Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:58 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:27 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:24 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:14 pm
As it was, although we frequently dropped into effectively a 6-3-1, we ended up with three strikers on the pitch in Gaz, Arma and Alf - and all three of them had chances to finish the game. That they didn’t isn’t Parky’s fault.
Totally agree with that and,as I said above, the whole equilibrium would have altered had we managed just one of our chances. It all hinged on that, although I've never quite agreed with the Sam Allardyce mandate of ten bodies behind the ball to defend. How many defenders does it actually take when, by filling the box we effectively present the opposition with a game of pot shots v defence by just keep knocking it back to them? If we left two wide men and Madine hovering around the halfway line they'd be far less inclined to send the golden hordes (sometimes even including the keepers) into our half. They (the opposition ) wouldn't have so many around the box any way when a chance of a speedy winger breaking into an empty half might be an option. That said, scoring more than one goal early (first half) would entirely change the advantages in our favour. We need to put our chances away ( Rousing chorus of "No shit Sherlock" ensues)

Ah, well, on with it. ae:)
Teams one down at home will throw everyone forwards. You have to track those runners which is why you end up with 9 or ten behind the ball. Our issue is we lack a little pace up front and in midfield to hit on the break at times.
Then clearly we failed to cope at the back, not looking to break up top?! Pratley was a 4ucking disaster, once again, as their fella didn't even have to cut inside him, he actually beat him the long way around on the outside. I'm truly struggling to remember any worse players we've ever had than Darren Pratley. He is utterly useless.
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:02 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:58 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:27 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:24 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:14 pm
As it was, although we frequently dropped into effectively a 6-3-1, we ended up with three strikers on the pitch in Gaz, Arma and Alf - and all three of them had chances to finish the game. That they didn’t isn’t Parky’s fault.
Totally agree with that and,as I said above, the whole equilibrium would have altered had we managed just one of our chances. It all hinged on that, although I've never quite agreed with the Sam Allardyce mandate of ten bodies behind the ball to defend. How many defenders does it actually take when, by filling the box we effectively present the opposition with a game of pot shots v defence by just keep knocking it back to them? If we left two wide men and Madine hovering around the halfway line they'd be far less inclined to send the golden hordes (sometimes even including the keepers) into our half. They (the opposition ) wouldn't have so many around the box any way when a chance of a speedy winger breaking into an empty half might be an option. That said, scoring more than one goal early (first half) would entirely change the advantages in our favour. We need to put our chances away ( Rousing chorus of "No shit Sherlock" ensues)

Ah, well, on with it. ae:)
Teams one down at home will throw everyone forwards. You have to track those runners which is why you end up with 9 or ten behind the ball. Our issue is we lack a little pace up front and in midfield to hit on the break at times.
Then clearly we failed to cope at the back, not looking to break up top?! Pratley was a 4ucking disaster, once again, as their fella didn't even have to cut inside him, he actually beat him the long way around on the outside. I'm truly struggling to remember any worse players we've ever had than Darren Pratley. He is utterly useless.
We cracked after a load of pressure. It happens. If we had a few more outlets we'd be able to reduce the amount of pressure.

I think Pratley was excellent the two games previously and looks much better with Henry alongside him. He is running himself into the ground for the cause. He is a limited player absolutely. For the goal you also have to ask why their man is free to nod it in at the back post.

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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Prufrock » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:39 am

He's wank. Sometimes he's less wank than others and this somehow turns into him being excellent. His first touch is worse than mine.

God I hope he goes on the summer. We'll have had seven years of that shit.
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:56 am

First game I’ve seen in a while and the best game I’ve seen Pratley have since we were in the top flight. Yes, that's a tallest-dwarf competition; and yes, he was part of a winning team last season, but against poorer players earning a fifth of his wages. I’ve also seen him walk off Craven Cottage humiliated, but that wasn’t the case on Saturday. As noted, he is a limited player but he seems to be revelling in his limited role: snap snarl and harry at the base of a 4-2-3-1. True, this fixture was almost engineered for his skill-set – away, to a higher team who love possession and were chasing the game – but it suited him, and by his standards he did very well in it.

