Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

[BWFC_Insane]

Aye, mebbes. 54% now.

Still wondering who the new Rioch is. Best suggestion seems to be a bloke whose four most recent Champo seasons ended in 14th, 9th, 16th and 16th before he got fired in 20th. Not the most Bruce record.

Maybe we were just very very lucky to have Bruce Rioch, and indeed Sam Allardyce. (Although given the latter bottled the play-offs at Blackpool after a 2-0 first-leg win, and then lost three semis in a season for us including a shameful derby defeat to hated rivals, perhaps it's good we had some belief and patience back then.)

First full season out of the champo. First season out of this league.

So didn’t need that much patience.

[TANGODANCER]

Common sense seems to be overhauling passion. Change is needed and I think he must know it, , but not the manager, just his mind.

[BWFC_Insane]

Common sense seems to be overhauling passion. Change is needed and I think he must know it, , but not the manager, just his mind.

Can we think of one example where a longstanding manager has failed in multiple seasons with a team and squad entirely built by themselves - has suddenly changed within the same job sufficiently to deliver success?

I know football is an industry where you don’t get a lot of time. But I can’t think of many if any examples where sticking with a manager in these circumstances produces anything good.

Bolton’s own history teaches us this. Stuck with Neal. Cost us dearly. Stuck with Todd after relegation the second time - cost us dearly. Stuck with Coyle - cost us our whole future.

I think it seems likely Evatt will stay and doesn’t seem like anyone will sack him. Which concerns me massively as we seem rudderless and clueless. But mostly I can’t see anything changing for the better next season.

If Evatt was capable of the sort of change needed why didn’t he effect that after we lost last year in the play offs to Barnsley? Why didn’t he see what we’ve been saying all season about our inability to perform when it matters?

If change was possible then the fact he’s not affected it is unforgivable. But I think the reality is that he needs to go elsewhere and learn the game and maybe overtime will change. I am entirely certain that won’t happen here.

[Bertie Wooster]

Common sense seems to be overhauling passion. Change is needed and I think he must know it, , but not the manager, just his mind.

How is this done, how do you get a very stubborn Evatt to change his ideology & philosophy to accept that what's gone before hasn't worked - just curious ?

Also, to all the people voting stay - is this on the basis that he will change or is it accepting that it will just be more of the same ?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I suspect that these days, if we tried to hire a manager whose experience in this country amounted to a title win two divisions below our station and a humiliatingly hubristic failed play-off attempt a division below us three years previously, fans would be seriously underwhelmed.

Unless of course he wore the shirt, in which case #passion.

As it turned out, Sam was a superb managerial appointment. But his managerial CV was underwhelming – in fact, right now Evatt is more proven as a manager than Allardyce was when we hired him.

It could very well be - almost certainly will - that Evatt forever remains unfit to lace Sam's shoes. All I'm saying is that - while (one more time) Evatt MUST improve if he stays, and this season is a disappointment - we are setting expectations ridiculously high if we think there's Riochs and Allardyces sitting around waiting for the call. I'm still awaiting names that aren't Alex Neil or Gareth bloody AInsworth.

[Worthy4England]

When there was a chunk of lead for "out," yesterday, my feeling was it sort of doesn't matter, which ever way you look at it there's still a significant "out" proportion, it's not one or two not reets, I think the same today, even though the count has changed on here. Interesting on WW that with nearly 180 votes, they're still 54%-46% out. So it's fairly split, but that's still a significant section that want him gone and I suspect will make their feelings known should he be here and a slow start ensue next season. It could become untenable fairly quickly, because giving him the bird, will always likely be louder than sitting there in quiet admiration.

[BWFC_Insane]

I suspect that these days, if we tried to hire a manager whose experience in this country amounted to a title win two divisions below our station and a humiliatingly hubristic failed play-off attempt a division below us three years previously, fans would be seriously underwhelmed.

Unless of course he wore the shirt, in which case #passion.

As it turned out, Sam was a superb managerial appointment. But his managerial CV was underwhelming – in fact, right now Evatt is more proven as a manager than Allardyce was when we hired him.

It could very well be - almost certainly will - that Evatt forever remains unfit to lace Sam's shoes. All I'm saying is that - while (one more time) Evatt MUST improve if he stays, and this season is a disappointment - we are setting expectations ridiculously high if we think there's Riochs and Allardyces sitting around waiting for the call. I'm still awaiting names that aren't Alex Neil or Gareth bloody AInsworth.

Yes on Allardyce as I’m sure many fans scratched their heads at his appointment. Though of course if you knew at the time what he had done to learn about management and the effort he had put in to that we’d probably all have got it.

I agree that ultimately the right appointment is not always the ‘best record’. Dont think Rioch’s record away from Bolton was anything to shout about in general - few clubs he was at would remember him fondly he was right man at right time.

