Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

"How many times have we said...?" - after just about every loss, in some cases...

As for the faith in the potential of Evatt to change - probably the fact he's fundamentally changed his formation three times in five seasons (including at Barrow) and also carried out remedial work on numerous other occasions (eg inverting the triangle last spring). As I say, he's altered his tactics several times for several different types of striker - Doyle, Dapo, Baka, Dion, Adeboyejo - these are all very different strikers who have all (at times!) excelled in an Evatt system - or rather systems.

I completely understand why some people don't like him (and why some want a change) but the idea that he's unable to change is, I think, unfair.

[Prufrock]

Yes Allardyce lost three semi finals. Next season he fixed it though and with a far less prestigious squad. And I mean those three semis were off the back of his first half season.

Evatt has build this squad up to his exact need. And I’m not having an Ainsworth or a Parky or any experienced manager who is worth their salt would have let Saturday happen. Sure they might have lost the game but not so appallingly and without fight.

This idea that Evatt needs to learn - I get it. But it’s not about learning it’s about him having the face to rip up his entire mantra here and instead build a team with the physicality and resilience and mental strength to get out of league one. Abandoning the idea that centre halves have got to be able to play. Abandoning the idea we have to dominate possession on the half way line.

All that needs to change if we want a chance. He might learn that but I just don’t think he’s humble enough to do so here in a summer. Not close.

It’s like saying ‘Coyle has to learn’ after Wembley defeat to Stoke and the fallout. He did. But was he ever going to? Not a chance.

Ultimately it comes down to I don’t believe a few tweaks will suffice. A new manager MIGHT find ways of using some of these players in a more robust system and style that is more repeatable over the season. And that might mean we need less recruitment. I just am unconvinced Evatt can or will do so.

You keep saying that but Mousinho did it. Schumacher did it. We have physically. Santos is a monster, Toal a magnet. Thomo Dempsey and JDC can run for days. Charles is a horror to play against.

What we haven't done is found a way to use that reliably. Portsmouth played. But also when Derby went there in the pouring rain they found a way to still play and dig out a point.

I absolutely don't want an Ainsworth coming in, signing Garath McLeary and the lads in the upper tier having the best view. That's partly because I don't want to watch it. But it's also not the best way to be successful in this league or the one above.

If Evatt goes, it needs to be someone else who can get the most out of a team designed to play out from the back, to dominate the ball. Oxford did that too. Ruben Rodrigues isn't getting in a Paul Warne team.

I don't want style over substance, I want both

[BWFC_Insane]

Yes Allardyce lost three semi finals. Next season he fixed it though and with a far less prestigious squad. And I mean those three semis were off the back of his first half season.

Evatt has build this squad up to his exact need. And I’m not having an Ainsworth or a Parky or any experienced manager who is worth their salt would have let Saturday happen. Sure they might have lost the game but not so appallingly and without fight.

This idea that Evatt needs to learn - I get it. But it’s not about learning it’s about him having the face to rip up his entire mantra here and instead build a team with the physicality and resilience and mental strength to get out of league one. Abandoning the idea that centre halves have got to be able to play. Abandoning the idea we have to dominate possession on the half way line.

All that needs to change if we want a chance. He might learn that but I just don’t think he’s humble enough to do so here in a summer. Not close.

It’s like saying ‘Coyle has to learn’ after Wembley defeat to Stoke and the fallout. He did. But was he ever going to? Not a chance.

Ultimately it comes down to I don’t believe a few tweaks will suffice. A new manager MIGHT find ways of using some of these players in a more robust system and style that is more repeatable over the season. And that might mean we need less recruitment. I just am unconvinced Evatt can or will do so.

You keep saying that but Mousinho did it. Schumacher did it. We have physically. Santos is a monster, Toal a magnet. Thomo Dempsey and JDC can run for days. Charles is a horror to play against.

What we haven't done is found a way to use that reliably. Portsmouth played. But also when Derby went there in the pouring rain they found a way to still play and dig out a point.

I absolutely don't want an Ainsworth coming in, signing Garath McLeary and the lads in the upper tier having the best view. That's partly because I don't want to watch it. But it's also not the best way to be successful in this league or the one above.

If Evatt goes, it needs to be someone else who can get the most out of a team designed to play out from the back, to dominate the ball. Oxford did that too. Ruben Rodrigues isn't getting in a Paul Warne team.

I don't want style over substance, I want both

Absolutely respect all that. And it’s hard to express it accurately on here. Santos is indeed a physical monster and when he’s in that mode is very good. The problem is he’s rarely in that mode and when he’s not is a liability. And certainly doesn’t dominate strikers when he’s not on it.

