Taking Stock (port) ....A trip away to the neighbours. Sat Nov 9th, 3-0'clock.

[Worthy4England]

It’s interesting in that obviously I’ve not been keen on Evatt for a long while. I’ve had doubts that turned into full blown ‘get rid’ for a long while. However, in all honesty i knew that I was probably in a minority. A growing minority but one that was still probably outnumbered. And I don’t think it became a majority till after Huddersfield but even then my feeling was whilst it was a majority it was not emphatic in its totality. Plenty who had moved across were still ‘well it’s a shame it’s time but he could still turn it round’. There wasn’t anger or vitriol in the main.

I do sense that has now changed and I think it’s at the point Keith Hill described on the radio where once people are shouting for you to be sacked and there is anger you don’t really come back from that. It’s always there. And even a good run is only a temporary interlude.

I think people have their own motivations. I don't want to get shut because I'm angry, I want a change coz I don't see him getting us up, this season. It's much easier to make a reasoned choice when not angry, IMO. Taken over his tenure, I still think he's in credit (despite not liking his Brand). He could, via the play-offs get us up, sure but I think we'll choke. I don't agree Top 6 is minimum standard, I think most L1 managers would be delighted with the backing Evatt's had and if that's the yardstick to measure against, the possibility of an equally competent replacement is more feasible. Top 6 with a chance, is much wider fishing waters.

[boltonboris]

Top 6 is ok if you can evidence good performances and results against the other teams around you. We can't, so it's almost pointless

Personally, I've no real doubt that Evatt will amass enough points to finish somewhere between 6th and 3rd. But to what end? There is no confidence that would lead us to promotion. We'd fluff it. We know that, he knows that, the players know that. Do the board?

[boltonboris]

So we may as well get rid and hire someone who we know can add a steeliness to a fairly talented group of players and if the same problems persist, then the players heads are on the chopping block instead

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I think people have their own motivations. I don't want to get shut because I'm angry, I want a change coz I don't see him getting us up, this season. It's much easier to make a reasoned choice when not angry, IMO. Taken over his tenure, I still think he's in credit (despite not liking his Brand). He could, via the play-offs get us up, sure but I think we'll choke. I don't agree Top 6 is minimum standard, I think most L1 managers would be delighted with the backing Evatt's had and if that's the yardstick to measure against, the possibility of an equally competent replacement is more feasible. Top 6 with a chance, is much wider fishing waters.

Very much agreed. A wise man once told me it's difficult to be simultaneously angry and grateful, and I'm genuinely grateful we've had Evatt as manager. I don't really see any positive reason to (try to) traduce his whole time at the club, although I do understand it's a result of anger.

And I do think that anger will increasingly replace gratitude the longer this goes on. Because right now we do still have a chance to be top two - more chance, I'd argue, than with this manager. We have a strong chance of being top six - and more chance, I'd argue, of not fluffing it again if we change manager.

I'm sure there's a business argument that Evatt has carefully assembled his own players, staff etc and that a new man would want to replace some of that. You'd have to counter that with the increased likelihood of being marooned in this division. And I would also be asking potential managers just how much they'd need to alter. I reckon most would think they can get a tune out of it without major surgery.

[Worthy4England]

I'm treating myself to the highlights.

1st goal, Szabi loses ball. Sheehan is 5 yards in our half, Matete maybe 15. They amble like a pair of geriatric fcukwits and as they drive into our box all of Szabi, McAtee and JDC are nearer the fcuking action. They could've sat down and read a book. Sheehan probably nearest to Collar ambles off, leaving Szabi (LWB) to try and effect a tackle..Criminal.

Goal 2 our old repeated time and again favourite. Spare man in the fcuking 6 yard box. Shitshow.

#3. Free header - 6 yard box, another favourite - with Vic trying a rugby tackle. What's wrong with trying to win your fcking header?

I'm not qualified to talk about goal 4. I know my limitations. People who know modern football can talk that one. Yes it's an obvious error by Matete but it's the fcking system that has him in that position

5, another favourite where they go from inside their own half to scoring from the edge and no tackle. Not one. Sheehan happily watching Bate putting no pressure on him. Forrester tries to tackle, just no one has taught him how.

