Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:52 pm

bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:23 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:52 am
I'll be completely honest, I'd only heard of three of their starting XI, one of them used to play for us, the other two are nearer 40 years old than 30 (but one of them scored, the other kept a clean sheet). The others were largely collated from lower-league teams. Only one of the XI cost a fee, and that was three years ago; this is a club that, when they broke their transfer record last summer (for someone who was benched on Saturday), were breaking a previous record of £20,000.

Stephen Bywater, 36, GK, free (Kerala Blasters)
John Brayford, 29, RB, free (Sheffield United)
Ben Turner, 29, CB, free (Cardiff)
Jake Buxton, 32, CB, free (Wigan)
Tom Flanagan, 25, LB, free (MK Dons)
Luke Murphy, 28, CM, loan (Leeds)
Tom Naylor, 26, CM, free (Derby)
Lucas Akins, 28, RW (Stevenage) - small fee three years ago
Will Miller, 21, AM, free (Spurs)
Lloyd Dyer, 35, LW, free (Burnley)
Marvin Sordell, 26, FW, swap (Coventry)

Now, I understand the idea that we can't go toe-to-toe with Wolves or whoever. I even understand people being scared of underachievers like Sunderland and Birmingham waking up. And this is not a rant against Burton, to whom I wish all the best except when it affects my team. But really, if we can't beat Burton, who can we beat? And conversely, if they can beat us with the above collection of never-will-bes, doesn't that reflect awfully on our players and manager?
Not sure about this DSB. They bought Jackson Irvine last year for £350,000, sold him for £2m to Hull the summer just gone, bought Liam Boyce this summer for £500,000, who unluckily for them got a serious injury at the start of the season, and bought Jamie Allen from Rochdale for a rumoured £800,000. They have spent more on fees than we have.
Interesting, I didn't know that. However, if I may unpick your figures, by selling Irvine and funding other purchases, they've made a transfer profit, have they not? And none of the players you mention were in the XI that beat us. Clough got a tune out of Lloyd f***ing Dyer.
bristol_Wanderer3 wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:23 pm
I don't think we can look it as if we can't beat Burton we can't beat anyone. Burton know they are a small club struggling against much bigger teams in this league and make themselves very difficult to break down away from home. This result was very likely if we didn't get the first goal. Way better teams than us have failed to score against them at home this season and more will too. They defend really well, but they would've really struggled to score if Alnwick hadn't made his error. We will have much easier games against teams with more quality, IF, we cut out the ridiculous individual defensive mistakes.
Hmm. They'd previously only kept four clean sheets, against Norwich (now 16th), QPR (17th), Bristol City (3rd) and Millwall (18th), so - your local lot aside – it's hardly like they're regularly thwarting "way better teams". Unless we accept that teams in 16th/17th/18th are "way better", in which case, who exactly can we beat? Maybe the team who arrived bottom of the league, with one win in 13 games, in which they'd scored 7 and conceded 25? Again: if we can't beat all these way better teams, and Sunderland are about to storm the league, and Burton are really quite a tidy little side, who the juddering buggery are we going to get points against? Who do you expect us to beat? How the hell do we get to anywhere near 30 points from the next 24 games when we've only gathered 16 from the first 22?

I know it's not your fault, Brizzle, so don't take this as personal tirade against you. But I'm utterly f***ing sick of being told that there's no teams in this division we should be beating. It was bad enough being told to doff our caps in the top flight, now we're being told that we can't expect to beat Burton at home. I've seen us have shit seasons before, in worse divisions than this, but that doesn't excuse the fact that this is threatening to turn into a joyless grind. No wonder people are giving up.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:19 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:52 pm


I know it's not your fault, Brizzle, so don't take this as personal tirade against you. But I'm utterly f***ing sick of being told that there's no teams in this division we should be beating. It was bad enough being told to doff our caps in the top flight, now we're being told that we can't expect to beat Burton at home. I've seen us have shit seasons before, in worse divisions than this, but that doesn't excuse the fact that this is threatening to turn into a joyless grind. No wonder people are giving up.
It is a joyless grind. That's where we are. We are a very poor side. Is that surprising when we've scrambled a team together under an embargo over the summer with even greater restrictions place upon us?

We're more skint than Burton. They re-invested their transfer receipts we pocketed Clough's and used it to pay bills.

I'm not sure why people are surprised as to where we are. Some of these players last time took us down rock bottom of this league, in effect down by January.

