It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:17 am

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:24 pm
Happy with a point the way the game went. We improved a bit second half, but we were terrible in the final third. Preston were poor, they will be down there with us based on that. There was only one player missing from the attacking part of their team who can come back soon..
We looked like damage limitation was the game plan right from the off. First half we were out-muscled, out-paced and out played. The ball spent so much time in the air it thought it was a balloon, and we won few headers or fifty-fifty balls. I'm being but honest in my view (which is all it is) , but survival is all we can expect this year, and even that will be a battle. Teams seem to know they can pressure us into our own half and a good defence is only half a game. A couple of shots apart we didn't offer much threat. Our throw-ins need some attention and we should take lessons from Germany and Brazil who take throws in seconds and never wallop dead ball free kicks hopefully into the box. Free kicks keep possession, and all too often we treat them like a way to give the ball back rather than be a threat. The long rest seems to have made the players jaded rather than revitalised. A big improvement is needed in a few areas. If our goalie and defence have good games that should indicate all isn't well. If it were, they'd be having it easy and not getting much mention. A point's a point, as has been said by a few, but you don't lose points, only win em. Truth is, take Sammi out of the side and we'd really struggle right now. Teams know this, that's why he has three men around him every time he goes walkies.
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:30 am

Missed the game so on the face of it I'm quite happy with an away point and a clean sheet which I'd have taken before.

If the forums biggest optimist - take a bow TD - says we were poor, we really must have been bad. Glad to have missed it!
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:55 am

Dullsville USA
What’s up with Le Fondre? Giving him 20 mins last night might have been worth a shot?

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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:26 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:55 am
Dullsville USA
What’s up with Le Fondre? Giving him 20 mins last night might have been worth a shot?
Must be injured, wasn't on the bench.
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by TANGODANCER » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:37 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:30 am
Missed the game so on the face of it I'm quite happy with an away point and a clean sheet which I'd have taken before.
If the forums biggest optimist - take a bow TD - says we were poor, we really must have been bad. Glad to have missed it!
The dog left the room because of my constant howling "Get it on the deck and play football". The amount of time the ball spent in the air was incredible and there were more outstretched legs on view than all the local Karate classes and the Bolshoi Ballet put together. It was pretty obvious after fifteen minutes that wallop-ball wasn't going to work. We actualy looked outclassed most of the first half, sort of like a team in the bottom three of the league...oh, er hang on....
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by Armchair Wanderer » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:58 pm

Was there a massive difference between the PNE game and the games before the international break? Winning against Norwich, for example.
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:55 pm

It's depressing. It's sad. I fear the worst, I really do... I see no relief either short, mid or long term.
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:34 pm

Some positives:

1.) That is our worst display for some time, possibly going back to the Brentford game, but we still kept a clean sheet and got a draw away from home, against a team who, albeit terrible on the night, have upper mid table expectations.

2.) I wouldn't have believed we would be in this position six games ago. Six games unbeaten is impressive for anyone, and we still have that statistic there to give us confidence. Tuesday is a big game now. Win that and this will look like an even better point.

3.) No apparent injuries. Beevers is suspended for Tuesday, but that is one area where we have cover at least as good as the guys currently playing. More game time for Buckley who could be an important player going forward.

4.) Reading lost today, have little time to recover before a long trip, and we have almost a full extra day of rest on them.

Ok that is the best I have :)

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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by Prufrock » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:30 pm

It was dreadful but six unbeaten and in touch. Given we looked like going down without about 6 points 6 weeks ago it's ok.
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:40 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:55 pm
It's depressing. It's sad. I fear the worst, I really do... I see no relief either short, mid or long term.
No it's not. We are fighting. Given where we've been to be in touch at this stage is great.

Thee is nothing sad or depressing about this. It's realistically what this season was going to be, a battle.

We put in a poor display yesterday. So did Preston. We got a point.

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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by irie Cee Bee » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:46 am

Not a good game at all. We were organised and kept a clean sheet which is a plus. We are never going to pass the ball around like almost all the other teams in this Division as we do not have that passing quality in the midfield. The teams that play us dominate possession. however, with Ameobi, we have a threat. Need him to stay fit. Need a couple better players in January to secure safety.

Wheater was my MoM. Strong performance. Want to see Buckley start on Tuesday, and Armstrong getting a run in the CF position for the last 30 mins of that game. He seems like he will be very dangerous in and around the box.