Many have said that partnering with Henry has brought the best out of him; I can see that, but I’d also say that on Saturday he was the more mature of the two. Having throttled someone within 65 seconds of the off, Henry worked hard to get his yellow – it came in the 11th minute and could have come on at least three earlier occasions – and immediately thereafter set about winning another. I get that we need someone to rattle into tackles, and Henry certainly enjoyed that, but given his Disciplinary Tightrope it seemed astonishing that he was constantly arguing with the referee, baiting the Fulham players, kicking the ball away and such. Compared to that daftness, Pratley was a model of restrained resistance.

A word too for Tony Robinson. Andy Taylor is a better defender, but that doesn’t mean the kid is a calamity. Thrown on within two minutes of the restart, into a battling rearguard action, he proved his mettle and did well. We may not have chosen Taylor’s injury but the young’un looks ready and we now have two swift overlapping full-backs, either side of a much more solid and experienced central four (Wheavers and Henry/Pratley). That will hopefully help us transition up the pitch better – with Antoneeeeee and Armstrong, we have a lot of pace on the left, and if Robinson learns to slip the ball behind the defence for Arma, we might have a new trick up our sleeve.

Also think Alnwick looked less rickety than he has (which is not to say he’s looked more rickety than Howard). In fact, I could detect the beginnings of something like confidence in that spine of the team.

One other thing: nice of Tim Ream to wait and applaud the away end, but much nicer to watch him get rolled easily by Ameobi for the goal.

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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:58 am

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:39 am
He's wank. Sometimes he's less wank than others and this somehow turns into him being excellent. His first touch is worse than mine.

God I hope he goes on the summer. We'll have had seven years of that shit.
See, I think he does a certain job well. His issue has been he's been asked to do what he isn't capable of here too often. Now he's in a physical combative midfield pairing he looks ok to me. Certainly we've bigger issues.

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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:32 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:02 am
For the goal you also have to ask why their man is free to nod it in at the back post.
It was Pratley's fault that the ball ever reached him.

What was that stat? 0.8 tackles per game? Absolutely shocking.
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:03 pm

According to WhoScored, Pratley's tackling average is 2 won per game, which is 38th out of 78 in the division (sliced by: central midfielder or defensive midfielder, 4+ games). His average attempted tackles per game of 3.3 is 32nd in the same sample set.

As a comparison to his team-mates, per game, Karl Henry wins 1.4 of his attempted 2.8 tackles per game; Karacan 2.1 of his 2.9; Vela 2 of his 2.8; Cullen 1.2 of his 2.4.

Out of (wider) interest, our most prodigious successful tackler is Mark “he can’t defend, you know” Little, with 3.8 successful tackles per game out of an attempted 4.3; Beevers is next on 2.2 of 2.9, then Wheater 2.2 of 2.8, Robinson 2 of 4.3; Ameobi, interestingly, averages 1.4 tackles won of 1.6 attempts per game, so he very rarely gets beaten in the tackle.

More team stats here, should anyone care to delve.

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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by boltonboris » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:26 pm

It's (sort of) good that our centre backs don't tackle much. It's worrying that our midfielders don't tackle much.
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Armchair Wanderer » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:11 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:56 am
First game I’ve seen in a while and the best game I’ve seen Pratley have since we were in the top flight. Yes, that's a tallest-dwarf competition; and yes, he was part of a winning team last season, but against poorer players earning a fifth of his wages. I’ve also seen him walk off Craven Cottage humiliated, but that wasn’t the case on Saturday. As noted, he is a limited player but he seems to be revelling in his limited role: snap snarl and harry at the base of a 4-2-3-1. True, this fixture was almost engineered for his skill-set – away, to a higher team who love possession and were chasing the game – but it suited him, and by his standards he did very well in it.
Did Harry meet Sally on her way to the opposition's half? :D

Aren't fans supposed to like players who run about a lot and tackle? Why not Pratley? Especially as it sounds like he's captain too. Although that just seems like an excuse to play an older player when he's too old or out of form half the time.
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:20 am

Heh - he does harry more than sally these days...