It isn't surprising that with essentially the same, or arguably worse squad we're struggling similarly. What's helping this time is that there are other similarly poor teams and we've done just enough to not be totally adrift.

But you only had to look at a Sunderland who were bound to win a few...it'll still be a miserable season for them but they won't go down now they've got that home win to see that even teams around us, have more quality and unless they totally failed to click we were always going to be in trouble.

We've thrown away too many points but again it comes down to, not being quite good enough. In a way I hope Ken does sack Parky, because either I'm wrong and we climb the table, or I'm right and nowt changes or we get even worse - and at least then the debate re the manager is put to bed. Because I've been fairly certain for a long while now that we're going down. Which does hurt to think about, but rationally is hardly a surprise. Wigan who spent more than us had a similar fate coming back up. My bigger worry right now is what happens when we do go down. Ken must be getting bored and when he doesn't have the "I'm turning round the mess I was left" card to play and actually is trying to clean up his own mess it may be a whole lot less appetising. You can hear his frustration in his weekly comments. He clearly thought we'd have bigger crowds, attract real investment and get him off the hook. None of that has happened. Part of me thinks that Bolton deserve what we're getting considering we're down to about 12,000 fans. Plenty turn up for glory, but the hardcore base looks incredibly small.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:23 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:52 pm
Hmm. They'd previously only kept four clean sheets, against Norwich (now 16th), QPR (17th), Bristol City (3rd) and Millwall (18th), so - your local lot aside – it's hardly like they're regularly thwarting "way better teams". Unless we accept that teams in 16th/17th/18th are "way better", in which case, who exactly can we beat? Maybe the team who arrived bottom of the league, with one win in 13 games, in which they'd scored 7 and conceded 25? Again: if we can't beat all these way better teams, and Sunderland are about to storm the league, and Burton are really quite a tidy little side, who the juddering buggery are we going to get points against? Who do you expect us to beat? How the hell do we get to anywhere near 30 points from the next 24 games when we've only gathered 16 from the first 22?

I know it's not your fault, Brizzle, so don't take this as personal tirade against you. But I'm utterly f***ing sick of being told that there's no teams in this division we should be beating. It was bad enough being told to doff our caps in the top flight, now we're being told that we can't expect to beat Burton at home. I've seen us have shit seasons before, in worse divisions than this, but that doesn't excuse the fact that this is threatening to turn into a joyless grind. No wonder people are giving up.
No offence taken DSB, this is a frustrating season, at times nobody is more frustrated than me, particularly as I have contracted the fever again, and am doing silly miles and making sacrifices to watch this stuff. However I can see improvement, and genuinely don't think we are that bad a side. Before Henry came we were as bad a side as there has ever been, I genuinely believe we wouldn't have got 10 points, that is when I found it the most frustrating. It isn't that we shouldn't expect to beat Burton, we should, but also we have to acknowledge that they are good at frustrating better teams than them away from home, and there will be easier home games for us against better teams. Burton's away record is W2 D4 L5. Not bad for a side with 17 points from 22 games. And one of those losses was a narrow 1-0 to Derby in their last away game before ours, where they only lost to a mistake late in the game. They know what they are doing away, we should take a leaf out of their book in that respect.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:21 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:19 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:52 pm


I know it's not your fault, Brizzle, so don't take this as personal tirade against you. But I'm utterly f***ing sick of being told that there's no teams in this division we should be beating. It was bad enough being told to doff our caps in the top flight, now we're being told that we can't expect to beat Burton at home. I've seen us have shit seasons before, in worse divisions than this, but that doesn't excuse the fact that this is threatening to turn into a joyless grind. No wonder people are giving up.
It is a joyless grind. That's where we are. We are a very poor side. Is that surprising when we've scrambled a team together under an embargo over the summer with even greater restrictions place upon us?

We're more skint than Burton. They re-invested their transfer receipts we pocketed Clough's and used it to pay bills.

I'm not sure why people are surprised as to where we are. Some of these players last time took us down rock bottom of this league, in effect down by January.

It isn't surprising that with essentially the same, or arguably worse squad we're struggling similarly. What's helping this time is that there are other similarly poor teams and we've done just enough to not be totally adrift.

But you only had to look at a Sunderland who were bound to win a few...it'll still be a miserable season for them but they won't go down now they've got that home win to see that even teams around us, have more quality and unless they totally failed to click we were always going to be in trouble.