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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:16 am

In retrospect, I guess we have to see this as not disastrous (not much choice really as it's happened) another game not lost and another point gained, sort of glass half full with a fancy paper umbrella on top. The defence battled throughout and the same old weak areas prevent us playing the midfield, the area that any opposition manager worth his salt knows is where Achilles lives. We need to be more dominant up front and play the way the oppposition do. We need a Campo, Nolan or Speed to run things with Henry and take the pressure off Vela and let him come forth. The loneliness of the long distance balloon catcher has been ever present in our game even when Kev Davies was Billy no mates in the role; all too often his knocking down ariel stuff to find nobody else at the party. In short, we need to put the shxts up the opposition and stop being as easy to read as The Beano. Easy to talk, isn't it? :wink:
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:36 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:40 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:55 pm
It's depressing. It's sad. I fear the worst, I really do... I see no relief either short, mid or long term.
No it's not. We are fighting. Given where we've been to be in touch at this stage is great.

Thee is nothing sad or depressing about this. It's realistically what this season was going to be, a battle.

We put in a poor display yesterday. So did Preston. We got a point.
PNE were appalling. They were terrible. And all we did was get a point out of it. The dullest, most boring 0-0 I've seen in ages. And you manage to suck some comfort out of that. BWFC- Insane is a perfect moniker for you.
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by bw@bw » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:33 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:30 pm
It was dreadful but six unbeaten and in touch. Given we looked like going down without about 6 points 6 weeks ago it's ok.
Seconded.
It was an awful match - two poor teams.

But at least we got something out of it
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:10 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:36 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:40 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:55 pm
It's depressing. It's sad. I fear the worst, I really do... I see no relief either short, mid or long term.
No it's not. We are fighting. Given where we've been to be in touch at this stage is great.

Thee is nothing sad or depressing about this. It's realistically what this season was going to be, a battle.

We put in a poor display yesterday. So did Preston. We got a point.
PNE were appalling. They were terrible. And all we did was get a point out of it. The dullest, most boring 0-0 I've seen in ages. And you manage to suck some comfort out of that. BWFC- Insane is a perfect moniker for you.
We had 2 points from our first 11 matches. Now we've gone 6 unbeaten and put in one of our worst performances and come away with a point. I don't see how that is the most depressing thing ever. Considering.

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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:49 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:10 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:36 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:40 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:55 pm
It's depressing. It's sad. I fear the worst, I really do... I see no relief either short, mid or long term.
No it's not. We are fighting. Given where we've been to be in touch at this stage is great.

Thee is nothing sad or depressing about this. It's realistically what this season was going to be, a battle.

We put in a poor display yesterday. So did Preston. We got a point.
PNE were appalling. They were terrible. And all we did was get a point out of it. The dullest, most boring 0-0 I've seen in ages. And you manage to suck some comfort out of that. BWFC- Insane is a perfect moniker for you.
We had 2 points from our first 11 matches. Now we've gone 6 unbeaten and put in one of our worst performances and come away with a point. I don't see how that is the most depressing thing ever. Considering.
I didn't say the "most depressing thing ever". You over exaggerate. I said it was depressing. We have twelve points from seventeen games in a league stuffed full of shit, under-performing teams. The football on display from two full-time professional teams was terrible. The fact we put in one of our worst performances against a team that put in an appalling performance is not a good thing as you seem to think, despite the fact we got a point - we should have stolen three from a team as bad as PNE were. Before that we beat Norwich, the only light in an otherwise gloomy season, we should have capitalised on the feel good factor that should have brought. The match before that we managed to be the only team losing to Sunderland at their own ground in all of this year - the only team to be that bad since Christmas last year! The fact we got just a point against Sunderland was as equally depressing as the point we got against Preston. And we still are only just a point above fecking Sunderland...
We don't have the luxury of looking forward to things getting better as we are probably, in all honesty, still on a knife-edge of financial woe (which we are all collectively keen to forget about as though it's not really true). The transfer window is not likely to transform us, and we forget at our peril that the other 23 teams in this division are also looking to use the window to improve.
Those are the reasons why I posted what I did. You can have a different view, as indeed you do, but that's because you are an optimist, you always see a glass half full. The fact I see us having a glass half empty isn't capable of being argued out of just because you say "No it's not [sad or depressing]... there is nothing sad or depressing about it" - well, excuse me, but i think there is.
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:25 pm

I am giggling at the thought of BWFCI being described as an optimist here :) As you were

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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:45 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:25 pm
I am giggling at the thought of BWFCI being described as an optimist here :) As you were
Yeh. I did think twice about putting that. But he is, deep down. Sometimes very deep down. :wink:
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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:12 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:49 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:10 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:36 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:40 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:55 pm
It's depressing. It's sad. I fear the worst, I really do... I see no relief either short, mid or long term.
No it's not. We are fighting. Given where we've been to be in touch at this stage is great.