Why not Pratley? Probably because he’s been a constant through half a decade of underachievement. And for much of that he has been, as our dear friend Prufrock will note, f*ckin bobbins. Or not what we were sold. Maybe we’re not angry, we’re just disappointed.

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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Prufrock » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:23 am

They're not mutually exclusive. I remember a video going round of him scoring into an empty net from the halfway line for Swansea. Christ.

7 bastard years. There'll be N'Gog levels of celebrations in the Pru household when he finally f*cks off.
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:02 am

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:23 am
They're not mutually exclusive. I remember a video going round of him scoring into an empty net from the halfway line for Swansea. Christ.

7 bastard years. There'll be N'Gog levels of celebrations in the Pru household when he finally f*cks off.
Bigger, I would have thought. Whenever I think of the Pru/Pratz relationship, I'm always reminded of the Elvis Costello lyric "But if you do have to leave me / Who will I have left to hate?" :D

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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Nicko58 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:43 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:32 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:02 am
For the goal you also have to ask why their man is free to nod it in at the back post.
It was Pratley's fault that the ball ever reached him.

What was that stat? 0.8 tackles per game? Absolutely shocking.

About the same as Maldini tbf.
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:13 pm

Nicko58 wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:43 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:32 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:02 am
For the goal you also have to ask why their man is free to nod it in at the back post.
It was Pratley's fault that the ball ever reached him.

What was that stat? 0.8 tackles per game? Absolutely shocking.

About the same as Maldini tbf.
Maldini the left back?
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Nicko58 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:34 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:13 pm
Nicko58 wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:43 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:32 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:02 am
For the goal you also have to ask why their man is free to nod it in at the back post.
It was Pratley's fault that the ball ever reached him.

What was that stat? 0.8 tackles per game? Absolutely shocking.

About the same as Maldini tbf.
Maldini the left back?

I wasn't being serious.
'Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.'

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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:46 pm

Nicko58 wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:34 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:13 pm
Nicko58 wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:43 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:32 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:02 am
For the goal you also have to ask why their man is free to nod it in at the back post.
It was Pratley's fault that the ball ever reached him.

What was that stat? 0.8 tackles per game? Absolutely shocking.

About the same as Maldini tbf.
Maldini the left back?

I wasn't being serious.
One never knows on here, mate. :D Was fortunate enough to see Maldini play against us at Wembley in a qualifier. He played in a huge L shape, sweeping across the back line and overlapping their left winger. He was never out of position once. An absolute treat and a performance I'll never forget. You can even see Zola's winner past Ian Walker right here :)
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Nicko58 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:15 pm

:D

He once famously said "If I have to make a tackle then I've already made a mistake". Awesome.
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:26 pm

Nicko58 wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:15 pm
:D

He once famously said "If I have to make a tackle then I've already made a mistake". Awesome.
Brilliant :D
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Prufrock » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:46 pm

That usually works for Darren too tbf.
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Re: Buoyant Bolton or Wallowing Wanderers? Fulham v Bolton 28/10/2017

Post by Armchair Wanderer » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:48 am

Prufrock wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:46 pm
That usually works for Darren too tbf.
:D
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:20 am
Why not Pratley? Probably because he’s been a constant through half a decade of underachievement. And for much of that he has been, as our dear friend Prufrock will note, f*ckin bobbins. Or not what we were sold. Maybe we’re not angry, we’re just disappointed.
FWIW, I remember seeing a pre-season video when we used to go abroad for a bit. I've never seen him off the pitch but in the video he didn't come across as particularly likeable. Karl Henry, on the other hand, never liked him for other teams but he seemed fantastically likeable in the interview I've just watched.
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