilbraham, and that doesn't work we throw Wheater up there as well.

I don't want to sack Parky, but nobody can have infinite job security if their team loses to nil every week. If we're not at least four points better off after the Barnsley game, we're staring down the barrel of a historically bad season, and he'll have to go.
Agree about the quality, but not sure anyone can remotely blame Parky for that. The fact that our midfield is the weakest in this division by a mile is more worrying. We don't even make it difficult for teams to play through us.
If you can't blame him for anything, what exactly is he being paid for? If it's all just one big lost cause, having a manager is just a waste of resources.

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by twilight » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:47 pm

Please can somebody tell me why:-
1. We played 5 defenders against their lone striker
2. played Morais who was our best winger last season in midfield, then later put him on the left
3. plays Armstrong before he plays Le Fondre
4. Plays Cullen at all
Because I'm totally baffled

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:05 pm

twilight wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:47 pm
Please can somebody tell me why:-
1. We played 5 defenders against their lone striker
2. played Morais who was our best winger last season in midfield, then later put him on the left
3. plays Armstrong before he plays Le Fondre
4. Plays Cullen at all
Because I'm totally baffled
Answer to question 3 is because Le Fondre offers nowt at all. Armstrong at least has some pace.

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:27 pm

Agree with that BWFCI
Why the feck sign him then?
And why sign Noone? And Buckley?
Was gutted when Ameobi wasnt in the squad, I thought there was a bit of gamesmanship and he might play a part. We are literally pinning our hopes on Sammi and Vela, and the only hope I now have is that it isn't embarrassing!

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:19 pm

Sadly the game went exactly how I expected. The forlorn hope that they would miss all of the inevitable glut of chances they were always going to create, and we would score from a set piece, proved to be just that, forlorn. We are terrible. Very depressing.

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:31 pm

^^
So have we actually learned anything at all from West Ham and today? If not it's looking very depressing indeed. If we have, then we should be able to turn things around a bit. If we don';t do that, then we haven't learned a thing, and that's pathetic.
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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:33 pm

I think my favourite parky-ism at the moment is morais as a centre midfield. He's literally shoehorned into the side like an american football quarterback for the chance we might get a free kick.

Clutching at straws.

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:46 pm

Even the half time entertainment went badly!
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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:05 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:31 pm
^^
So have we actually learned anything at all from West Ham and today? If not it's looking very depressing indeed. If we have, then we should be able to turn things around a bit. If we don';t do that, then we haven't learned a thing, and that's pathetic.
We have two first choice goalkeepers who aren't good enough. That said Alnwick was a candidate for Motm today.

Wheater and Beevers are slow at this level and it is getting exposed. Any attacker with pace destroys them, and most teams in this league, unlike L1, have pacy attackers.

The biggest issue is that we have no central midfield. Cullen is a massive disappointment. He is a standard L1 midfielder at best. Tidy, decent passer, but he cannot do the defensive side of the game. And he offers no assists nor goals. He isn't good enough at the moment for this level. Karacan is also a disappointment. He runs around a lot but doesn't achieve anything. I am sure one of these could operate with some success if we had a good defensive midfielder and Vela in there, but these two together with an out of position of Morais is a disaster at this level. This is the biggest reason we are being outclassed.

As a result of the above the service into the forwards is poor. Madine is playing well. But he isn't a good finisher, and he is getting very few chances anyway. Armstrong was poor today. ALF needs service, and just won't get it in this team.

The biggest issue, and this has surprised me more than anything else, is just how strong this league is. The level is way closer to the Premiership than L1. Most teams have genuine quality. Brentford's reserve centre half scored a wonderful free kick from 30 yards today. Today we had no Spearing, Vela, Taylor, Ameobi, Clough from this time last season. We are substantially weaker than the team that was grinding to 1-0 wins in L1. That translates to 0-3 defeats at this level. I am struggling to see any kind of solution. Maybe sign an out of contract midfielder, and strengthen again in January. But that is really serious straw clutching.

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:58 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:31 pm
^^
So have we actually learned anything at all from West Ham and today? If not it's looking very depressing indeed. If we have, then we should be able to turn things around a bit. If we don';t do that, then we haven't learned a thing, and that's pathetic.
What do you think we need to learn? Wheater and Beevers need to be able to run faster...our midfield need to grow 4 inches each and develop an engine. Madine needs to turn into Pele....

We aren't losing games because we need to learn. We're losing them because other teams have better players.

We aren't physically capable as it stands. Not sure where learning comes into it.

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:05 am

Listened to the second half commentary. It comes to something when even Gary Henshaw's calling our midfield shite. :shock:
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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by OrtonCakeBingoBongo » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:50 am

I saw the result from this game when looking at other championship action today on the BBC website and from an impartial perspective you've got a lot of trouble up there. Our victory last weekend was nothing fancy, in fact we didn't have much to do to take victory but would have expected an improvement or something learned from before.

The BBC page says Brentford created twice as many chances throughout the game and had the greater possession ? Now I wasn't there today but the findings seem pretty conclusive and seeing a team in last position of the league, with 2 points from 9 games and a very adverse goal difference. There's nothing I can do, I'm not the manager, I'm not involved in a club coaching capacity or go to your games to voice opinion.