[BWFC_Insane]

It’s interesting in that obviously I’ve not been keen on Evatt for a long while. I’ve had doubts that turned into full blown ‘get rid’ for a long while. However, in all honesty i knew that I was probably in a minority. A growing minority but one that was still probably outnumbered. And I don’t think it became a majority till after Huddersfield but even then my feeling was whilst it was a majority it was not emphatic in its totality. Plenty who had moved across were still ‘well it’s a shame it’s time but he could still turn it round’. There wasn’t anger or vitriol in the main.

I do sense that has now changed and I think it’s at the point Keith Hill described on the radio where once people are shouting for you to be sacked and there is anger you don’t really come back from that. It’s always there. And even a good run is only a temporary interlude.

I think people have their own motivations. I don't want to get shut because I'm angry, I want a change coz I don't see him getting us up, this season. It's much easier to make a reasoned choice when not angry, IMO. Taken over his tenure, I still think he's in credit (despite not liking his Brand). He could, via the play-offs get us up, sure but I think we'll choke. I don't agree Top 6 is minimum standard, I think most L1 managers would be delighted with the backing Evatt's had and if that's the yardstick to measure against, the possibility of an equally competent replacement is more feasible. Top 6 with a chance, is much wider fishing waters.

I would say that I’ve not been angry till post Wembley. Till we’ve thrown away season after season and the most money we’ve spent in well over a decade - for a man who clearly has a hugely inflated opinion of himself and what he is.

Dispassionately I don’t think he’s done very well. I think the context of results - I think has been poor. But that’s not unusual for managers here let’s be frank. But he’s had a much easier time than any manager we’ve had that I can remember a much more favourable situation. Yet initially he had no players and had to do a total rebuild but had the luxury of all the early disaster being in empty stadia. Since then though he’s had everything and more a manager could ask for. Money. Time. Multiple mid season rebuilds. A complete absence of any obvious pressure being applied. A relatively (last season) weak league. And he still couldn’t build a squad capable of getting out of league one.

Turn my passion on and I’m just angry, angry that this man has been allowed to put his own ego and career ahead of the football club. No manager should ever talk about their ‘brand’ and why it matters to them when managing a league one club. Ever. It has to be about the best thing for the club. Evatt has as clear as night follows day, wanted an image to enable him to get more coveted jobs. And has deliberately to excess poked at that over doing what the club needs which is actually achieving stuff. He blinded people too - some of our fans were happy with ‘image’ over actual substance and result for a while which drove me (appropriately) insane.

A manager doing their best but being not great doesn’t make me angry (though keeping them past their sell by date might). What exorcises me is when their agenda is clearly not all about maximising the clubs position.

[Worthy4England]

I think there's a world of difference between your view of maximising the Club's position vs his brand, and his. I don't doubt for a minute he believes the two lead to the same happy and victorious place.

There has been a view, which I think you and I agree on, which is roughly that the plan feels over-complex for a L1 team and is probably more difficult to recruit for with players of sufficient calibre and is more often than not going to hit a L1 ceiling. It is probably less forgiving in terms of rejigging personnel than some more conventional systems. In short trying to be L1 Citeh, is tougher. When it works, it works fine, but there are going to be too many muck and nettles games for it to be a shoo-in for better than top 6. Despite a full squad, we spend half our time bemoaning our resilience. For me, that in part, is because it's not a very resilient system for a L1 team.

I don't think he blinded people, I think lots are blinded by "modern football." Defenders cocking up from a play out from the back has gone from being "train with the B's" to pretty normal...

[BWFC_Insane]

I think there's a world of difference between your view of maximising the Club's position vs his brand, and his. I don't doubt for a minute he believes the two lead to the same happy and victorious place.

There has been a view, which I think you and I agree on, which is roughly that the plan feels over-complex for a L1 team and is probably more difficult to recruit for with players of sufficient calibre and is more often than not going to hit a L1 ceiling. It is probably less forgiving in terms of rejigging personnel than some more conventional systems. In short trying to be L1 Citeh, is tougher. When it works, it works fine, but there are going to be too many muck and nettles games for it to be a shoo-in for better than top 6. Despite a full squad, we spend half our time bemoaning our resilience. For me, that in part, is because it's not a very resilient system for a L1 team.

I don't think he blinded people, I think lots are blinded by "modern football." Defenders cocking up from a play out from the back has gone from being "train with the B's" to pretty normal...

Maybe. His interviews though have always and consistently focussed on him and moving pressure and expectation off him. Allardyce as manager embraced the pressure of needing promotion and knowing it was disastrous if we don’t get it whilst losing all his best players.

Evatt does the opposite. ‘Ok look we’ve improved season after season we play great stuff, it was just one game’.

