Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by nelson66 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:55 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:10 pm
nelson66 wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:05 pm
We already are a decent championship team - our results post October 2017 say so
We relied on Madine for those results. What we are now is up in the air.
We are a decent championship TEAM theres a few who can fill our chief goalscorer role given the opportunity who never had the chance to shine while we were playing Madine as a lone striker

I think from goalkeeper to "current" centre forward - we cut the mustard in this league

Onwards and upwards with Parky :pissed:
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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by Armchair Wanderer » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:47 am

There was the stat that BWFC has not won a game without Madine since April 2016... before this game. I have not fact-checked that stat, and it may be just in the league, but... wow!
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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:42 am

While doubtless instructive, was always a carefully-phrased stat. Madine started at Southend but had gone off ages before the winner. And it could be argued that Madine’s almost ever-presence means that it’d be hard to win without him, both systemically and merely through his nearly constantly playing.

Obviously he was important but he’s gone and we’ve proven we can win without him. Now let’s keep doing it. I’d still like a replacement target man but Madine’s now the past. The club goes on, and we go with it, even the ones who said they’d give up... :D

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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by Armchair Wanderer » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:58 am

It feels a little bit like When LSL was manager and PG was saying how much better the football was. I'd love some pretty football! Might actually go to some games then once it gets a bit warmer.

Edit... probably a bad example, I mean like LSL but hopefully winning games... or pre-BSA.
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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:11 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:06 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:10 pm
nelson66 wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:05 pm
We already are a decent championship team - our results post October 2017 say so
We relied on Madine for those results. What we are now is up in the air.
Enough of this shite please.

Last I looked football was a team game. Madine did his bit for us this season no doubt but those results you speak of couldn't have been achieved without the other 10 behind him.
At last, somebody else who can see the team trees beyond the wood that was Madine.
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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:34 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:13 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:06 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:10 pm
nelson66 wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:05 pm
We already are a decent championship team - our results post October 2017 say so
We relied on Madine for those results. What we are now is up in the air.
Enough of this shite please.

Last I looked football was a team game. Madine did his bit for us this season no doubt but those results you speak of couldn't have been achieved without the other 10 behind him.
I don't think anyone is suggesting Madine played on his own. The fact remains that we built our attacking play around him and we'll have to see if we can find another way to reliably get the ball in the back of the net. We've scored 27 goals this season, I think I'm right in saying that Madine scored 10 of those and made 5 more. You can call it "shite" if you like, but we've been relying on Madine and now he's gone it remains to be seen who is going to step up and get us the goals we need to keep the points coming in.
Well, strangely enough, from the moment he's pissed off to Cardiff we appear (it might be an illusion, but I've seen it printed in newspapers and things) to be higher up in the league than we were when we 'relied' on the big lump. Maybe we never needed anybody to step up, maybe it was all a matter of waiting for those occupying entrenched positions to piss off, and the management possibly seeing other ways to play rather than the tediously uninventive shite that we seemed happy to plough on with week in week out, despite the fact for the majority of that time we were in a relegation position. (but, oh no, I'm completely wrong, because if you selectively select a precise slice of history, my god, how did anybody manage to buy the best striker the world has ever seen for less than fifty million! I mean, Christ, If we'd kept him, this time three years from now the Premier League would be at our feet).
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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:38 pm

Honestly, I've no clue why you're going on with yourself but I'm assuming you've some stuff you need to get of your chest - nothing your saying seems related to anything I've said at all. I'm not particularly fussed Madine has gone and if the reported fees are correct then we've done well getting rid. Regardless, he's by far our top scorer and we have built our attacking football around him and the manager needs to find other ways to win games. You can blather on however much you like, but those are simple facts. Do carry on with all the sarcastic bollocks if you fancy it, but you're not exactly covering yourself in glory. Madine put the ball in the net and even with him doing that we didn't score many. We've won the next game after he's gone, which is great; but that's Sammy's first goal in ages and not the type of goal you can expect to see every week.

We've sold reliable goals and we've not brought in reliable goals. The manager needs to find a way to get goals from players who've not been scoring recently. Fairly non-controversial stuff.

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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:57 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:34 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:13 pm
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:06 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:10 pm
nelson66 wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:05 pm
We already are a decent championship team - our results post October 2017 say so
We relied on Madine for those results. What we are now is up in the air.
Enough of this shite please.

