Re: Twixt Cups and Lips. Home to Shrewbury Town, Tuesday Apr 16th 7-45.

[Worthy4England]

Also, above and beyond any systems or otherwise we absolutely have to stop getting done over and over by the same cut back set piece!

Oh. Yes. I mean it's not as if we've only seen it the once!

[Prufrock]

Should be easy to sort but we've been conceding it for nearly two years now.

[truewhite15]

Interesting. I was under the impression that every single one of players was a non-league carthorse/pub player. Now it's an excellent squad doing it all in spite of an out-of-his-depth manager.

Curious.

[dave the minion]

Well I for one - as the eternal optimist - reckon we're going up in 2nd.

derby are going to lose and draw one, we're going to win both our games.

remember, you heard it here first, and you're all welcome by the way!!

[The_Gun]

Well I for one - as the eternal optimist - reckon we're going up in 2nd.

derby are going to lose and draw one, we're going to win both our games.

remember, you heard it here first, and you're all welcome by the way!!

I reckon we rest anyone carrying a knock now for the playoffs, so I wouldn't be too confident of picking up wins in these next two.

[Worthy4England]

I'm (in part) with DTM. Strongest XI out on Saturday and see where we're at, at 17:00. Review at that point. Going into the P/Os should that be the outcome, I think has more benefit with 2 decent wins than 2 bang average draws. Unlike DTM, I think we'll just miss out, but I'd still be giving it everything until the maths stops being possible.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think in isolation Evatts comments look very defeatist. You play on till it’s mathematically impossible.

But I think he’s reflecting on Santos, Sheehan and Jones and probably weighing up that he may need to protect them somewhat across the next two games. If they were fully fit it’s a different question.

I also think that it’s critical Charles plays - but again in a situation where it was in our hands for automatics I think Dion would be on the bench as he’s not match sharp yet. But given automatics are unlikely it’s critical he gets up to speed even if that is at expense of results in the next two games.

So I think that’s where he’s coming from. I’ve seen suggestions he looks and sounds like a beaten man but I think he’s been that way for a good few months now. I hope that behind closed doors he’s got that fire and fight still there.

[officer_dibble]

Agreed on Charles - am hoping what we saw Tuesday was a reflection of him not being sharp, and the way to sort that is a start on Saturday.

[BWFC_Insane]

Agreed on Charles - am hoping what we saw Tuesday was a reflection of him not being sharp, and the way to sort that is a start on Saturday.

We’ve seen that in Evatt sides it can take players weeks to get up to speed. I’m not sure we will see a fully fit and firing Charles this season again. It’s what level we can get him to. My expectation is he will in the play off games be a sub who can come on and impact a game later on. But to even do that he needs minutes now probably so long as it isn’t too big a risk.

Same is true of Nlundulu. It’s a tough situation because I think it’s too big an ask for any of these to start the play off games in massive games having been out so long. Just click into top form is a big ask.


Which means Jerome and Collins. Though I’d be changing the system to a 433 now and having a look at that. Personally.

[Mar]

First off, welcome back BWFC_Insane. Always nice to have varying opinions on the forum.

As for the match, I barely caught it on Tuesday night, managed to have it on in the background whilst working in a night shift in Dusseldorf, so i'm currently watching it on catchup.

I get the impression that the tactics, the subs and the players were all prescripted, just like the defeat. I don't think it was the intention to drop points, but I certainly don't think enough steps were taken to stop it.

Now there's nothing Evatt can do about the glaring misses (Ogbeta's) for example, so we can rue those, but we've had enough instances of those to find them irksome. What Evatt and the team could be doing is getting those fine marginal gains that we're not getting.

There's a moment in the first half where Jerome is grappling with the defender, gets pulled in the box but doesn't claim for a pen. Claim for the pen dammit, it doesn't have to be the right call, it just has to be the call that gets us over the line. Portsmouth's shithouses have been doing it all season to great effect. Are we too good to not claim for a pen?


Just seen the first Shrewsbury goal. Fair play to Maghoma, Dempsey and JDC, really busting a gut to get back and support, lovely to see. But Ogbeta, hang your head in shame, you've lost the ball and not tried to atone for your error, nothing wrong with mistakes, but to just casually let it go and walk back needs looking at. Would prefer to see the Ricardo Gardner version of Ogbeta and not the Martin Petrov rendition.