Point being, and sincerely, would not wish to see the team fall back into League One and continue as they are. It's sad to see one of the founder members of the league and someone with something of an illustrious history, in such difficulties. Is it an owner problem ? A lack of confidence or adequate cover was not signed in the most recent transfer windows ?

The manager will invariably be responsible for results, if not performance. I don't know enough about Mr Parkinson to really offer opinion, but having been involved last week, and seeing the club where they are and the points you have obtained, there needs to be action taken quickly if you are to remedy a deteriorating situation. Not out for any awards, just sad to see a club of this nature where they are and the distance away from a potential return to the premier league and more enterprising times.

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:06 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:05 am
Listened to the second half commentary. It comes to something when even Gary Henshaw's calling our midfield shite. :shock:
He's not wrong either!

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:03 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:58 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:31 pm
^^
So have we actually learned anything at all from West Ham and today? If not it's looking very depressing indeed. If we have, then we should be able to turn things around a bit. If we don';t do that, then we haven't learned a thing, and that's pathetic.
What do you think we need to learn? Wheater and Beevers need to be able to run faster...our midfield need to grow 4 inches each and develop an engine. Madine needs to turn into Pele....

We aren't losing games because we need to learn. We're losing them because other teams have better players.

We aren't physically capable as it stands. Not sure where learning comes into it.
I'd say there's a few things we need to learn. We know Beevers and Wheater are struggling at this level in a back 3. Should we defend deeper to deny space behind, or a higher line with a well drilled offside trap, or switch to a flat back 4?

We don't need our midfielders to be taller. They need to be working more as a cohesive unit than 3 lads all running around in, mostly, the wrong direction. Sack off the wing backs and play 4-5-1 with a packed midfield?

You said yourself last year that Vaughan, who was banging them in for Bury, wouldn'tfit into our style of play. I'd argue Anelka in his prime wouldn't be doing much with how we're currently set up.

No arguments that we have a weak squad compared to everyone else but we can't learn anything, can't set up better to be harder to beat? I'm not having that
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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:27 am

Parky could do a lot worse than play Earing and possibly King in our next two games at Bristol City and Aston Villa. As things stand we are nailed on to lose both games convincingly. We have nothing to lose by trying our promising youngsters. Earing especially has already, by all accounts, had a decent game at Crewe, and plays in that deeper midfield role. He can do no worse defensively than Cullen.

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:59 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:58 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:31 pm
^^
So have we actually learned anything at all from West Ham and today? If not it's looking very depressing indeed. If we have, then we should be able to turn things around a bit. If we don';t do that, then we haven't learned a thing, and that's pathetic.
What do you think we need to learn? Wheater and Beevers need to be able to run faster...our midfield need to grow 4 inches each and develop an engine. Madine needs to turn into Pele....

We aren't losing games because we need to learn. We're losing them because other teams have better players.We aren't physically capable as it stands. Not sure where learning comes into it.
Splendid. How about that we have a glaringly obvious problem having lost most of our games and being bottom of the league? Does that mean we know it all? Not exactly assets in football excellence is it? We just conceeded six goals in two games ( the two I mentioned in the question) and scored none. West Ham are Premier League, fair enough, but we're still bottom of our own league. I'd say we have a few things to learn or we shouldn't be here in the first place. If we have nothing to learn, why bother?
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:14 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:59 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:58 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:31 pm
^^
So have we actually learned anything at all from West Ham and today? If not it's looking very depressing indeed. If we have, then we should be able to turn things around a bit. If we don';t do that, then we haven't learned a thing, and that's pathetic.
What do you think we need to learn? Wheater and Beevers need to be able to run faster...our midfield need to grow 4 inches each and develop an engine. Madine needs to turn into Pele....

We aren't losing games because we need to learn. We're losing them because other teams have better players.We aren't physically capable as it stands. Not sure where learning comes into it.
Splendid. How about that we have a glaringly obvious problem having lost most of our games and being bottom of the league? Does that mean we know it all? Not exactly assets in football excellence is it? We just conceeded six goals in two games ( the two I mentioned in the question) and scored none. West Ham are Premier League, fair enough, but we're still bottom of our own league. I'd say we have a few things to learn or we shouldn't be here in the first place. If we have nothing to learn, why bother?
TD if it was possible just to learn the things we need to make us win games, no team should ever be bottom should they?

My point was that I don't think we're close to results but making the odd stupid error. We look miles off. Quality wise. Everything wise. Not sure we can learn our way out of it. To be honest.

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by Athertonian » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:33 pm

Worst I have seen in a while. Couldn't string two passes together and Madine, for all his hard work doesn't look like scoring.
Some say couldn't do much about their goals, bit, if we did have someone in the middle then those goals would not have happened.

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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:44 pm

A big shout out to their lone striker yesterday, Maupay? His work and movement dragged our defence all over the place, leaving gaps for the midfielders to exploit. Proof if it were needed that you don't have to be a big lump to be a 'target man'
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Re: A taste of honey, or a sting in the beehind? Bolton v Brentford 23/9/2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:34 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:44 pm
A big shout out to their lone striker yesterday, Maupay? His work and movement dragged our defence all over the place, leaving gaps for the midfielders to exploit. Proof if it were needed that you don't have to be a big lump to be a 'target man'
He was very good. Cost £1.6M. Which is more money than we've been able to invest in our last 5 years of squads.

Just putting things into perspective.

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