Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:10 pm

Baxter would be a boost, let's see. Centre-backs I've banged on about - Geth-Taylor-Toal for me, Manish.

Midfield – Sheehan will be looking forward to a home game against a team not renowned for the high press. We'll miss Thomo but (1) it's an opportunity for someone, be that Maghoma, Morley or CMG and (2) let's face it, Thomo did nothing for the last hour on Saturday. Wycombe have sometimes been susceptible to runners form midfield so I'd be tempted to go Sheehan-Dempsey-Maghoma, but again I'd like to see CMG get a good spell as an 8 if the game-frame permits.

Out wide, Cogz will presumably be back, fully rested and with a spring in his step; Ramsay may well be out of the 18 after an underwhelming 45, but let's not make out that there's no hope whatsoever for a player Liverpool deemed worthy of a £4.2m basic fee plus a five-year contract. Ogbeta is an option on the other side if Ashworth needs rotating (rather than dropping) – so I suppose is Iredale, who would add height at defensive set-pieces, but that selection would surprise me in a game we need to look to win.

Up top is the big one. Evatt has said that we didn't sign Collins to keep him on the bench. I would expect tonight to be the AC/DC unveiling - but I thought that on Saturday...

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:32 pm

It’s a fair point on height. Taylor’s fitness is my concern - he’s a waste of an attacking sub. Stopped us swapping Dempsey out on Saturday. Iredale is over 6 foot and he’s not bad in the air…

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by DJBlu » Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:33 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:27 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:43 pm
This is just a test. I am going to see if I can start a thread in which the game is not abandonded within 9 minutes.
I'm not going to make a prediction as I haven't got a clue.
Ha, good luck buddy. I got banned from thread starting for just getting a draw. Best hope for a win.. :lol:

:oyea: ae:) ae:)
:lol:

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by The_Gun » Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:49 pm

Surprised no one else seems to think Dion should be dropped. I get he’s got a lot of credit in the bank, but he’s been utter bobbins the past few games.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:01 pm

Victor was worse. Dions top scorer.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:02 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:32 pm
It’s a fair point on height. Taylor’s fitness is my concern - he’s a waste of an attacking sub. Stopped us swapping Dempsey out on Saturday. Iredale is over 6 foot and he’s not bad in the air…
A reasonable point, but then Evatt hasn't always made five changes.

He did on Saturday but he didn't against Barnsley (four subs); in the game before that (Carlisle) he'd only made three changes as we went into time added on; in the one before that (Cheltenham) he only made three all told. There were five at Orient, but only four in the Luton replay (one enforced at half-time). Maybe we were short-staffed then but it seems he only really looks to the bench en masse when we're struggling.

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:49 pm
Surprised no one else seems to think Dion should be dropped. I get he’s got a lot of credit in the bank, but he’s been utter bobbins the past few games.
Maybe more would if Vic were on fire, but he's hardly Johnny Goals at the moment either (like Dion, he has just one in 2024), and on Saturday he looked lost.

I think there's also the hope that Collins will load the gun for Dion to fire the bullets. He usually has a slump during the season but equally he usually comes out of it - and that's not as easy when he's riding the pine.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:03 pm

We don't drop people. We rotate. :-) I guess part of the problem is who you're bringing in. Whether our other four would be more likely to score, dunno. Obvs there's now Collins too who I'd expect to get a start when IE is comfy he's ready for one. Looking at last 10 League games, think it's 2 each for Dion and Vic.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by The_Gun » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:10 pm

Vic’s generally been in better form than Dion, as in their all round play, rather than just goal returns.

That said, I thought the Bod - Collins partnership looked promising in whichever game it was they played together, and I think we should give that a go.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by Mar » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:15 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:49 pm
Surprised no one else seems to think Dion should be dropped. I get he’s got a lot of credit in the bank, but he’s been utter bobbins the past few games.
In the last 10 games, our strike force has barely scored.

Gomes - 1 (Northampton)
Adeboyejo - 1 (Cheltenham)
Jerome - 1 (Accrington Stanley) (Cup)
Charles - 1 (Luton) (Cup)


I'm seeing Charles doing the same runs as per usual. He's often a lot wider than someone getting on the end of efforts. He's still contributing quite well in terms of ball progression but he's missing that finishing edge. He's still the best forward we've got out there for me, he can turn and drive the ball forward, but we need better supply into him.

The fact that our forwards are putting up so few goals would suggest an issue with the system. Presumably losing Randy and JDC for games hasn't helped. The return of Santos should alleviate some of that as it'll help bring Iredale into the LWB slot.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:17 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:10 pm
Vic’s generally been in better form than Dion, as in their all round play, rather than just goal returns.