We've thrown away too many points but again it comes down to, not being quite good enough. In a way I hope Ken does sack Parky, because either I'm wrong and we climb the table, or I'm right and nowt changes or we get even worse - and at least then the debate re the manager is put to bed. Because I've been fairly certain for a long while now that we're going down. Which does hurt to think about, but rationally is hardly a surprise. Wigan who spent more than us had a similar fate coming back up. My bigger worry right now is what happens when we do go down. Ken must be getting bored and when he doesn't have the "I'm turning round the mess I was left" card to play and actually is trying to clean up his own mess it may be a whole lot less appetising. You can hear his frustration in his weekly comments. He clearly thought we'd have bigger crowds, attract real investment and get him off the hook. None of that has happened. Part of me thinks that Bolton deserve what we're getting considering we're down to about 12,000 fans. Plenty turn up for glory, but the hardcore base looks incredibly small.
We're not that poor a team that we couldn't put together a decent run in the mid part of the first half of the season. That's after an abysmal start with the players' heads going down on a regular basis, and before every fxckin team on the planet sussed that we have one style of play and one only - even my gran gets that and she's been dead for a few years now.
I wish you'd stop banging on about how inevitable all this is, like it's some kind of karma where teams have this cycle they have to go through: They Don't.
It was perfectly feasible that we should have stuffed bloody Burton with the squad we have. The fact we telegraph both our tactics and our strategy months in advance is down to one factor only.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:41 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:21 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:19 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:52 pm


I know it's not your fault, Brizzle, so don't take this as personal tirade against you. But I'm utterly f***ing sick of being told that there's no teams in this division we should be beating. It was bad enough being told to doff our caps in the top flight, now we're being told that we can't expect to beat Burton at home. I've seen us have shit seasons before, in worse divisions than this, but that doesn't excuse the fact that this is threatening to turn into a joyless grind. No wonder people are giving up.
It is a joyless grind. That's where we are. We are a very poor side. Is that surprising when we've scrambled a team together under an embargo over the summer with even greater restrictions place upon us?

We're more skint than Burton. They re-invested their transfer receipts we pocketed Clough's and used it to pay bills.

I'm not sure why people are surprised as to where we are. Some of these players last time took us down rock bottom of this league, in effect down by January.

It isn't surprising that with essentially the same, or arguably worse squad we're struggling similarly. What's helping this time is that there are other similarly poor teams and we've done just enough to not be totally adrift.

But you only had to look at a Sunderland who were bound to win a few...it'll still be a miserable season for them but they won't go down now they've got that home win to see that even teams around us, have more quality and unless they totally failed to click we were always going to be in trouble.

We've thrown away too many points but again it comes down to, not being quite good enough. In a way I hope Ken does sack Parky, because either I'm wrong and we climb the table, or I'm right and nowt changes or we get even worse - and at least then the debate re the manager is put to bed. Because I've been fairly certain for a long while now that we're going down. Which does hurt to think about, but rationally is hardly a surprise. Wigan who spent more than us had a similar fate coming back up. My bigger worry right now is what happens when we do go down. Ken must be getting bored and when he doesn't have the "I'm turning round the mess I was left" card to play and actually is trying to clean up his own mess it may be a whole lot less appetising. You can hear his frustration in his weekly comments. He clearly thought we'd have bigger crowds, attract real investment and get him off the hook. None of that has happened. Part of me thinks that Bolton deserve what we're getting considering we're down to about 12,000 fans. Plenty turn up for glory, but the hardcore base looks incredibly small.
We're not that poor a team that we couldn't put together a decent run in the mid part of the first half of the season. That's after an abysmal start with the players' heads going down on a regular basis, and before every fxckin team on the planet sussed that we have one style of play and one only - even my gran gets that and she's been dead for a few years now.
I wish you'd stop banging on about how inevitable all this is, like it's some kind of karma where teams have this cycle they have to go through: They Don't.
It was perfectly feasible that we should have stuffed bloody Burton with the squad we have. The fact we telegraph both our tactics and our strategy months in advance is down to one factor only.
The squad we have? It's hilarious how often this is brought up. Burton went up the year we finished rock bottom. And stayed up last season when we finished 2nd the league below us. What evidence is there that we have a better squad than them?