[Worthy4England]

For me Ogbeta didn't play Kamara defensively well on Saturday either. We got away with one but not both...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Well I for one - as the eternal optimist - reckon we're going up in 2nd.

derby are going to lose and draw one, we're going to win both our games.

remember, you heard it here first, and you're all welcome by the way!!

I think we'll go into the Peterborough match with Derby guaranteed 2nd and we win 4-0. Blow it away in the play-offs and draw at home despite 80% possession and 20 shots on goal. Evatt will get mardy and we'll have a summer of doom and hand wringing,

[BWFC_Insane]

Well I for one - as the eternal optimist - reckon we're going up in 2nd.

derby are going to lose and draw one, we're going to win both our games.

remember, you heard it here first, and you're all welcome by the way!!

I think we'll go into the Peterborough match with Derby guaranteed 2nd and we win 4-0. Blow it away in the play-offs and draw at home despite 80% possession and 20 shots on goal. Evatt will get mardy and we'll have a summer of doom and hand wringing,

Has that sort of feel aye. We have a better team than the other play off sides but it’s down to the players and manager to lift the mentality, raise the work rate, stop feeling sorry for themselves and realise that anything you win in football is hard. No side will roll over.

There is far too much resignation and arm waving when after twenty minutes we haven’t scored. Not enough graft, grit and determination.

I noted Jerome’s comments hinted at it. No good being brilliant every so often then struggling when you aren’t. Promotion relies and nowadays is only achievable by sides able to grind out consistent wins. That in league one means flexibility in approach and an ability to win a game in lots of different ways. Often when you have to work harder than the opposition even if you aren’t dominating the ball.

Play offs are horrible. Absolutely awful unless you win them. The problem I have is I think we can win them but only if we accept that to do so we need to roll our sleeves up put the real hard yards in stop worrying about looking pretty and start focussing on what matters which is scoring more than the opposition. The more touches and passes we take in and around their box the less likely we are to score. The more quickly we shoot or get delivery into the box the more likely we are to score. We don’t need to always try and play a high line and have 70% possession. We actually can play on the counter well. Teams have worked us out and the template for stopping what we do is set.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Has that sort of feel aye. We have a better team than the other play off sides but it’s down to the players and manager to lift the mentality, raise the work rate, stop feeling sorry for themselves and realise that anything you win in football is hard. No side will roll over.

There is far too much resignation and arm waving when after twenty minutes we haven’t scored. Not enough graft, grit and determination.

I noted Jerome’s comments hinted at it. No good being brilliant every so often then struggling when you aren’t. Promotion relies and nowadays is only achievable by sides able to grind out consistent wins. That in league one means flexibility in approach and an ability to win a game in lots of different ways. Often when you have to work harder than the opposition even if you aren’t dominating the ball.

Play offs are horrible. Absolutely awful unless you win them. The problem I have is I think we can win them but only if we accept that to do so we need to roll our sleeves up put the real hard yards in stop worrying about looking pretty and start focussing on what matters which is scoring more than the opposition. The more touches and passes we take in and around their box the less likely we are to score. The more quickly we shoot or get delivery into the box the more likely we are to score. We don’t need to always try and play a high line and have 70% possession. We actually can play on the counter well. Teams have worked us out and the template for stopping what we do is set.

It is frustrating and to a degree we have to accept some inconsistency, otherwise these players would be one or two levels up. Stop playing the ball behind players on the break and learn to delivery a reasonably consistent ball into the box and I reckon we'd be enough points further on to take 2nd. We definitely need more pragmatism and to mix things up a little. As you say, we can break well.

Good to see you back btw

[DJBlu]

Well I for one - as the eternal optimist - reckon we're going up in 2nd.

derby are going to lose and draw one, we're going to win both our games.

remember, you heard it here first, and you're all welcome by the way!!

I think we'll go into the Peterborough match with Derby guaranteed 2nd and we win 4-0. Blow it away in the play-offs and draw at home despite 80% possession and 20 shots on goal. Evatt will get mardy and we'll have a summer of doom and hand wringing,

This

[boltonboris]

The more touches and passes we take in and around their box the less likely we are to score. The more quickly we shoot or get delivery into the box the more likely we are to score.

I think statistically the opposite is true. The teams who sling the ball in from wide areas score less goals, than the ones who pass the ball in and around the box

More touches in opposition penalty area during a game result in a higher XG, which usually results in a higher goal tally.