That said, I thought the Bod - Collins partnership looked promising in whichever game it was they played together, and I think we should give that a go.
He really has not. He was hooked half time after 6 touches.

We've got to at some point try and make Collins and Charles click as a partnership - you want your best two strikers out there ideally.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:23 pm

Mar wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:15 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:49 pm
Surprised no one else seems to think Dion should be dropped. I get he’s got a lot of credit in the bank, but he’s been utter bobbins the past few games.
In the last 10 games, our strike force has barely scored.

Gomes - 1 (Northampton)
Adeboyejo - 1 (Cheltenham)
Jerome - 1 (Accrington Stanley) (Cup)
Charles - 1 (Luton) (Cup)


I'm seeing Charles doing the same runs as per usual. He's often a lot wider than someone getting on the end of efforts. He's still contributing quite well in terms of ball progression but he's missing that finishing edge. He's still the best forward we've got out there for me, he can turn and drive the ball forward, but we need better supply into him.

The fact that our forwards are putting up so few goals would suggest an issue with the system. Presumably losing Randy and JDC for games hasn't helped. The return of Santos should alleviate some of that as it'll help bring Iredale into the LWB slot.
Why would that help our goals or chances created? Iredale is a centre half or left back. He's not going to be creating a load. Ashworth and Ogbeta are more suited to the wing back role.

I think our issue is related to loss of form, maybe some tired legs in midfield primarily. Thomasson who has been easily our best mid has been missing through suspension or looking tired to me. Sheehan has also dropped off, noticeably. Maghoma is in and out. Dempsey similar. Morley hasn't really stepped up.

Front two have dropped off for sure - and then we've had injuries at the back so had to reorganise.

Its all come at once which is a problem. You will have these runs in a season but that has to be the end of it. We need to get back to winning now - and winning regularly. We may have to find a reshaping of the side in terms of personnel to carry us through the second half of the season. Some may have run their course primarily. I don't think the cup games and refusal to rest them has helped us at all.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:32 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:10 pm
I thought the Bod - Collins partnership looked promising in whichever game it was they played together, and I think we should give that a go.
Barnsley, when they both came on the the 63rd minute. I agree that they helped us back into the game - Collins assisted the equaliser with his second touch, and Bod had 20 touches, which was only one fewer than Dion managed in twice as long.

However, Bod also lost possession 4 times - more than Dion. I suspect he "asked different questions", which is what you want subs to do, but if I were a Wycombe defender I'd rather face the Icelander than the Lancastrian. Where Bod could be useful IMO is later on, as an intelligent substitute finding spaces (and team-mates).

What I think doesn't really matter – but it's also worth noting that Evatt dropped Bod not Jerome from the Cambridge 18, and brought on the auld fella at Northampton while Bod languished unused on the bench. Not that it wouldn't be a huge surprise if Cameron started, but he does currently seem in front of JDB – and while we're all expecting a start for Collins at some point soon, it would be a big statement to 'rotate' both Dion and Vic to the bench.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by Mar » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:40 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:23 pm
Mar wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:15 pm
The fact that our forwards are putting up so few goals would suggest an issue with the system. Presumably losing Randy and JDC for games hasn't helped. The return of Santos should alleviate some of that as it'll help bring Iredale into the LWB slot.
Why would that help our goals or chances created? Iredale is a centre half or left back. He's not going to be creating a load. Ashworth and Ogbeta are more suited to the wing back role.
Iredale's been at the club over 18 months now and has over 50 appearances. He'll know the system and be able to apply exactly what Evatt is wanting of him.

Completely different story with the likes of Ramsay, Ogbeta and Taylor. Ashworth has been here since the start of the season so should be familiar but he was signed as cover for Williams and not the main man, it's a big ask to have him deliver the same level of performances as Randell.

I'd argue its far better to embed the newbies in by having them play in a squad that knows exactly what's required of them.

Having watched the first half of the Northampton game we were incredibly reliant upon Ashworth for our attacks, Ramsay had a shocker of a game and the best attack we had was via Jones on the overlap.

There's an element of nervousness about carrying that many new faces, so whatever can be done to simplify things should hopefully help.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by Mar » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:47 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:32 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:10 pm
I thought the Bod - Collins partnership looked promising in whichever game it was they played together, and I think we should give that a go.
Barnsley, when they both came on the the 63rd minute. I agree that they helped us back into the game - Collins assisted the equaliser with his second touch, and Bod had 20 touches, which was only one fewer than Dion managed in twice as long.