It's just throwing the toys out of the pram stuff. No team has faced the restrictions we have. Once again we haven't been able to afford to pay the HMRC and they've taken us to court. We are skint. Burton have invested in their side more than we have.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:20 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:41 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:21 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:19 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:52 pm


I know it's not your fault, Brizzle, so don't take this as personal tirade against you. But I'm utterly f***ing sick of being told that there's no teams in this division we should be beating. It was bad enough being told to doff our caps in the top flight, now we're being told that we can't expect to beat Burton at home. I've seen us have shit seasons before, in worse divisions than this, but that doesn't excuse the fact that this is threatening to turn into a joyless grind. No wonder people are giving up.
It is a joyless grind. That's where we are. We are a very poor side. Is that surprising when we've scrambled a team together under an embargo over the summer with even greater restrictions place upon us?

We're more skint than Burton. They re-invested their transfer receipts we pocketed Clough's and used it to pay bills.

I'm not sure why people are surprised as to where we are. Some of these players last time took us down rock bottom of this league, in effect down by January.

It isn't surprising that with essentially the same, or arguably worse squad we're struggling similarly. What's helping this time is that there are other similarly poor teams and we've done just enough to not be totally adrift.

But you only had to look at a Sunderland who were bound to win a few...it'll still be a miserable season for them but they won't go down now they've got that home win to see that even teams around us, have more quality and unless they totally failed to click we were always going to be in trouble.

We've thrown away too many points but again it comes down to, not being quite good enough. In a way I hope Ken does sack Parky, because either I'm wrong and we climb the table, or I'm right and nowt changes or we get even worse - and at least then the debate re the manager is put to bed. Because I've been fairly certain for a long while now that we're going down. Which does hurt to think about, but rationally is hardly a surprise. Wigan who spent more than us had a similar fate coming back up. My bigger worry right now is what happens when we do go down. Ken must be getting bored and when he doesn't have the "I'm turning round the mess I was left" card to play and actually is trying to clean up his own mess it may be a whole lot less appetising. You can hear his frustration in his weekly comments. He clearly thought we'd have bigger crowds, attract real investment and get him off the hook. None of that has happened. Part of me thinks that Bolton deserve what we're getting considering we're down to about 12,000 fans. Plenty turn up for glory, but the hardcore base looks incredibly small.
We're not that poor a team that we couldn't put together a decent run in the mid part of the first half of the season. That's after an abysmal start with the players' heads going down on a regular basis, and before every fxckin team on the planet sussed that we have one style of play and one only - even my gran gets that and she's been dead for a few years now.
I wish you'd stop banging on about how inevitable all this is, like it's some kind of karma where teams have this cycle they have to go through: They Don't.
It was perfectly feasible that we should have stuffed bloody Burton with the squad we have. The fact we telegraph both our tactics and our strategy months in advance is down to one factor only.
The squad we have? It's hilarious how often this is brought up. Burton went up the year we finished rock bottom. And stayed up last season when we finished 2nd the league below us. What evidence is there that we have a better squad than them?

It's just throwing the toys out of the pram stuff. No team has faced the restrictions we have. Once again we haven't been able to afford to pay the HMRC and they've taken us to court. We are skint. Burton have invested in their side more than we have.
If you'd bothered to read the posts above in combination with the transfer thread you'd notice that Burton have invested fxck all - they've made money out of their transfers.
Parkinson refuses to use a squad - he has a team, and reluctantly puts players into it when circumstances force his hand.
And even then has only one plan, Plan A; and when that breaks down he resorts to plan A again.
I know it's not his fault we've got no fxckin' money, but it is his that the squad we've got - which is infinitely superior to Burton's - can do fxck all.
I'll tell you this for free, if in the world of fantasy football we had thousands of choices to make but only one swap between Burton and Bolton, the one I'd make without hesitation every single fxckin time is Parkinson for Clough. Every single time.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:56 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:20 pm


If you'd bothered to read the posts above in combination with the transfer thread you'd notice that Burton have invested fxck all - they've made money out of their transfers.
Parkinson refuses to use a squad - he has a team, and reluctantly puts players into it when circumstances force his hand.
And even then has only one plan, Plan A; and when that breaks down he resorts to plan A again.
I know it's not his fault we've got no fxckin' money, but it is his that the squad we've got - which is infinitely superior to Burton's - can do fxck all.
I'll tell you this for free, if in the world of fantasy football we had thousands of choices to make but only one swap between Burton and Bolton, the one I'd make without hesitation every single fxckin time is Parkinson for Clough. Every single time.
If you'd bother to read the posts above you'd see that Burton sold a player yet that money was reinvested into the team. We sold a player and it paid the tax bill.

