Referees

[seanworth]

Nothing is going to be perfect. Right now though in the game of football, cheating is basically condoned in the sport so players now simply think it is part of the game. I'm sure cheating does occur in rugby and even ice hockey but no way close to the extent that it does in football. Does that mean that only lying, cheating bastards take up the sport of football or has the sport done so little to deal with this problem that this culture has developed. Start trying to deal with the problem and this culture will change, and thus refs will have a much easier time calling a good game. Technology is a good start. Life is not perfect and wrong calls are still made in Rugby, American football, Ice Hockey etc. People live with it. The next thing is force the players regardless of who they are, who they play for, to show respect to the refs. This as mentioned above has to supported by the powers above. I think you will be shocked just how fast the football culture will change. Time for organizations to quit thinking how much money they can stick up the butt hole and start looking after the game.

The players will never sort it out themselves if they know they can get away with it.

[Owen_Coyle]

Nothing is going to be perfect. Right now though in the game of football, cheating is basically condoned in the sport so players now simply think it is part of the game. I'm sure cheating does occur in rugby and even ice hockey but no way close to the extent that it does in football. Does that mean that only lying, cheating bastards take up the sport of football or has the sport done so little to deal with this problem that this culture has developed. Start trying to deal with the problem and this culture will change, and thus refs will have a much easier time calling a good game. Technology is a good start. Life is not perfect and wrong calls are still made in Rugby, American football, Ice Hockey etc. People live with it. The next thing is force the players regardless of who they are, who they play for, to show respect to the refs. This as mentioned above has to supported by the powers above. I think you will be shocked just how fast the football culture will change. Time for organizations to quit thinking how much money they can stick up the butt hole and start looking after the game.

The players will never sort it out themselves if they know they can get away with it.

Absolutely agree with all that Sean.

You're dead right that refereeing a match of any sport is not a precise science, it will always be one person's interpretation of the rules given the situation he has before him. But one thing IS black or white, but only the individual involved will know this, is that the player has either cheated or he hasn't.

[Worthy4England]

Having played rugby for a good number of years, cheating does indeed go on aplenty - hands in the ruck/scrum (which is the scheme of things is little different than a free kick at football) etc. sly digs in the scrum, popping and dropping in the scrum, not to mention "bloodgate". It's gone on for years, to the extent that in the pack especially, it's understood that it goes on and strategies are developed to stop it occurring. The ability to draw a technical offence - be it offside, coming in from the wrong side etc. is viewed as part of the "art form" - a bit like us or Stoke have been accused of playing for free kicks etc.

I think the major difference is, that a penalty at rugby is often not the end of the world - unless it's in the 80th minute with the teams level on points. You don't get many games of rugby where it's 0-0 or 3-0 (one score) and generally, the better side on the day will win.

[Tombwfc]

Reviews after games and hit the cheating bastards with 3-5 game suspensions or up to 10 games if it is determined that it effected the outcome of a match. Watch how fast they learn.

"After the event" judgements and suspension don't change results. It's the results of games affected by bad decision that are the crux of it all. Get em right during the game, not after it.
Everything else in football has become modernised, why not refereeing standards? Technology, I tells you, technology.

I agree with you entirely about technology in games.

However, I still reckon it'd be unfeasible to accurately decide if someone is cheating during a game, even if you did use technology. Really, arguing against retrospective punishments for divers because it won't change the result is a bit like arguing against prison sentences for murderers because it won't bring back the victim.

Surely video technology would sort out divers in the box for penalties and such like?

At least the big calls would be more likely to be right!

I think it would take too much time to decide that during the game with the way things stand now IMO. Just whether it was a penalty or not would do.

For me, calling a sportsman a cheat is fairly massive, so it'd have to be retrospective, and it'd have to be dives where no contact at all has been made. If we get into simulation and arbitrarily deciding what the correct response to that level of contact should've been, it all becomes very complicated.

One thing that is worth noting about the Man Utd stats on the other page is that even in a perfectly fair world, they'd still get loads more penalties than they concede because they spend a lot more time attacking. It's hard for us, for example, to complain about not getting penalties at OT when we rarely ever venture into their box in the first place.

[BWFC_Insane]

Reviews after games and hit the cheating bastards with 3-5 game suspensions or up to 10 games if it is determined that it effected the outcome of a match. Watch how fast they learn.