However, Bod also lost possession 4 times - more than Dion. I suspect he "asked different questions", which is what you want subs to do, but if I were a Wycombe defender I'd rather face the Icelander than the Lancastrian. Where Bod could be useful IMO is later on, as an intelligent substitute finding spaces (and team-mates).

What I think doesn't really matter – but it's also worth noting that Evatt dropped Bod not Jerome from the Cambridge 18, and brought on the auld fella at Northampton while Bod languished unused on the bench. Not that it wouldn't be a huge surprise if Cameron started, but he does currently seem in front of JDB – and while we're all expecting a start for Collins at some point soon, it would be a big statement to 'rotate' both Dion and Vic to the bench.
The fact Jerome's getting run outs ahead of JDB suggests that he's trying to encorporate everyone, or at least he trusts Jerome to do the defensive side better than JDB. Regardless, I find it baffling that given the Bod - Collins effectiveness against Barnsley that he'd mix it up and go with Collins and JDB.

Are we going to reach the point where time is effectively called on Jerome's playing time as he transitions to a coaching role, or are we going to see this situation playing out throughout the rest of the season?

I feel we'd be far more effective should JDB coming on than Jerome.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:05 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:32 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:10 pm
I thought the Bod - Collins partnership looked promising in whichever game it was they played together, and I think we should give that a go.
Barnsley, when they both came on the the 63rd minute. I agree that they helped us back into the game - Collins assisted the equaliser with his second touch, and Bod had 20 touches, which was only one fewer than Dion managed in twice as long.

However, Bod also lost possession 4 times - more than Dion. I suspect he "asked different questions", which is what you want subs to do, but if I were a Wycombe defender I'd rather face the Icelander than the Lancastrian. Where Bod could be useful IMO is later on, as an intelligent substitute finding spaces (and team-mates).

What I think doesn't really matter – but it's also worth noting that Evatt dropped Bod not Jerome from the Cambridge 18, and brought on the auld fella at Northampton while Bod languished unused on the bench. Not that it wouldn't be a huge surprise if Cameron started, but he does currently seem in front of JDB – and while we're all expecting a start for Collins at some point soon, it would be a big statement to 'rotate' both Dion and Vic to the bench.
I don't think it's unfair to say that maybe Dion/Vic have been generally at the same sort of level over the course of the last few games - but that's really due to declination in Dion rather than Vic caught him up. Like you, I'm not sure Evatt would rotate both out, but looking at the last game v Wycombe, I think they were pretty well marshalled, having 1 shot between them in a game where we bagged 4, albeit it was the proverbial "late, late show" after getting pegged back to 2-2 on 82 minutes - we bagged the winning 2 when both had been subbed off.

I don't believe Evatt sees JDB as a "starter," generally, so you'd probably be contemplating Collins/Jerome - which I don't see happening either. I wouldn't be against Dion getting a day off, but I'd probably back on Collins/Vic in that scenario.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:06 pm

Mar wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:47 pm
The fact Jerome's getting run outs ahead of JDB suggests that he's trying to encorporate everyone, or at least he trusts Jerome to do the defensive side better than JDB. Regardless, I find it baffling that given the Bod - Collins effectiveness against Barnsley that he'd mix it up and go with Collins and JDB.

Are we going to reach the point where time is effectively called on Jerome's playing time as he transitions to a coaching role, or are we going to see this situation playing out throughout the rest of the season?

I feel we'd be far more effective should JDB coming on than Jerome.
I think Evatt would say it's horses for courses - and that Jerome's race is not yet run. Myself, like you I think we're more likely to get a goal from Bod, although it's not like he's a surefire grabber either. He's scored six this season, but two were against Fourth Division opposition, three against non-leaguers and one against United's kids. But he has two league assists - a lovely rolled pass for Tomo's smasher vs Blackpool and an even better angled through-ball for Cogz' opener in the home game against Orient. For comparison, Cameron's only "goal involvement" in any game was his opener in the Sherpa at Accy.

I don't think we'll see Jerome bow out at any point this season - he'll be around just in case. The sad thing is that JDB hasn't justified the contract extension. I really like him but I'm not sure many of us would approve the deal had we been told that by February he'd be behind Jerome and still goalless in the league. Since the September break he's had minutes in every (completed!) game bar three and hasn't made an utterly compelling case for inclusion.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by bw@bw » Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:20 pm

just looking at Tuesdays fixtures
All of the Top 7 are playing teams outside the Top 10
And 5 of the 7 are at home

