A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by Prufrock » Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:10 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:52 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:25 pm
It's quite relevant.
Not really because given even with stills and replays it’s impossible to confidently say one way or the other then a goal can’t be given in real-time.

It was never being given without the goal-line tech.
I don't get what you mean then. You obviously don't mean to the game, because you know, it's pretty relevant.
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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:39 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:10 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:52 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:25 pm
It's quite relevant.
Not really because given even with stills and replays it’s impossible to confidently say one way or the other then a goal can’t be given in real-time.

It was never being given without the goal-line tech.
I don't get what you mean then. You obviously don't mean to the game, because you know, it's pretty relevant.

Whilst never doubting the loyalty of BWFC Insane's support or love of the Whites, there are, I confess ,times when he appears to be arguing with himself or jut for the sake of it. Why are we even discussing something that is entirely relevant and more importantly, that may affect the club's progress? ? Of course it's relevant.
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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:19 am

Taken in context, I think BWFCi is saying that while the goal may be arguable, the ref’s general demeanour and decision-making are strongly anti-Bolton. And I would agree with that.

Am I imagining it or was there a ref that Allardyce effectively accused of bias against us and he didn’t ref us again for years? Not Barry Knight.
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:42 pm
Whether the ball was over or not is a bit irrelevant. The refereeing display was shocking and his default was just to give Port Vale every single decision possible.

The fact is that I don’t believe you can referee how he did without having some sort of agenda. It looked decidedly deliberate to me and I’m convinced that’s exactly what’s going in the letter bolton have or are writing.

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by DJBlu » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:41 am

Was it Mike Dean? aka Mr Tranmere.

Could be Mike Riley too. He went on a rant that he'd sent off 5 Bolton players in 7 years I think.

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by irie Cee Bee » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:52 am

It looked like a goal when I saw it first but then I wondered if the ref would call a foul on their keeper that seemed to me happen just before the ball went over the line. The ref called neither so what can I say.

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:48 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:19 am
Taken in context, I think BWFCi is saying that while the goal may be arguable, the ref’s general demeanour and decision-making are strongly anti-Bolton. And I would agree with that.

Am I imagining it or was there a ref that Allardyce effectively accused of bias against us and he didn’t ref us again for years? Not Barry Knight.
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:42 pm
Whether the ball was over or not is a bit irrelevant. The refereeing display was shocking and his default was just to give Port Vale every single decision possible.

The fact is that I don’t believe you can referee how he did without having some sort of agenda. It looked decidedly deliberate to me and I’m convinced that’s exactly what’s going in the letter bolton have or are writing.
Yeah that’s exactly my point. The goal or not a goal is a debate and obviously if it went in then giving it would have had a huge bearing on the game. But given it looks tight to say the least even if it went over I doubt you could give it without the tech as it’s pretty clear it wasn’t over by a distance as some have tried to suggest.

But what matters now is the referee who clearly ran that game in a certain way that’s hard to explain unless he has some sort of agenda against us or for port vale.

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by nicholaldo » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:28 am

Right, but that's a separate argument. I was just disagreeing with the people claiming it was clearly a goal.

Nothing more, nothing less.

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:40 am

It was a good two feet over the line!
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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by DJBlu » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:28 am

Look at the shadow cast on the ball from the keeper's arm then look at frame 2 and where the keeper's arm is and the shadow.

Frame 1
line1.png
line1.png (3.15 MiB) Viewed 843 times
Frame 2
line2.png
line2.png (2.17 MiB) Viewed 843 times
The keeper's hand doesn't move( his upper body does) and it's inside the net. In the 1st frame, the ball is stretched on its way out and it's still behind the line. The shadow of the ball in the second frame shows it outside of the net. The first frame shows it inside of the net.

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:55 am

DJBlu wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:41 am
Was it Mike Dean? aka Mr Tranmere.

Could be Mike Riley too. He went on a rant that he'd sent off 5 Bolton players in 7 years I think.
It was riley. He didn’t ref us for along time. After the carling cup final and the double kick pen?

Torn on this one - I think you have to go after the ref as we clearly don’t want him again, there is an obvious bias. But, I’m panning Derek Adams and Evatts making me feel hypocritical! I didn’t think we should have appealed thomasons red as sometimes you look like we moan about everything and it can’t always work in our favour - two yellows of course can’t be appealed.

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by boltonboris » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:45 pm

Someone on twitter said it was Rob Styles(?)

Anyhow. Good point earned under the circumstances, in a game we would have lost previously Encouraging sign!

11v11 we win that game. No doubt in my mind. Yellows were probably harsh, but Santos has to ask himself why he's gotten into that situation. I think the 2nd one was probably unavoidable in the fact the striker initiated it and the ref couldn't wait to give it, but the first one, whilst nothing in it at all, was daft.

Great Jussi-esque save from their keeper to stop Morley's curler and a wonderful save by Trafford. Jon Dadi was excellent when he came on and offers us so much when we're under pressure. Top player. Love him and I've been singing that bloody song all weekend too :-/
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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:04 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:45 pm
Jon Dadi was excellent when he came on and offers us so much when we're under pressure.
You think? I respect your on-the-ground judgement but watching on screen I felt like he was even less reliable as an out-ball than Baka, off whom the ball often bounces randomly. Bod is an intelligent and hard-working player, but a velcro-chested target man he ain't. (He did however complain, correctly, at one team-mate who pinged it past him rather than playing into his body.)

