Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

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Should Ian Evatt stay as Bolton manager?

Stay
23
61%
Go
15
39%
 
Total votes: 38

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:01 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 5:46 pm
Yeah, as it stands we need 4 strikers per game (typically 2 for 20 minutes). So a long term and a Saturday sickie and we're stuffed with 4.
I'm prepared to wait and see what the squad as a whole looks like, rather than saying "We have to get exactly this sort of player"; but it does seem to be hard to look past.

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:48 pm

I'm not overly concerned that Nlundulu and Adebojeyo won't be fit. I'm at least somewhat concerned that Nlundulu won't be good enough.

CMG we may as well forget about for now, in terms of picking the 11/18 (sadly not in terms of wages). Cue "like a new signing" quotes around Bonfire Night.

Charles is a worry. His game relies on both a lot of short sharp sprints - more often defensive (pressing to set our tone) than attacking (pouncing on mistakes) - and an extraordinary amount of stamina for a striker. If he misses pre-season he won't have mucn in the tank and he may be prey to breakdowns.

That leaves us (albeit temporarily) with just Vic and Collins. Not a bad strike pair, some good numbers last season and you can imagine them dovetailing, but beyond that there's just the hope that Nlundulu isn't a dud and... Carty, well I think we're pushing it to hope he's a regular (sub) striker for a second-tier side.

As Ghost says, it may be a loanee - but as BWFCi always notes, they ain't cheap, and for every successful Sturridge there's a Gael Kakuta or a Ryo Miyaichi. Even so, I will be worried if there isn't a fresh face up top at season's start, especially given the potential for civil war among the fans if we don't start with a slew of Ws and an absence of Ls.

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by Mar » Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:13 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:48 pm
I'm not overly concerned that Nlundulu and Adebojeyo won't be fit. I'm at least somewhat concerned that Nlundulu won't be good enough.

CMG we may as well forget about for now, in terms of picking the 11/18 (sadly not in terms of wages). Cue "like a new signing" quotes around Bonfire Night.

Charles is a worry. His game relies on both a lot of short sharp sprints - more often defensive (pressing to set our tone) than attacking (pouncing on mistakes) - and an extraordinary amount of stamina for a striker. If he misses pre-season he won't have mucn in the tank and he may be prey to breakdowns.

That leaves us (albeit temporarily) with just Vic and Collins. Not a bad strike pair, some good numbers last season and you can imagine them dovetailing, but beyond that there's just the hope that Nlundulu isn't a dud and... Carty, well I think we're pushing it to hope he's a regular (sub) striker for a second-tier side.

As Ghost says, it may be a loanee - but as BWFCi always notes, they ain't cheap, and for every successful Sturridge there's a Gael Kakuta or a Ryo Miyaichi. Even so, I will be worried if there isn't a fresh face up top at season's start, especially given the potential for civil war among the fans if we don't start with a slew of Ws and an absence of Ls.
Some interesting points there. A new striker might paper over some cracks and give us hope. It's easier to find that hope in a pacey player but I suspect we'd be after a target man which may end up being labelled a lump which would further cause gripes

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:28 am

Mar wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:13 am


Some interesting points there. A new striker might paper over some cracks and give us hope. It's easier to find that hope in a pacey player but I suspect we'd be after a target man which may end up being labelled a lump which would further cause gripes
Kevin Davies was labelled a lump by some. Oh for such a lump right now. :oyea:


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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by Mar » Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:55 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:28 am
Mar wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:13 am


Some interesting points there. A new striker might paper over some cracks and give us hope. It's easier to find that hope in a pacey player but I suspect we'd be after a target man which may end up being labelled a lump which would further cause gripes
Kevin Davies was labelled a lump by some. Oh for such a lump right now. :oyea:


ae:) ae:)
Maybe the term should be ineffective then.

I think we're definitely lacking a decent target man who can bring the others into play. Whenever we go long it seems ineffective unless we're running in behind.