Can you see the difference?

You also offer zero evidence as to why our squad is "infinitely superior" to Burton's. The available evidence suggests there probably isn't a lot in it. Their squad certainly have shown they can stay up, whereas our last attempt, under a different manager was sunk without trace.

You'd like to swap Parky for Clough. Swap a manager who got us out of league one under embargo, for a man sacked from Sheffield United because he couldn't get them out of league one. Sounds like muddled and confused thinking to me.

I get that football fans throw their toys out of the pram when teams don't do well. I've seen it often enough. But everyone who has watched us who isn't a "fan" says the same thing. We graft, we're organised, but ultimately we lack quality. That's what I see week in week out. We're probably ok as a first 11. But once players are missing, or off form we look very very light. I guarantee you that we'd be worse with Clough as manager. His situation at Burton is totally and utterly different. Their fans know they're punching above their weight and 10/11 men behind the ball is tolerated. Our fans throw their toys out of the pram if we're not play 94 strikers week in week out.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:13 pm

Christ on a bike. I've read some patronising stuff in my time but I think you've outdone yourself there Insane one
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:23 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:13 pm
Christ on a bike. I've read some patronising stuff in my time but I think you've outdone yourself there Insane one
The first part was a direct retort.

The rest is not meant to be patronising but its hard not to be when someone repeatedly claims our squad is "vastly superior" to another team's with seemingly absolutely no evidence to back that up. Our squad is always "better" than a smaller team's even when it isn't and when actually we've invested less in it than said team.

I think a lot of Bolton fans cannot get their head around the fact that we've been under huge financial restrictions. We have no money. We're barely (if at all) able to pay the bills and our attendances aren't exactly stellar. We're a small fish as is in this pond. We're down with Burton and Barnsley and the like, because right now, if you measure size in terms of resources and ability to attract players that is exactly what we are.

There is no evidence or rationale to suggest otherwise.

It is frustrating and upsetting and all those things. But its also part of football. We competed with and finished above bigger clubs in the past who all will have said "Bolton are above us, how depressing". But that isn't an indefinite thing. We're now suffering the other side. We may well finish above Burton, we may not. I strongly suspect both squads are relatively equal ability wise and cost wise. Which is what you'd broadly expect.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:44 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:23 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:13 pm
Christ on a bike. I've read some patronising stuff in my time but I think you've outdone yourself there Insane one
The first part was a direct retort.

The rest is not meant to be patronising but its hard not to be when someone repeatedly claims our squad is "vastly superior" to another team's with seemingly absolutely no evidence to back that up. Our squad is always "better" than a smaller team's even when it isn't and when actually we've invested less in it than said team.

I think a lot of Bolton fans cannot get their head around the fact that we've been under huge financial restrictions. We have no money. We're barely (if at all) able to pay the bills and our attendances aren't exactly stellar. We're a small fish as is in this pond. We're down with Burton and Barnsley and the like, because right now, if you measure size in terms of resources and ability to attract players that is exactly what we are.

There is no evidence or rationale to suggest otherwise.

It is frustrating and upsetting and all those things. But its also part of football. We competed with and finished above bigger clubs in the past who all will have said "Bolton are above us, how depressing". But that isn't an indefinite thing. We're now suffering the other side. We may well finish above Burton, we may not. I strongly suspect both squads are relatively equal ability wise and cost wise. Which is what you'd broadly expect.
Well thank fxck for that then!
According to you we are shit, our players are crap and punching above their weight, we have no money, and there's nothing we can do to stop the decline, but never mind, it's all part of the great wheel of life, it's inevitable we'll get relegated but we are now a small team and deserve to be in a lower league so don't sweat it, our manager is crafted out of pure gold and suffering is good for the liberal soul.
And to top it all you're having a good time laughing at all the tosspots who support Bolton, throwing their toys out of the pram, and because you are so superior you can sit back and enjoy the schadenfreude surrounding our misery.
Bully for you.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Sweet » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:20 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:44 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:23 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:13 pm
Christ on a bike. I've read some patronising stuff in my time but I think you've outdone yourself there Insane one
The first part was a direct retort.

The rest is not meant to be patronising but its hard not to be when someone repeatedly claims our squad is "vastly superior" to another team's with seemingly absolutely no evidence to back that up. Our squad is always "better" than a smaller team's even when it isn't and when actually we've invested less in it than said team.