So yes there is no guarantee that a new manager does the business it would need a careful appointment.

I’m just completely convinced as I was with previous managers that we won’t move forward with them. I’ve been that way for a while and sort of could see what you was coming this season. But it will just be painful seeing us waste another year down here imho. And if the case is that even the right new man wouldn’t get us up it still would set us a further year back if we wait.

[Worthy4England]

I suspect that these days, if we tried to hire a manager whose experience in this country amounted to a title win two divisions below our station and a humiliatingly hubristic failed play-off attempt a division below us three years previously, fans would be seriously underwhelmed.

Unless of course he wore the shirt, in which case #passion.

As it turned out, Sam was a superb managerial appointment. But his managerial CV was underwhelming – in fact, right now Evatt is more proven as a manager than Allardyce was when we hired him.

It could very well be - almost certainly will - that Evatt forever remains unfit to lace Sam's shoes. All I'm saying is that - while (one more time) Evatt MUST improve if he stays, and this season is a disappointment - we are setting expectations ridiculously high if we think there's Riochs and Allardyces sitting around waiting for the call. I'm still awaiting names that aren't Alex Neil or Gareth bloody AInsworth.

Yes on Allardyce as I’m sure many fans scratched their heads at his appointment. Though of course if you knew at the time what he had done to learn about management and the effort he had put in to that we’d probably all have got it.

I agree that ultimately the right appointment is not always the ‘best record’. Dont think Rioch’s record away from Bolton was anything to shout about in general - few clubs he was at would remember him fondly he was right man at right time.

So yes there is no guarantee that a new manager does the business it would need a careful appointment.

I’m just completely convinced as I was with previous managers that we won’t move forward with them. I’ve been that way for a while and sort of could see what you was coming this season. But it will just be painful seeing us waste another year down here imho. And if the case is that even the right new man wouldn’t get us up it still would set us a further year back if we wait.

The usual nonsense whenever someone says "replace the manager." Who, I ask you, who will be better?

I dunno, it's not my day job, I just know three managers who aren't Allardyce or Rioch have managed to get their team out of L1 this year, as three did last. I wouldn't necessarily have picked Mousinho or Buckingham, but maybe Paul Warne, this time last year.

I find it really funny that our eternal optimists are optimistic about everything except the possibility that a football club could possibly find a better manager.

[HMX]

If Evatt is staying – and I think he probably is – I want to see a call to arms soon. We've thrown away a massive opportunity and all we're left with, at the moment, is a 'baffled' Evatt and a hiding captain. Ain't a good look. Get building for the summer so we don't get left behind.

[HMX]

I suspect that these days, if we tried to hire a manager whose experience in this country amounted to a title win two divisions below our station and a humiliatingly hubristic failed play-off attempt a division below us three years previously, fans would be seriously underwhelmed.

Unless of course he wore the shirt, in which case #passion.

As it turned out, Sam was a superb managerial appointment. But his managerial CV was underwhelming – in fact, right now Evatt is more proven as a manager than Allardyce was when we hired him.

It could very well be - almost certainly will - that Evatt forever remains unfit to lace Sam's shoes. All I'm saying is that - while (one more time) Evatt MUST improve if he stays, and this season is a disappointment - we are setting expectations ridiculously high if we think there's Riochs and Allardyces sitting around waiting for the call. I'm still awaiting names that aren't Alex Neil or Gareth bloody AInsworth.

Yes on Allardyce as I’m sure many fans scratched their heads at his appointment. Though of course if you knew at the time what he had done to learn about management and the effort he had put in to that we’d probably all have got it.

I agree that ultimately the right appointment is not always the ‘best record’. Dont think Rioch’s record away from Bolton was anything to shout about in general - few clubs he was at would remember him fondly he was right man at right time.

So yes there is no guarantee that a new manager does the business it would need a careful appointment.

I’m just completely convinced as I was with previous managers that we won’t move forward with them. I’ve been that way for a while and sort of could see what you was coming this season. But it will just be painful seeing us waste another year down here imho. And if the case is that even the right new man wouldn’t get us up it still would set us a further year back if we wait.

The usual nonsense whenever someone says "replace the manager." Who, I ask you, who will be better?

I dunno, it's not my day job, I just know three managers who aren't Allardyce or Rioch have managed to get their team out of L1 this year, as three did last. I wouldn't necessarily have picked Mousinho or Buckingham, but maybe Paul Warne, this time last year.

I find it really funny that our eternal optimists are optimistic about everything except the possibility that a football club could possibly find a better manager.

Indeed. Just because one can't name a 'better' replacement doesn't mean they aren't out there. And people – plus the board – who know much more than I do, will be able to find names. No guarantees for results, but there aren't if the manager stays either. Each season prompts a new roll of the die.