Toal I think is a good defender but I don’t like him in a three. At all. I think we’re asking him to do stuff he isn’t good at.

I’m not asking us by the way to go direct or long ball. That’s simply not suiting us at all and I’d have Charles up top in a 4231 so clearly wouldn’t be my plan. But I think there are things we need to stop. And I simply do not think we will get anywhere with this 352 high line wing backs way up the pitch unless we get a far better 6, much better wing backs and probably a better 8 too. And I think the quality needed is beyond what we’d afford.

I do think we could do much more if we had wide players who cut inside but also sometimes went outside, full backs who delivered balls from a variety of angles into the box and played a higher tempo game. Fundamentally in a nutshell Evatt says transitional football doesn’t suit us but my absolute view is that if you want to get out of this league you have to be able to do that. And at times offer a ‘low block’ to use modern football lingo. You need all those things in your armoury.

The way Oxford played on Saturday I think we had to grind it out. Find ways to get the ball forwards, get someone to run at them from out wide as an outlet pin them back and try and win set pieces or create some half chances. It was going to be tight but what we did played right into their hands. It was the sort of game we had to absolutely not give them a sniff at scoring keep it tight and see if our extra quality would find a way through. Whatever the situation under pressure if your only game is into a midfield pivot or two 8’s and that’s all you’ve got a decent organised team can swamp you and pick you off. We’ve seen that plenty this season not just Saturday. Tactically it’s not different much to the Wigan home game.

[Worthy4England]

If Evatt goes, it needs to be someone else who can get the most out of a team designed to play out from the back, to dominate the ball. Oxford did that too. Ruben Rodrigues isn't getting in a Paul Warne team.

I'm happy with play out from the back, as long as it has some purpose and direction. If it's just stroking it round the back 3/4, then it can do one. Every bit as boring as "hoof," which I'm not advocating for either. Dominate the ball - if we've dominated the ball this season, then the 51 league goals we've managed to leak from us having "most of the ball", is even worse than it first appears...

[GhostoftheBok]

Absolutely respect all that. And it’s hard to express it accurately on here. Santos is indeed a physical monster and when he’s in that mode is very good. The problem is he’s rarely in that mode and when he’s not is a liability. And certainly doesn’t dominate strikers when he’s not on it.

Yes. However, the fact he's been playing with painkilling injections and missed football when that injury got too much might account for his poor form at a key time.

If he's been playing injured then do we bin him off? First half of the season he was exceptional and we were flying.

In theory and without it being anything other than genuine interest in your opinion, do you think a back three of Johnston, Santos and Toal could be part of a league winning side?

[TANGODANCER]

If we had done an "Oxford", we'd now be promoted. Are we incapable of parking the bus and waiting for our chances to strike, because effectively, that's all they did and we gave them more green than a golf course to do it in. The first goal should never have happened and the second a pure accident. Twist it how you will, they bullied us off the ball with no reply from us. Maghoma and Ogbeta should have been held back in favour of a couple of pure defenders and hit them with fresh legs second half. Hind sight is a wonderful thing, but its opposite is fore-sight.

[officer_dibble]

I was stay on Saturday night and now I’m go…
I think it’s gonna get toxic when we lose 3 on the bounce to Wigan Blackpool and Stockport next season - I’d rather we had a new manager now than October.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Been thinking and researching.

I totally agree that the “121 goals” or whatever it was - while lovely - can be a misnomer. I’ve long separated league games from cup games (often vs poor teams or with much altered line-ups). Even so, we still scored the second most in the league.

But… I’m also very much in agreement with the notion that there’s no point winning one game 5-0 then losing 2-0; better to win both 1-0. So I had a look as to how well spread our goals were.

Truth is, not bad. We only failed to score in 7 games – one more than Derby, but one fewer than Pompey, who I can’t help but noticed got promoted.

What I also notice is that Pompey won more games (15) by a single goal than any other team. Derby, Exeter, Stevenage and Wigan won 13 that way, we ‘only’ won 11. Possibly that’s because we went on to win by more, but those ‘grinders’ are vital. As Pompey know.

The big difference between us and the autos is goals conceded - 1.11 per game for us, 0.89 Pompey, 0.8 Derby. Derby got 22 clean sheets, Pompey 19, us 17. If a clean sheet gets you a draw, that's Pompey 2pts better off than us, Derby 5pts. If it gets you a win, it's Pompey 6pts, Derby 15pts.