I think a lot of Bolton fans cannot get their head around the fact that we've been under huge financial restrictions. We have no money. We're barely (if at all) able to pay the bills and our attendances aren't exactly stellar. We're a small fish as is in this pond. We're down with Burton and Barnsley and the like, because right now, if you measure size in terms of resources and ability to attract players that is exactly what we are.

There is no evidence or rationale to suggest otherwise.

It is frustrating and upsetting and all those things. But its also part of football. We competed with and finished above bigger clubs in the past who all will have said "Bolton are above us, how depressing". But that isn't an indefinite thing. We're now suffering the other side. We may well finish above Burton, we may not. I strongly suspect both squads are relatively equal ability wise and cost wise. Which is what you'd broadly expect.
Well thank fxck for that then!
According to you we are shit, our players are crap and punching above their weight, we have no money, and there's nothing we can do to stop the decline, but never mind, it's all part of the great wheel of life, it's inevitable we'll get relegated but we are now a small team and deserve to be in a lower league so don't sweat it, our manager is crafted out of pure gold and suffering is good for the liberal soul.
And to top it all you're having a good time laughing at all the tosspots who support Bolton, throwing their toys out of the pram, and because you are so superior you can sit back and enjoy the schadenfreude surrounding our misery.
Bully for you.
Bolton are a small club. When other clubs play Bolton the opposition fans dont think WOW Bolton, they expect 3 points and move on to the next game. Relegation and 8,000 crowds next season. Sheff Utd spent six seasons in League 1 and still averaged around 19,000 every season, that is a big club.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:46 pm

I see schools in Sheffield have broke up for xmas :roll:
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:29 am

Sweet wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:20 pm
Bolton are a small club. When other clubs play Bolton the opposition fans dont think WOW Bolton, they expect 3 points and move on to the next game. Relegation and 8,000 crowds next season. Sheff Utd spent six seasons in League 1 and still averaged around 19,000 every season, that is a big club.
My Dad is bigger than your Dad :oyea:

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:57 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:44 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:23 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:13 pm
Christ on a bike. I've read some patronising stuff in my time but I think you've outdone yourself there Insane one
The first part was a direct retort.

The rest is not meant to be patronising but its hard not to be when someone repeatedly claims our squad is "vastly superior" to another team's with seemingly absolutely no evidence to back that up. Our squad is always "better" than a smaller team's even when it isn't and when actually we've invested less in it than said team.

I think a lot of Bolton fans cannot get their head around the fact that we've been under huge financial restrictions. We have no money. We're barely (if at all) able to pay the bills and our attendances aren't exactly stellar. We're a small fish as is in this pond. We're down with Burton and Barnsley and the like, because right now, if you measure size in terms of resources and ability to attract players that is exactly what we are.

There is no evidence or rationale to suggest otherwise.

It is frustrating and upsetting and all those things. But its also part of football. We competed with and finished above bigger clubs in the past who all will have said "Bolton are above us, how depressing". But that isn't an indefinite thing. We're now suffering the other side. We may well finish above Burton, we may not. I strongly suspect both squads are relatively equal ability wise and cost wise. Which is what you'd broadly expect.
Well thank fxck for that then!
According to you we are shit, our players are crap and punching above their weight, we have no money, and there's nothing we can do to stop the decline, but never mind, it's all part of the great wheel of life, it's inevitable we'll get relegated but we are now a small team and deserve to be in a lower league so don't sweat it, our manager is crafted out of pure gold and suffering is good for the liberal soul.
And to top it all you're having a good time laughing at all the tosspots who support Bolton, throwing their toys out of the pram, and because you are so superior you can sit back and enjoy the schadenfreude surrounding our misery.
Bully for you.
We stopped the decline last season by going up. Having the season before gone down without trace. The trouble is we are a small club in this league in terms of spending power. And our squad isn't very good. Those are facts, not something to revel in.

We are quick to point out fans of other team's delusions but fail to see our own sometimes. In terms of the manager I'm happy to have someone else IF we can attract someone definitively better. Pulls for example. But I seriously doubt that right now. Someone who failed to get Sheffield United promoted out of league one doesn't inspire confidence that they are anything but a downgrade on what we currently have.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:01 pm

Clough wouldn't leave Burton. He's tried it before, and as you say, expectations are lower.