[BWFC_Insane]

I suspect that these days, if we tried to hire a manager whose experience in this country amounted to a title win two divisions below our station and a humiliatingly hubristic failed play-off attempt a division below us three years previously, fans would be seriously underwhelmed.

Unless of course he wore the shirt, in which case #passion.

As it turned out, Sam was a superb managerial appointment. But his managerial CV was underwhelming – in fact, right now Evatt is more proven as a manager than Allardyce was when we hired him.

It could very well be - almost certainly will - that Evatt forever remains unfit to lace Sam's shoes. All I'm saying is that - while (one more time) Evatt MUST improve if he stays, and this season is a disappointment - we are setting expectations ridiculously high if we think there's Riochs and Allardyces sitting around waiting for the call. I'm still awaiting names that aren't Alex Neil or Gareth bloody AInsworth.

Yes on Allardyce as I’m sure many fans scratched their heads at his appointment. Though of course if you knew at the time what he had done to learn about management and the effort he had put in to that we’d probably all have got it.

I agree that ultimately the right appointment is not always the ‘best record’. Dont think Rioch’s record away from Bolton was anything to shout about in general - few clubs he was at would remember him fondly he was right man at right time.

So yes there is no guarantee that a new manager does the business it would need a careful appointment.

I’m just completely convinced as I was with previous managers that we won’t move forward with them. I’ve been that way for a while and sort of could see what you was coming this season. But it will just be painful seeing us waste another year down here imho. And if the case is that even the right new man wouldn’t get us up it still would set us a further year back if we wait.

The usual nonsense whenever someone says "replace the manager." Who, I ask you, who will be better?

I dunno, it's not my day job, I just know three managers who aren't Allardyce or Rioch have managed to get their team out of L1 this year, as three did last. I wouldn't necessarily have picked Mousinho or Buckingham, but maybe Paul Warne, this time last year.

I find it really funny that our eternal optimists are optimistic about everything except the possibility that a football club could possibly find a better manager.

Indeed. Just because one can't name a 'better' replacement doesn't mean they aren't out there. And people – plus the board – who know much more than I do, will be able to find names. No guarantees for results, but there aren't if the manager stays either. Each season prompts a new roll of the die.

A better replacement is in the eye of the beholder. I think a lot of the names are ‘better’ for what we need and it’s not close.

But what we can’t tell from the outside is the hunger someone has. You need to meet face to face to determine that. A disinterested appointment is no good.

[Mar]

If Evatt is staying – and I think he probably is – I want to see a call to arms soon. We've thrown away a massive opportunity and all we're left with, at the moment, is a 'baffled' Evatt and a hiding captain. Ain't a good look. Get building for the summer so we don't get left behind.

I suspect we'll have to give it a couple of weeks before we see anything coming out of the Bolton camp.

The fact we've not heard a peep suggests they care very little about dealing with the backlash that fans have brought.

Had it been that performance and result in the trophy final with games left to play in the season they'd be really apologetic and media based.

Club could do with learning a few lessons here as the response from all parties has been incredibly poor.

Idve been happy with Shazza coming out and saying its not good enough.

To perform that badly and then have a bad media shadow afterwards is so poor. Its very surprising the level of quiet around the club, we've been miles better in previous seasons at addressing the poor media presence so to see it get this bad after that defeat just rankles.

[BWFC_Insane]

If Evatt is staying – and I think he probably is – I want to see a call to arms soon. We've thrown away a massive opportunity and all we're left with, at the moment, is a 'baffled' Evatt and a hiding captain. Ain't a good look. Get building for the summer so we don't get left behind.

I suspect we'll have to give it a couple of weeks before we see anything coming out of the Bolton camp.

The fact we've not heard a peep suggests they care very little about dealing with the backlash that fans have brought.

Had it been that performance and result in the trophy final with games left to play in the season they'd be really apologetic and media based.

Club could do with learning a few lessons here as the response from all parties has been incredibly poor.

Idve been happy with Shazza coming out and saying its not good enough.

To perform that badly and then have a bad media shadow afterwards is so poor. Its very surprising the level of quiet around the club, we've been miles better in previous seasons at addressing the poor media presence so to see it get this bad after that defeat just rankles.

Probably all gone on holiday. Frankly I’m not interested in mealy mouthed apologies. Heard it all before. Just do the right thing and go.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I suspect we'll have to give it a couple of weeks before we see anything coming out of the Bolton camp.

The fact we've not heard a peep suggests they care very little about dealing with the backlash that fans have brought.

Had it been that performance and result in the trophy final with games left to play in the season they'd be really apologetic and media based.

Club could do with learning a few lessons here as the response from all parties has been incredibly poor.