So yeah. It's the defence that needs sorting. Which is not a massive revelation, but I think it's worth bearing in mind.

[BWFC_Insane]

Absolutely respect all that. And it’s hard to express it accurately on here. Santos is indeed a physical monster and when he’s in that mode is very good. The problem is he’s rarely in that mode and when he’s not is a liability. And certainly doesn’t dominate strikers when he’s not on it.

Yes. However, the fact he's been playing with painkilling injections and missed football when that injury got too much might account for his poor form at a key time.

If he's been playing injured then do we bin him off? First half of the season he was exceptional and we were flying.

In theory and without it being anything other than genuine interest in your opinion, do you think a back three of Johnston, Santos and Toal could be part of a league winning side?

I don’t want a back three.

I want us as far away from the idea (it’s a bad idea) that santos is our Beckenbauer stepping out on the ball as possible.

I don’t think Santos is a player I’d want. Even if we use the injury excuse he’s far too inconsistent. We saw this first half of the season too and every season he’s played. You can’t get away with every few games being off it. He’s not intense enough, not demanding enough of himself and I think his ‘off days’ spread through the team.

I don’t rate him primarily because he’s one of those with the physical ability but lacks the application. He’s 29 isn’t he? I just think we need someone who is there every week who picks up their man reads the game, doesn’t switch off, heads and kicks it and keeps it simple. Alongside Toal. Two defenders being asked to defend not be sweepers.

But that’s my view I’m fairly certain yours is totally different.

Above all else if santos does stay Evatt or whoever needs to stop blowing smoke up his backside and start telling him in no uncertain words how it is. And absolutely he cannot under any circumstances be captain.

[Jeux sans frontiéres]

Good insight.

Which begs the question, is defence the symptom or the cause?

Would the back three be more comfortable with someone more robust than Sheehan in front of it? Or someone better at covering the crosses/runs from the wing than JDC and Williams.

I think.the answer to both has to be 'yes'.

Santos and Toal didn't just become shit because of one bad result and perhaps a bad performance at home to Barnsley.

And they didn't suddenly forget how to distribute

There just wasn't a great infrastructure around them. And if you're playing against an injury (as Santos clearly was), then you'll ship goals, which puts you in prime spot to lose games.

But this is a thread about the manager, not the players.

For me he stays all day.

Yes the result was shit. And there were a couple of other corkers in the season. But if we had won, even in a closely fought game, no chance on earth anyone is questioning Evatt. One result doesn't define a career for me.

[GhostoftheBok]

But that’s my view I’m fairly certain yours is totally different.

Yes, but like I say I was asking for yours and not looking to pick at it.

[BWFC_Insane]

But that’s my view I’m fairly certain yours is totally different.

Yes, but like I say I was asking for yours and not looking to pick at it.

And I will add I think a better manager a more savvy manager might even find a way to get santos to be more consistent. I just don’t think Evatt and his ‘he’s superb on his day but he has his bad days but that’s ok’ statement will.

If you take the captaincy away simplify his game and find a genuine reader of the game (and communicator) to go alongside him? I dunno. I suspect Parky would turn him into the sort of defender we need.

[Worthy4England]

I doubt anyone is using one result to define Evatt's career JSF....if they were, then I doubt the vote would be in it's current state, because if all you knew was that one game, he's probably never managing again...

[GhostoftheBok]

Parky's promotion season we conceded 36 goals. Last season we conceded 36 goals.

We've been told both that the manager can't coach defending like Parky can and the defenders aren't as good as Parky's defenders were.

How does that work?

[BWFC_Insane]

Sarcevic has had his say on his departure. These failings out happen but if what he says is true….

[GhostoftheBok]

Sarcevic has had his say on his departure. These failings out happen but if what he says is true….

He also said he didn't dance around and sing about Bolton, but he's on camera doing it.

Why would anyone believe a word of the rest of it?

[officer_dibble]

Aye, Sarcevic is a fecking dickhead.

[Bertie Wooster]

Kevin Nolan leaving West Ham.

[GhostoftheBok]

Kevin Nolan leaving West Ham.

Not sure he's got the legs anymore.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Sarcevic has had his say on his departure. These failings out happen but if what he says is true….

He also said he didn't dance around and sing about Bolton, but he's on camera doing it.

Why would anyone believe a word of the rest of it?

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... vatt-bust/

Maybe Sharon should ignore Ian at the coffee machine and see if he walks out.

I mean it doesn’t sound great but good lord, it’s hardly Bruce Rioch and Steve Fulton…