Instead of taking the responsibility and pressure he directs it elsewhere. I find that is the thing that raises my blood pressure. And I can’t help but feel it’s because his overriding priority is his image in the game. Not making us a success. Paul Warne shows how to do it. He’s done it multiple times. In much more constrained situations than Evatt. Yet Evatt simply won’t entertain it because he wants to have an image that unlocks higher jobs imho. It’s all about him and his ego, again imho. Derby currently sit 12th in the championship.

As for the modern football but agree entirely. It’s a tough watch. I watched the Chelsea, Arsenal game yesterday. Don’t watch that much top flight stuff now. But watched it. Unadulterated rubbish. I realise I’m just old but how it folk watch this week in week out? The most likely goal threat came from either side losing it trying to play out from the back.

[TANGODANCER]

Still trying hard to understand how teams playing basic football can be so far removed from our superior data planned tactics that we can loose 5-0 to them and wonder why? It isn't even hard to see that possession of the ball (which we don't actually have that much of right now anyway) without an end product, can be classed as an asset except in keeping clean sheets. We are no threat to anybody right now. We give away soft goals so that guys can run around waving laptops and shouting at each other to what end? This shouting and pointing is just utterly pointless at best, because none of it is worth a carrot against one ball in the net equation. We can't make simple passes or even hit our own players with throw ins, shoot straight and our corner kicks are just time wasters.

Conclusion: We've forgotten how to play football. Ian Evatt is suffering from football amnesia. May he soon recover.

That would be well and good TD, except we had 61% possession at weekend. Zero shots on target and still managed to concede 5 and 10 shots on target, from the 39% possession they had.

"(which we don't actually have that much of right now anyway) without an end product,

[irie Cee Bee]

I simply think that Evatt is not as good as he thinks he is. He has one style and cannot adjust to anything that is going on during the game. It works against weaker sides who gives us space to play, fails when we play half decent sides who gives us less space to play in. He wants our Toal, Johnston and Santos to play like Franz Bekenbauer, Sheehan to play like Andres Iniesta, and our forwards like Nicholas Anelka. I have news for him. They can't, so the least he can do, is help them to figure out how to win games differently based on their abilities.

Evatt is just like the players, limited, but the problem is he doesn't believe that. He believes he is God's gift to Bolton Wanderers. The sooner he acknowledges his limitations, the better chance he has of improving as a manager.

[Worthy4England]

Still trying hard to understand how teams playing basic football can be so far removed from our superior data planned tactics that we can loose 5-0 to them and wonder why? It isn't even hard to see that possession of the ball (which we don't actually have that much of right now anyway) without an end product, can be classed as an asset except in keeping clean sheets. We are no threat to anybody right now. We give away soft goals so that guys can run around waving laptops and shouting at each other to what end? This shouting and pointing is just utterly pointless at best, because none of it is worth a carrot against one ball in the net equation. We can't make simple passes or even hit our own players with throw ins, shoot straight and our corner kicks are just time wasters.

Conclusion: We've forgotten how to play football. Ian Evatt is suffering from football amnesia. May he soon recover.

That would be well and good TD, except we had 61% possession at weekend. Zero shots on target and still managed to concede 5 and 10 shots on target, from the 39% possession they had.

"(which we don't actually have that much of right now anyway) without an end product,

Ahh, gotcha. Sorry TD.

[Mar]

So, in the end I watched the game having missed it on Sat to see how bad we were. Wish I hadn't bothered. It's not often we're going to make the defeat against Oxford at Wembley look good.

4 shots, all blocked. None off target, none on target. Sum total of ZERO shots heading at the goal. Embarrassing.

[The_Gun]

So, in the end I watched the game having missed it on Sat to see how bad we were. Wish I hadn't bothered. It's not often we're going to make the defeat against Oxford at Wembley look good.

4 shots, all blocked. None off target, none on target. Sum total of ZERO shots heading at the goal. Embarrassing.

Why on earth did you put yourself through that?!

[Mar]

So, in the end I watched the game having missed it on Sat to see how bad we were. Wish I hadn't bothered. It's not often we're going to make the defeat against Oxford at Wembley look good.

4 shots, all blocked. None off target, none on target. Sum total of ZERO shots heading at the goal. Embarrassing.

Why on earth did you put yourself through that?!

Had it on in the background. Seen most games so didn't want to break my streak.

[boltonboris]

Sick vile pervert