I think that makes this a "must win" game

Anything else would see us slip back
What goes around may still come around

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:27 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:49 pm
Surprised no one else seems to think Dion should be dropped. I get he’s got a lot of credit in the bank, but he’s been utter bobbins the past few games.
Might be just a case of "If it's not broke, don't fix it". Dion works his walnuts off for the team in addition to being striker and leading goal scorer. He's having a bit of a bad spell; Why knock his confidence even further? Until we actually lose, keep him in and it'll even itself out. Amazing what scoring a goal can do to boost confidence especially when nothing's actually needing surgery to cure a headache. Go Dion, get in there boy... :oyea:
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by Mar » Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:52 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:06 pm
I don't think we'll see Jerome bow out at any point this season - he'll be around just in case. The sad thing is that JDB hasn't justified the contract extension. I really like him but I'm not sure many of us would approve the deal had we been told that by February he'd be behind Jerome and still goalless in the league. Since the September break he's had minutes in every (completed!) game bar three and hasn't made an utterly compelling case for inclusion.
I think its fair to say he hasn't justified the extension and that knowing what we know now we'd've probably decided against it. That being said I don't think anyone would've been jumping at the gun to get Jerome signed up and that the game time for our subs, sparingly as the case may be, is best served for the better players and by that metric it's JDB.

Instead we're seeing Bod coming on alongside Jerome and expecting magic to happen when neither have had exceptional chemistry. It's a far cry from the Baka - Bod days.

As critical as we can be over JDB's output, he did score against Carlisle and it got ruled out, despite camera evidence to the contrary.


Its been a tough season in the league for Bod. Very little minutes early on (109 mins up to the start of November). Coming on alongside fellow strugglers N'lundulu and Jerome and when he does finally get given a chance in the league, its in some of our toughest games of the season (Portsmouth (A), up top alone 10 men vs Bristol Rovers) and when he does finally get an assist (Leyton Orient), he then gets one more chance and then put to the back of the pecking order.

I'd say there's been an element of JDB not taking his chance, but i'd also argue that there's a case for the platform to perform hasn't really been there in the league. He's delivered in the cups, but it's not like he's had an easy chance in the league.

I'd quite happily have him starting over Vic tomorrow with him alongside Charles to freshen things up. Fresh legs with the rotation policy. Perhaps thats why he didn't get a run out against Northampton.

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Re: Wandering, Why come back home? Bolton v Wycombe - 13th Feb 2024 19:45pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:14 pm

Mar wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:52 pm
I think its fair to say he hasn't justified the extension and that knowing what we know now we'd've probably decided against it. That being said I don't think anyone would've been jumping at the gun to get Jerome signed up and that the game time for our subs, sparingly as the case may be, is best served for the better players and by that metric it's JDB.

Instead we're seeing Bod coming on alongside Jerome and expecting magic to happen when neither have had exceptional chemistry. It's a far cry from the Baka - Bod days.

As critical as we can be over JDB's output, he did score against Carlisle and it got ruled out, despite camera evidence to the contrary.


Its been a tough season in the league for Bod. Very little minutes early on (109 mins up to the start of November). Coming on alongside fellow strugglers N'lundulu and Jerome and when he does finally get given a chance in the league, its in some of our toughest games of the season (Portsmouth (A), up top alone 10 men vs Bristol Rovers) and when he does finally get an assist (Leyton Orient), he then gets one more chance and then put to the back of the pecking order.

I'd say there's been an element of JDB not taking his chance, but i'd also argue that there's a case for the platform to perform hasn't really been there in the league. He's delivered in the cups, but it's not like he's had an easy chance in the league.

I'd quite happily have him starting over Vic tomorrow with him alongside Charles to freshen things up. Fresh legs with the rotation policy. Perhaps thats why he didn't get a run out against Northampton.
Aye, he's not had a lot of luck – except perhaps with injuries. Barring an early hamstring pull – which admittedly will have affected his preseason prep - he's not been out of commission, just out of favour. Part of that was Dion/Vic becoming a very effective partnership (and let's not forget, for all the woe we're still not doing badly...), but it has felt all season like there's been a lack of striker depth and none of the alternatives have grasped that nettle.

As you say, it's very different from the times when Bod and Baka would come on and ask very different questions. I haven't got the comparative "goal involvements from substitutes" to hand, but I'd suggest it's not very impressive for this season's BWFC – and again, imagine if it had been, a good season would have been even better. Maybe that's to come in the spring.

Minor quibble that he was put to the back of the queue after his January starts. He started again at Fleetwood and was almost always off the bench before Jerome until this last week. He's had chances – he's made 32 appearances, albeit obviously some were only minimal. In the end, I suspect Worthy is right that Evatt no longer sees Bod as a starter. And if Collins is more 10 than 9, I think that only further limits Bod's chances.

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