That should be something the club can change. Jerome and JDB were big targets but neither really delivered on being that consistent out ball.

You're right. What a difference having an SKD type would do to our options.

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by Hoboh » Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:02 pm

Mar wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:55 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:28 am
Mar wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:13 am


Some interesting points there. A new striker might paper over some cracks and give us hope. It's easier to find that hope in a pacey player but I suspect we'd be after a target man which may end up being labelled a lump which would further cause gripes
Kevin Davies was labelled a lump by some. Oh for such a lump right now. :oyea:


ae:) ae:)
Maybe the term should be ineffective then.

I think we're definitely lacking a decent target man who can bring the others into play. Whenever we go long it seems ineffective unless we're running in behind.

That should be something the club can change. Jerome and JDB were big targets but neither really delivered on being that consistent out ball.

You're right. What a difference having an SKD type would do to our options.
You'd need people who could actually find him first.

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:34 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:02 pm


Kevin Davies was labelled a lump by some. Oh for such a lump right now. :oyea:


ae:) ae:)

You're right. What a difference having an SKD type would do to our options.
[/quote]

You'd need people who could actually find him first.
[/quote]

Jussi never had that much trouble.
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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:38 pm

SKD would in an Evatt side spend the whole time watching the ball go sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards, stand on the ball, look, back, side, back side…

He’s probably get so bored you could put a little seat for him on the halfway line with a good book to read.

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by boltonboris » Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:50 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:38 pm
SKD would in an Evatt side spend the whole time watching the ball go sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards, stand on the ball, look, back, side, back side…

He’s probably get so bored you could put a little seat for him on the halfway line with a good book to read.
To be fair, when Davies played for us, he wouldn’t have gotten a kick at any other premier league side. He was perfect for us at that time
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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by irie Cee Bee » Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:28 pm

Davies would not make this team, as good as he was, based on how we play and what we want our strikers to do currently. Charles, Ade, Collins, Dan would all be ahead of him in his prime if he was on the roster today. How many of us disagree?

Evatt would have to change his system to bring him in.

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:51 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:50 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:38 pm
SKD would in an Evatt side spend the whole time watching the ball go sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards, stand on the ball, look, back, side, back side…

He’s probably get so bored you could put a little seat for him on the halfway line with a good book to read.
To be fair, when Davies played for us, he wouldn’t have gotten a kick at any other premier league side. He was perfect for us at that time
He was signed by Southampton as an expensive ‘tricky winger’. Haha. He’d played up front a few times but it was Allardyce who spotted him and his ability to be a ‘target man’.

I think that was another underrated Allardyce thing. He spotted stuff that others missed. He played a load ‘out of position’ yet ended up converting them.

We played a few (maybe more) top flight games with Henrik Pedersen at left back. Somehow he found ways to make it work.

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by boltonboris » Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:56 pm

And made Ricardo Gardner one of the best out and out left backs on the planet for a while, too
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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by boltonboris » Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:00 pm

Also, I don't necessarily think he had an 'eye' to spot things... I think it was a case of him being revolutionary with statistics / data points etc.

He knew what the positions needed and he was able to use data and analysis to know which player could do what and to what extent.

People call him a dinosaur and a one-trick pony etc, but for a while, he completely changed how English football was done in the boardroom and at the training ground. .
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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jun 14, 2024 4:15 pm

boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:00 pm
Also, I don't necessarily think he had an 'eye' to spot things... I think it was a case of him being revolutionary with statistics / data points etc.

He knew what the positions needed and he was able to use data and analysis to know which player could do what and to what extent.

People call him a dinosaur and a one-trick pony etc, but for a while, he completely changed how English football was done in the boardroom and at the training ground. .
True there. Not an eye but an ability to use information to understand how players could be utilised.

Gardner the most obvious example. Nobody had him at left back but he had an amazing career there and I think it was his best position. Of course it coincided with the pacy attacking full back role entering the English game!