A much more realistic option, were we to shunt Parky (which, again, I'm not yet convinced is the answer), would be Simon Grayson. That'd be someone with four separate promotions from the third tier (should we be relegated), but also someone who has helped establish (or re-establish) those four clubs in the second tier: Blackpool, Leeds, Huddersfield and Preston. Here's the CV.

06/07 - Blackpool promoted via T3 playoffs
07/08 - Blackpool 19th in T2 (highest in 30 years)
Dec 08 - moves to Leeds (9th in T3)
08/09 - Leeds 4th in T3, lose PO SF
09/10 - Leeds 2nd in T3, promoted automatically
10/11 - Leeds 7th in T2
Feb 12 - sacked by Leeds (10th in T1)
Feb 12 – appointed by Huddersfield (4th in T1)
May 12 – Huddersfield 4th in T3, promoted via playoffs
Jan 13 – sacked by Huddersfield (18th in T2)
Feb 13 - appointed by Preston (17th in T3)
May 13 – Preston finish 14th in T3
13/14 – Preston 5th in T3, lose in PO SF
14/15 – Preston 3rd in T3, promoted via playoffs
15/16 – Preston 11th in T2
16/17 – Preston 11th in T2
Jun 17 – moves to Sunderland
Oct 17 – sacked by Sunderland (23rd in T2)

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Prufrock » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:28 pm

I'd genuinely rather get relegated than have Pulis in charge.
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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:31 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:01 pm
Clough wouldn't leave Burton. He's tried it before, and as you say, expectations are lower.

A much more realistic option, were we to shunt Parky (which, again, I'm not yet convinced is the answer), would be Simon Grayson. That'd be someone with four separate promotions from the third tier (should we be relegated), but also someone who has helped establish (or re-establish) those four clubs in the second tier: Blackpool, Leeds, Huddersfield and Preston. Here's the CV.

06/07 - Blackpool promoted via T3 playoffs
07/08 - Blackpool 19th in T2 (highest in 30 years)
Dec 08 - moves to Leeds (9th in T3)
08/09 - Leeds 4th in T3, lose PO SF
09/10 - Leeds 2nd in T3, promoted automatically
10/11 - Leeds 7th in T2
Feb 12 - sacked by Leeds (10th in T1)
Feb 12 – appointed by Huddersfield (4th in T1)
May 12 – Huddersfield 4th in T3, promoted via playoffs
Jan 13 – sacked by Huddersfield (18th in T2)
Feb 13 - appointed by Preston (17th in T3)
May 13 – Preston finish 14th in T3
13/14 – Preston 5th in T3, lose in PO SF
14/15 – Preston 3rd in T3, promoted via playoffs
15/16 – Preston 11th in T2
16/17 – Preston 11th in T2
Jun 17 – moves to Sunderland
Oct 17 – sacked by Sunderland (23rd in T2)
And the issue with Grayson is he left a Sunderland team with vastly more resources and a better squad than ourselves 2nd bottom.

I think its very questionable whether he's a definitive step up and it also introduces issues with players who perhaps play for Parky where other managers have not got a tune out of them. If that is the case with a new man we don't have the resources to go and find another player.

Manager's won't be queuing up to come here as it stands, not good ones. I think IF there was some investment and a chance to buy a few the job is very attractive. But nobody wants to come to a club and add a relegation onto their CV when they feel they had little power to change the situation.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:31 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:28 pm
I'd genuinely rather get relegated than have Pulis in charge.
That's what Everton fans said a few weeks ago when Big Sam was in talks!

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:27 pm

Win two games and the whole mindset will change from suicidal pessimism to rose coloured optimism overnight (except for Insaney of course, his glasses will be men in black specials. 8) ) We need a win, a win needs goals. Bring in Little, put Wheater and Burke together in central defence let Sammi do the old Campo role and give Madine a rest. Put two of Noone, Armstong and Alf up front and tell Vela he's going nowhere and to buck up. Simple....well, mybe not.... :wink:
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: Bolton v Burton, who'll show their true pedigree and who'll end up bitter? H Sat 16/Dec

Post by Prufrock » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:40 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:31 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:28 pm
I'd genuinely rather get relegated than have Pulis in charge.
That's what Everton fans said a few weeks ago when Big Sam was in talks!
Only idiots who bought the media nonsense about his style of play.

I don't think it's nonsense about Pulis.

I don't demand we're Barcelona 09, I just don't want someone who wilfully sets up for the main threat to be set pieces and calls wingers "spare players".
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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