It could also be said that we are pretty susceptible to conceding dangerous counter attacks when we don't win the 1st contact from a cross high up the pitch

[BWFC_Insane]

Has that sort of feel aye. We have a better team than the other play off sides but it’s down to the players and manager to lift the mentality, raise the work rate, stop feeling sorry for themselves and realise that anything you win in football is hard. No side will roll over.

There is far too much resignation and arm waving when after twenty minutes we haven’t scored. Not enough graft, grit and determination.

I noted Jerome’s comments hinted at it. No good being brilliant every so often then struggling when you aren’t. Promotion relies and nowadays is only achievable by sides able to grind out consistent wins. That in league one means flexibility in approach and an ability to win a game in lots of different ways. Often when you have to work harder than the opposition even if you aren’t dominating the ball.

Play offs are horrible. Absolutely awful unless you win them. The problem I have is I think we can win them but only if we accept that to do so we need to roll our sleeves up put the real hard yards in stop worrying about looking pretty and start focussing on what matters which is scoring more than the opposition. The more touches and passes we take in and around their box the less likely we are to score. The more quickly we shoot or get delivery into the box the more likely we are to score. We don’t need to always try and play a high line and have 70% possession. We actually can play on the counter well. Teams have worked us out and the template for stopping what we do is set.

It is frustrating and to a degree we have to accept some inconsistency, otherwise these players would be one or two levels up. Stop playing the ball behind players on the break and learn to delivery a reasonably consistent ball into the box and I reckon we'd be enough points further on to take 2nd. We definitely need more pragmatism and to mix things up a little. As you say, we can break well.

Good to see you back btw

Delivery into box is for me a big problem but then it comes down to - what is realistic with league one players in this system.

Cogley is a very good wing back IMO but he struggles to create enough with the ball he has. I'm not sure it is realistic to expect better though. I suppose you have Ogbeta who is better at the other side of the game, going forwards but can't and won't defend. So again - is a significantly better wing back likely? Maybe not.

As Pru frequently says if we had wingers higher up the pitch it would change that dynamic - but everything is on a wing back to take his man on, create the chance and if they lose it get back and defend.

[BWFC_Insane]

The more touches and passes we take in and around their box the less likely we are to score. The more quickly we shoot or get delivery into the box the more likely we are to score.

I think statistically the opposite is true. The teams who sling the ball in from wide areas score less goals, than the ones who pass the ball in and around the box

More touches in opposition penalty area during a game result in a higher XG, which usually results in a higher goal tally.

It could also be said that we are pretty susceptible to conceding dangerous counter attacks when we don't win the 1st contact from a cross high up the pitch

The earlier you strike a ball the more likely it is to be a goal. A second touch reduces the probability drastically, a third touch even more.

So in my view we often play shuffle ball, against a defence, and take a shot late when the defence and keeper are fully set. We see this frequently. Our attacking plan is almost entirely built around going back into midfield out to the other side trying to get the wing back in behind or isolated and then them pulling the ball back. Which is fine but ultimately its becoming easier to stop. We almost never hit the front or back posts. Something that anyone who watched Bolton in the mid 90's knows is how we scored probably half of our goals if not more.

[TANGODANCER]

If you left a grandchild an Olympic bronze medal you had won, would they be immensely proud and see you as the third best in the world, or think if only you'd tried a bit harder you could have won gold. Sadly, too many think the latter these days. This reflects in seeing Ian Evatt as getting praise...or the sack depending on where we finish. You have to wonder if finishing mid-table is actually so bad after all. Like Bob Dylan aid "You just wanna be on the side that's winning". I've supported Bolton all my (long) life. Nothing will change that. I hope for the best , the rest is my usual Que Sera. " COME ON YOU WHITES.."

[knobpolisher]

The earlier you strike a ball the more likely it is to be a goal. A second touch reduces the probability drastically, a third touch even more.

So in my view we often play shuffle ball, against a defence, and take a shot late when the defence and keeper are fully set. We see this frequently. Our attacking plan is almost entirely built around going back into midfield out to the other side trying to get the wing back in behind or isolated and then them pulling the ball back. Which is fine but ultimately its becoming easier to stop. We almost never hit the front or back posts. Something that anyone who watched Bolton in the mid 90's knows is how we scored probably half of our goals if not more.

A perfect example was man City last night trying to walk the ball in.