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:52 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 4:15 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:00 pm
Also, I don't necessarily think he had an 'eye' to spot things... I think it was a case of him being revolutionary with statistics / data points etc.

He knew what the positions needed and he was able to use data and analysis to know which player could do what and to what extent.

People call him a dinosaur and a one-trick pony etc, but for a while, he completely changed how English football was done in the boardroom and at the training ground. .
True there. Not an eye but an ability to use information to understand how players could be utilised.

Gardner the most obvious example. Nobody had him at left back but he had an amazing career there and I think it was his best position. Of course it coincided with the pacy attacking full back role entering the English game!
I'm thinking the two things together reinforce the "opinion?"

I think this, and when I look at the data, I still think this...

Unfortunately we have too many people who just look at the data and think the answer is "x" - see the data. A lot of it is imprecise, so you gotta start with a point of view.

Data is supportive (or not) but not determinative. We have way too many Champ Mans...

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:25 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:52 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 4:15 pm
boltonboris wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:00 pm
Also, I don't necessarily think he had an 'eye' to spot things... I think it was a case of him being revolutionary with statistics / data points etc.

He knew what the positions needed and he was able to use data and analysis to know which player could do what and to what extent.

People call him a dinosaur and a one-trick pony etc, but for a while, he completely changed how English football was done in the boardroom and at the training ground. .
True there. Not an eye but an ability to use information to understand how players could be utilised.

Gardner the most obvious example. Nobody had him at left back but he had an amazing career there and I think it was his best position. Of course it coincided with the pacy attacking full back role entering the English game!
I'm thinking the two things together reinforce the "opinion?"

I think this, and when I look at the data, I still think this...

Unfortunately we have too many people who just look at the data and think the answer is "x" - see the data. A lot of it is imprecise, so you gotta start with a point of view.

Data is supportive (or not) but not determinative. We have way too many Champ Mans...
True again. Data tests a model it doesn’t tell you what the model is or should be!

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:27 pm

Some interesting numbers in BEN's "annual poll"...think it's probably a bit more reflective of feeling round the fanbase just because of sample size. Football management performance rated 6.7/10 (vs 8.7 last year). If ~40% of the votes were above 8 and he's at 6.7 there must be a pretty decent chunk of low numbers...

44% don't think we're certain of top 6 - which I think might be down to the question...

Most folks think he's got decent backing...

Style of play was also interesting with more people being positive about it (but still less than half) and ~30% being negative towards it...

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:15 am

BN put a fairly positive spin on it in their article didn’t they? But I think that chunk of supporters unhappy is big enough to be loud enough at the signs of problems next season. I wouldn’t put a tenner on Ian finishing the season in charge. I sort of hope we get a tough run of games at the start - show us what you have got and if it’s not going to work we can change then, rather than when it’s too late! Assuming we don’t storm the league from the off 😁

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:04 am

Interesting:

"Wanderers are preparing to shake-up Ian Evatt’s backroom team in their bid for success in League One next season. The Bolton News understands there will be a number of changes behind the scenes in pre-season, including the appointment of a new member of first team coaching staff."

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... ub-review/

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Re: Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Jun 25, 2024 9:08 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:27 pm
Some interesting numbers in BEN's "annual poll"...think it's probably a bit more reflective of feeling round the fanbase just because of sample size. Football management performance rated 6.7/10 (vs 8.7 last year). If ~40% of the votes were above 8 and he's at 6.7 there must be a pretty decent chunk of low numbers...

44% don't think we're certain of top 6 - which I think might be down to the question...

Most folks think he's got decent backing...

Style of play was also interesting with more people being positive about it (but still less than half) and ~30% being negative towards it...
Given the way people tend to score such scales if a manager isn’t hitting 7 as an average then that’s bad news.

Be interesting to see what the 90% percentile average looks like.
Last edited by BWFC_Insane on Tue Jun 25, 2024 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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