Thee is nothing sad or depressing about this. It's realistically what this season was going to be, a battle.

We put in a poor display yesterday. So did Preston. We got a point.
PNE were appalling. They were terrible. And all we did was get a point out of it. The dullest, most boring 0-0 I've seen in ages. And you manage to suck some comfort out of that. BWFC- Insane is a perfect moniker for you.
We had 2 points from our first 11 matches. Now we've gone 6 unbeaten and put in one of our worst performances and come away with a point. I don't see how that is the most depressing thing ever. Considering.
I didn't say the "most depressing thing ever". You over exaggerate. I said it was depressing. We have twelve points from seventeen games in a league stuffed full of shit, under-performing teams. The football on display from two full-time professional teams was terrible. The fact we put in one of our worst performances against a team that put in an appalling performance is not a good thing as you seem to think, despite the fact we got a point - we should have stolen three from a team as bad as PNE were. Before that we beat Norwich, the only light in an otherwise gloomy season, we should have capitalised on the feel good factor that should have brought. The match before that we managed to be the only team losing to Sunderland at their own ground in all of this year - the only team to be that bad since Christmas last year! The fact we got just a point against Sunderland was as equally depressing as the point we got against Preston. And we still are only just a point above fecking Sunderland...
We don't have the luxury of looking forward to things getting better as we are probably, in all honesty, still on a knife-edge of financial woe (which we are all collectively keen to forget about as though it's not really true). The transfer window is not likely to transform us, and we forget at our peril that the other 23 teams in this division are also looking to use the window to improve.
Those are the reasons why I posted what I did. You can have a different view, as indeed you do, but that's because you are an optimist, you always see a glass half full. The fact I see us having a glass half empty isn't capable of being argued out of just because you say "No it's not [sad or depressing]... there is nothing sad or depressing about it" - well, excuse me, but i think there is.
I think its about expectations here. We're in a league where financially we're the minnows. We had a horrific start, worse than imaginable to most but since getting Ameobi and Vela back and Henry in we've turned it around. I think the idea that we're going to win loads of games in this league with what we've got is unrealistic. I'm not convinced this is a league of "shit" teams. I think its a strong league with lots of money being spent.

We're 3 points from 4th bottom which in our circumstances would be a remarkable achievement. 3 points is a lot closer than I thought we'd be. I still think we'll go down which will be a pisser. And I agree that financially we're a mess still. However this feels a hell of a lot better than the last time we were in this league. So to me, that is at least something.

I honestly don't think this is glass half full or empty. Its about what you think constitutes "decent performance". For me being in touch in January would be a minor miracle. Given our summer, start and general situation round the club.

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Re: It seems the PNE's finally dropped: Preston v Bolton 17/11/2017

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:47 pm

Two different arguments here: one, whether we have a cat in hell's chance of staying up; two, whether a draw at PNE was a good result or not.

My own negative answer to question two impacts on question one. Defensive slips cost us six points against QPR, Fulham and Sunderland; conversely, a lack of attack cost us two at Preston. Whatever Parky says in public - he's whistling a brave tune about going to Wolves on Saturday with "the same attitude" - there are clearly some games which are much more winnable, especially if we are to take the line that we are so financially hamstrung compared to others.

For me, as I said beforehand, the games against QPR, Fulham, Sunderland and Preston were ones we should be aiming to win. I'm glad we drew them rather than lost, but even in a kindish run of games we've got seven points from those last five games. That's 1.4ppg, which is better than a kick in the cock and much better than Aug/Sep's 0.18ppg, but that shit start left us with a big gap to close and not long to close it before the rich kids' reinforcements arrive in January.

As escape plans go, I'm not in favour of Lose To Good Teams, Draw With Shit Ones. If we are so far behind the competition – in points and squad quality - we *have* to maximise returns from the winnable games. Who knows, we might somehow scab a draw at Wolves - but I'd still say two points from that and Preston is a point less than we should be getting.

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