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:10 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:04 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:45 pm
Jon Dadi was excellent when he came on and offers us so much when we're under pressure.
You think? I respect your on-the-ground judgement but watching on screen I felt like he was even less reliable as an out-ball than Baka, off whom the ball often bounces randomly. Bod is an intelligent and hard-working player, but a velcro-chested target man he ain't. (He did however complain, correctly, at one team-mate who pinged it past him rather than playing into his body.)
I thought he was bloody superb when he came on. Maybe in the ground it felt different.

I think the trouble is they were backwards for the circumstances. Baka was on whilst we still had energy but holding it and bringing others into the game isn’t his strength, he got in behind once and really should have scored.

Bod came on and did make it stick up front but the midfield were running out of legs to get up and support him. Bod would have been better for first hour then Baka to just try and hit in behind.

But didn’t work out that way.

Still for me Bod made a big difference in how he managed to keep the ball on a number of occasions and he worked incredibly hard chasing too.

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by Prufrock » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:10 pm

I agree Bod was good but not the bit about them being the wrong way around. I just think Bod is the better player but I thought he was excellent too. It's an utterly thankless task. We were camped in with no support. Your job isn't really to hold the ball up, because the cavalry aren't coming. It's to to pressure the defenders into a mistake/giving us a throw in or, if you can't do that, make them work really hard before it can come back. The number of times he made them make the extra passes back to the keeper, any then back out. Pretty much any other forward we have it would've been relentless defending but Bod bought them time.

And every now and then he did get hold of it too. He's got to be getting starts soon if he's fit. I like all our forwards, but Bod and Dapo is very exciting.
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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:28 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:10 pm
I agree Bod was good but not the bit about them being the wrong way around. I just think Bod is the better player but I thought he was excellent too. It's an utterly thankless task. We were camped in with no support. Your job isn't really to hold the ball up, because the cavalry aren't coming. It's to to pressure the defenders into a mistake/giving us a throw in or, if you can't do that, make them work really hard before it can come back. The number of times he made them make the extra passes back to the keeper, any then back out. Pretty much any other forward we have it would've been relentless defending but Bod bought them time.

And every now and then he did get hold of it too. He's got to be getting starts soon if he's fit. I like all our forwards, but Bod and Dapo is very exciting.
I think the last twenty minutes just chipping into the corners for Baka to chase with his pace would have maybe been better but agree with that.

Bod is big but his main quality is as a superbly intelligent footballer. Which means he can play well with anyone up front.

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by Mar » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:51 pm

https://youtu.be/o_bu1SRNPpc?t=657

Well we all know Santos lost his head in the match on Saturday, but I didn't quite notice that he was still pushing when the repeated corner came in. He was quite lucky that the Port Vale player didn't decide to do a repeat and get him sent off in that manner. See video at time for a bit of clarity.

Clearly unsettled in that match.

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:21 pm

BN: "The Bolton boss landed a £1,000 fine for his comments at the half-time interval during Saturday's game against Port Vale."

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:40 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:21 pm
BN: "The Bolton boss landed a £1,000 fine for his comments at the half-time interval during Saturday's game against Port Vale."
I hope he got our money's worth :-)

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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:55 am

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:10 pm
I agree Bod was good but not the bit about them being the wrong way around. I just think Bod is the better player but I thought he was excellent too. It's an utterly thankless task. We were camped in with no support. Your job isn't really to hold the ball up, because the cavalry aren't coming. It's to to pressure the defenders into a mistake/giving us a throw in or, if you can't do that, make them work really hard before it can come back. The number of times he made them make the extra passes back to the keeper, any then back out. Pretty much any other forward we have it would've been relentless defending but Bod bought them time.

And every now and then he did get hold of it too. He's got to be getting starts soon if he's fit. I like all our forwards, but Bod and Dapo is very exciting.
In full agreement with all of this. Although I didn't see the game, I followed it as ever via Iles and comments here. In theory and principal and ever having been a total Kevin Davis fan, a front man's job is far different now than in previous eras. Having at one time been a No 9 shirt I also know what a thankless job it can be. We have another El Cid warrior in Dion Charles, so yes, I'm a Bod and Charles fan. :oyea:
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Re: A Vale of tears in The Park? Port Vale away Sat 13th Aug.3-0 'clock.

Post by boltonboris » Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:48 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:04 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:45 pm
Jon Dadi was excellent when he came on and offers us so much when we're under pressure.
You think? I respect your on-the-ground judgement but watching on screen I felt like he was even less reliable as an out-ball than Baka, off whom the ball often bounces randomly. Bod is an intelligent and hard-working player, but a velcro-chested target man he ain't. (He did however complain, correctly, at one team-mate who pinged it past him rather than playing into his body.)
Ball carrying. Beating men, forcing corners and throw-ins

Don't necessarily mean back to goal waiting for support - 4, or 5 times he got the ball turned and ran at them. 20-30 yards in a matter of seconds and allowed the defence a breather when he forced a stoppage
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