Idve been happy with Shazza coming out and saying its not good enough.

To perform that badly and then have a bad media shadow afterwards is so poor. Its very surprising the level of quiet around the club, we've been miles better in previous seasons at addressing the poor media presence so to see it get this bad after that defeat just rankles.

I suspect it is a case of Evatt in mard arse mode and Shazza wants him to take a couple of days to think over what he wants to do. If he wants to continue what his plans are to sort out where we are.

We've had some standard sorry and don't know what happened posts from players and to be honest they feel empty. I'm not sure hearing more of it from Shazza and co will help anything. Better to sort out who is committed behind the scenes, make a positive plan and then share it with us lot. A plan to do better along with the sorry stuff will feel better than shoulder shrugs of apologies.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

LOL @ "the usual nonsense". Aye, there's certainly loads of that about.

"WHAT DO WE WANT?"
"SOMEONE NEW!"
"WHO SHALL WE HIRE?"
"DUNNO!"




"I think you'll find it's not my role to comment on the details of the thing I've held forth about at length. In summary, Something Must Be Done, but don't ask me precisely what."

Of course, there is a manager out there who can restore us to greatness. There are also plenty who won't. That's the risk when you roll the dice. There's also risk when you don't.

I see the qualification criteria are sliding around now. If only footballers could shift goalposts as nimbly.

If I may summarise. "What we need is a managerial appointment that works and will make sense in hindsight. My unprovable green-grass alternative reality would definitely be better." Duh.

Andranik for manager!

[BWFC_Insane]

LOL @ "the usual nonsense". Aye, there's certainly loads of that about.

"WHAT DO WE WANT?"
"SOMEONE NEW!"
"WHO SHALL WE HIRE?"
"DUNNO!"




"I think you'll find it's not my role to comment on the details of the thing I've held forth about at length. In summary, Something Must Be Done, but don't ask me precisely what."

Of course, there is a manager out there who can restore us to greatness. There are also plenty who won't. That's the risk when you roll the dice. There's also risk when you don't.

I see the qualification criteria are sliding around now. If only footballers could shift goalposts as nimbly.

If I may summarise. "What we need is a managerial appointment that works and will make sense in hindsight. My unprovable green-grass alternative reality would definitely be better." Duh.

Andranik for manager!

People have named names - managers out of work with a track record in this league.

What more do you want someone to do?

[Bertie Wooster]

Yes it's now down to fans to find out who's available, who wants it and then interview them before suggesting alternatives.

I have noticed that not many have responded to my question about those voting stay and whether this stay vote is based on Evatt accepting his failures, changing his ideology & philosophy or just more of the same.

I suspect that most of the stay voters are of the opinion of Evatt doing plan A better, basically let's waste yet another season in League 1

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Yes it's now down to fans to find out who's available, who wants it and then interview them before suggesting alternatives.

I have noticed that not many have responded to my question about those voting stay and whether this stay vote is based on Evatt accepting his failures, changing his ideology & philosophy or just more of the same.

I suspect that most of the stay voters are of the opinion of Evatt doing plan A better, basically let's waste yet another season in League 1

Not sure anyone, anywhere, ever has said that Evatt should carry on as he is. I've repeatedly said he needs to change. I can't speak for all stay-voters, but I'm confident they all think the same to a greater or lesser extent.

There's a serious conversation to be had, and it'd be lovely if it started rather than fatuous exaggeration.

[BWFC_Insane]

Another option - see if we can tempt Cook out of Chesterfield and get Bolton old boy Richardson back as his assistant.

Again experience there if getting out of this league.

[Worthy4England]

LOL @ "the usual nonsense". Aye, there's certainly loads of that about.

"WHAT DO WE WANT?"
"SOMEONE NEW!"
"WHO SHALL WE HIRE?"
"DUNNO!"




"I think you'll find it's not my role to comment on the details of the thing I've held forth about at length. In summary, Something Must Be Done, but don't ask me precisely what."

Of course, there is a manager out there who can restore us to greatness. There are also plenty who won't. That's the risk when you roll the dice. There's also risk when you don't.

I see the qualification criteria are sliding around now. If only footballers could shift goalposts as nimbly.

If I may summarise. "What we need is a managerial appointment that works and will make sense in hindsight. My unprovable green-grass alternative reality would definitely be better." Duh.

Andranik for manager!

"Of course there's a manager who can restore us to greatness"
"Great! Where did our current one finish?"
"7th, Joint 5th and 4th."
"Right, go and find the one that'll restore us to greatness, then please"

There ain't much point in supporters naming a manager. Coz those who don't want change will just post all their reasons not to - I mean it's a forum so entirely natural and expected, but naming a manager on a forum doesn't actually change owt.