Last I looked football was a team game. Madine did his bit for us this season no doubt but those results you speak of couldn't have been achieved without the other 10 behind him.
I don't think anyone is suggesting Madine played on his own. The fact remains that we built our attacking play around him and we'll have to see if we can find another way to reliably get the ball in the back of the net. We've scored 27 goals this season, I think I'm right in saying that Madine scored 10 of those and made 5 more. You can call it "shite" if you like, but we've been relying on Madine and now he's gone it remains to be seen who is going to step up and get us the goals we need to keep the points coming in.
Well, strangely enough, from the moment he's pissed off to Cardiff we appear (it might be an illusion, but I've seen it printed in newspapers and things) to be higher up in the league than we were when we 'relied' on the big lump. Maybe we never needed anybody to step up, maybe it was all a matter of waiting for those occupying entrenched positions to piss off, and the management possibly seeing other ways to play rather than the tediously uninventive shite that we seemed happy to plough on with week in week out, despite the fact for the majority of that time we were in a relegation position. (but, oh no, I'm completely wrong, because if you selectively select a precise slice of history, my god, how did anybody manage to buy the best striker the world has ever seen for less than fifty million! I mean, Christ, If we'd kept him, this time three years from now the Premier League would be at our feet).
You have a rather ridiculously entrenched position.

What we know is that Madine was top of a whole load of metrics for our team in attacking terms, as sky showed, including the most passes.

He was demonstrably integral to our side and our top scorer, top chance creater and top assist maker for goals.

Now we've had one game without him and won. However, it was a fantastic backs to the wall performance with a superb individual goal. Is that sustainable? I'd argue not entirely, but time will tell. We know that with Madine in the side our PPG was giving us a chance of staying up. We know Parky did not want to sell him.

We also know that if we go down you'll just blame the manager, rather than take a rational and balanced view that selling your top goalscorer in January, whoever they are makes staying up very difficult, when even with said top goalscorer you're right in the fight.

If our PPG without Madine are the same or better as they were with him (ignoring the failure of the first 12 games - and yes Madine was a part of those games but the relevant discussion is whether we continue the same form pre/post Madine) then great, we'll stay up and I'll be happy to say we've not missed him. But its a long, long way to that point. And I'll repeat this, Parky has done an absolutely outstanding job here, and I'll repeat his own assertion that if he keeps us up from here having had Madine sold against his wishes it will be his most impressive feat as manager, and would IMHO make him manager of the season in this league. (He won't actually win it because it will probably go to the Wolves guy who has spent a gazillion pounds but still).

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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by bedwetter2 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:47 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:38 pm
Honestly, I've no clue why you're going on with yourself but I'm assuming you've some stuff you need to get of your chest - nothing your saying seems related to anything I've said at all. I'm not particularly fussed Madine has gone and if the reported fees are correct then we've done well getting rid. Regardless, he's by far our top scorer and we have built our attacking football around him and the manager needs to find other ways to win games. You can blather on however much you like, but those are simple facts. Do carry on with all the sarcastic bollocks if you fancy it, but you're not exactly covering yourself in glory. Madine put the ball in the net and even with him doing that we didn't score many. We've won the next game after he's gone, which is great; but that's Sammy's first goal in ages and not the type of goal you can expect to see every week.

We've sold reliable goals and we've not brought in reliable goals. The manager needs to find a way to get goals from players who've not been scoring recently. Fairly non-controversial stuff.
I'd take issue with your reliable goals theory. For two and a half years anything but reliable, a short purple patch, then what? I contend reversion to type, either here or at Cardiff. I'm sure you remember Elmander and his much vaunted purple patch.

How do we get our goals in the future? I would suggest it should come from inclusiveness; encouraging, no, coaching the team to play as a true team. A band of brothers without the jealousy of who is favoured and who is unworthy of being paid the most.

Unfortunately most football managers/coaches are not like that. They have petty jealousies in the changing room and don't act to change the atmosphere.

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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:54 am

bedwetter2 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:47 am
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:38 pm
Honestly, I've no clue why you're going on with yourself but I'm assuming you've some stuff you need to get of your chest - nothing your saying seems related to anything I've said at all. I'm not particularly fussed Madine has gone and if the reported fees are correct then we've done well getting rid. Regardless, he's by far our top scorer and we have built our attacking football around him and the manager needs to find other ways to win games. You can blather on however much you like, but those are simple facts. Do carry on with all the sarcastic bollocks if you fancy it, but you're not exactly covering yourself in glory. Madine put the ball in the net and even with him doing that we didn't score many. We've won the next game after he's gone, which is great; but that's Sammy's first goal in ages and not the type of goal you can expect to see every week.

We've sold reliable goals and we've not brought in reliable goals. The manager needs to find a way to get goals from players who've not been scoring recently. Fairly non-controversial stuff.
I'd take issue with your reliable goals theory. For two and a half years anything but reliable, a short purple patch, then what? I contend reversion to type, either here or at Cardiff. I'm sure you remember Elmander and his much vaunted purple patch.

How do we get our goals in the future? I would suggest it should come from inclusiveness; encouraging, no, coaching the team to play as a true team. A band of brothers without the jealousy of who is favoured and who is unworthy of being paid the most.

Unfortunately most football managers/coaches are not like that. They have petty jealousies in the changing room and don't act to change the atmosphere.
I mean he got 10 last season and 10 already this. His first season here a total unmitigated disaster, not on his own there.

Parky has no doubt improved Madine no end. But the relevant point is 10 goals this season. Someone else could have scored more but didn't. He did.

When Vardy first went to Leicester he had a terrible first season, the fans didn't like him and he wanted to quit football.

Then he had a purple patch....

The point I'm making is that had Madine stayed and ended up with 15 goals, he'd have comfortably had the highest return any striker here has in a long time.

Whilst no doubt him going has pulled the spirit together and there is a siege mentality, between now and the end of the season someone is going to have to find "form" or a "purple patch" because as to this point there is little evidence we've enough goals in the squad to get the results to survive. Even with the new boys and their modest scoring records they've brought from their respective clubs (Forest).

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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by bristol_Wanderer3 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:56 am

We had scored five goals from the seven games prior to Madine's departure. And he was involved in all them, scoring four and assisting one. And what is more, we weren't creating many chances. From a result perspective we W3 D1 L3 of those games, and only conceded six goals, so we were essentially doing ok, but it was down to the defence improving and learning how to keep clean sheets at this level.

There is a chance that we were becoming over reliant on Madine. And there is also a chance, even a likelihood, that we would have a dip in form, either due to loss of form, fatigue (he has played every game this season), or injury, which would leave us without any method of scoring goals and no plan B. Clough and Walker should be fresh and hungry, and they are both young and have talent. It might turn out to be a good thing that we have had to change. Maybe it will wake a couple of our team up that they need to do more (eg. Vela), and give opportunities to guys who are fresh and have something to prove (ALF)?

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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by boltonboris » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:06 am

I loved that. I wish we could play every home game on a Friday night, it's great!!

Ameobi is a mercurial talent and when he's on it, there are not much better in this division

Clough was a huge lift and showed some really clever and sharp movement that we've been missing. He also brought Vela into the game and we look a better team when he is.

Henry is vital - He held everything together without really having much influence when we had the ball. Losing him will be a bigger loss than anybody. It's essential he's kept fit and we have ample back up.

Dervite had a couple of hairy moments with some trampoline on his boot touches. But he's very underrated and undervalued. Rarely lets us down when we play in a back 3. Pleased for him that he's stepped up

Weird that we look more dangerous in open play than on our own set-pieces. Not very Bolton at all. Shake your heads, lads
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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:06 pm

In fairness it’s about time Wheater and a Beevers stepped up the goals from set pieces. Missed Morais’ delivery maybe?

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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:09 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:06 pm
In fairness it’s about time Wheater and a Beevers stepped up the goals from set pieces. Missed Morais’ delivery maybe?
I think its that more that we don't win as many set pieces.
AND
Teams defend them better at this level.

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Re: Providing sexy answers, or a little mesmerised by bigger Bristols? BWFC v Bristol City 2/2/2018 8pm.

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:04 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:09 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:06 pm
In fairness it’s about time Wheater and a Beevers stepped up the goals from set pieces. Missed Morais’ delivery maybe?
I think its that more that we don't win as many set pieces.
AND
Teams defend them better at this level.
I got a bit twitchy on Friday every time Bristol got any free kicks, because, just like we do (or did) they send the big lads in. That Flint was about six-feet thirteen and Beevers found him hard to mark for their set pieces. Fortunately, we did okay and his one solid header went over the top. In fairness, we owed a lot to good defending that game. Much depends on the quality of delivery and also their keeper was sharp (ahem) on the ball. We do better with outswingers than inswingers against most decent keepers; balls into the box isn't our best strategy. Maybe we should pass the kicks wide and change the angles of delivery a bit.
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