"After the event" judgements and suspension don't change results. It's the results of games affected by bad decision that are the crux of it all. Get em right during the game, not after it.
Everything else in football has become modernised, why not refereeing standards? Technology, I tells you, technology.

I agree with you entirely about technology in games.

However, I still reckon it'd be unfeasible to accurately decide if someone is cheating during a game, even if you did use technology. Really, arguing against retrospective punishments for divers because it won't change the result is a bit like arguing against prison sentences for murderers because it won't bring back the victim.

Surely video technology would sort out divers in the box for penalties and such like?

At least the big calls would be more likely to be right!

I think it would take too much time to decide that during the game with the way things stand now IMO. Just whether it was a penalty or not would do.

For me, calling a sportsman a cheat is fairly massive, so it'd have to be retrospective, and it'd have to be dives where no contact at all has been made. If we get into simulation and arbitrarily deciding what the correct response to that level of contact should've been, it all becomes very complicated.

One thing that is worth noting about the Man Utd stats on the other page is that even in a perfectly fair world, they'd still get loads more penalties than they concede because they spend a lot more time attacking. It's hard for us, for example, to complain about not getting penalties at OT when we rarely ever venture into their box in the first place.

I agree my point being that there would be less incentive to take a "tumble" in the box if you know its being reviewed and therefore you're less likely to win your side a penalty.

[Owen_Coyle]

For me, calling a sportsman a cheat is fairly massive, so it'd have to be retrospective, and it'd have to be dives where no contact at all has been made. If we get into simulation and arbitrarily deciding what the correct response to that level of contact should've been, it all becomes very complicated.

I think it was Graham Poll who was asked about booking people for diving a couple of years ago, and you could tell with his reply (probably based on the number of times he reckoned it actually happens in a match) that he wasn't totally happy with having to call a person a cheat; many times during a match maybe. I'm sure most refs would have that view, and that is why the onus must be on the players to change their ways. But we need something drastic (and backed by all) to force this upon them.

Another feature of gamesmanship (I won't call it cheating, but it is really!) that has got totally out of hand is the business of players going down as if poleaxed every time anyone has gone for a header against them with their arms anywhere but straight by their sides. Anyone who has jumped into the air, never mind played football, will know that you can't do it unless you use your arms for propulsion. Mark Davies and Klasnic have both been sent off this season for doing no more than watching the ball and moving and jumping towards the ball to head it. Neither would have got any reprimand at all if their opponent hadnt fallen like a sack of shit afterwards.

I think the constant TV slow-mo's and media coverage of this has long-since influenced referees' attention to this and they have turned a minor problem (in my view) to a problem that has been blown out of all proportion. But I do think that cheating (again) by the players in most (not all I grant you) of these cases has caused it.

[Lofthouse Lower]

REFEREE Mark Clattenburg will not take charge of a Premier League game this weekend, following on from criticism of his performance in the Wanderers game at Tottenham last weekend

[Horza]

GIUSTIZIA PER OWEN COYLE!

[Owen_Coyle]

GIUSTIZIA PER OWEN COYLE!

I think I can translate the the last 3 words Horza. If I only knew what the 1st one was ??

Looks Italian but not quite sure !!

[William the White]

GIUSTIZIA PER OWEN COYLE!

I think I can translate the the last 3 words Horza. If I only knew what the 1st one was ??

Looks Italian but not quite sure !!

Might be justice, Owen?

[Owen_Coyle]

GIUSTIZIA PER OWEN COYLE!

I think I can translate the the last 3 words Horza. If I only knew what the 1st one was ??

Looks Italian but not quite sure !!

Might be justice, Owen?

Might be Will. Could also be gobshite !!

[bobo the clown]

GIUSTIZIA PER OWEN COYLE!

I think I can translate the the last 3 words Horza. If I only knew what the 1st one was ??

Looks Italian but not quite sure !!

Might be justice, Owen?

It is 'justice', but in the feminine case .... mmmmm !!

[newboy]

REFEREE Mark Clattenburg will not take charge of a Premier League game this weekend, following on from criticism of his performance in the Wanderers game at Tottenham last weekend

a week to feckin late

[Prufrock]

The feminine case?! Dear me Bobo.

[bobo the clown]

The feminine case?! Dear me Bobo.

Ooops.

Anyway, here's one ....

[TANGODANCER]

The feminine case?! Dear me Bobo.

Ooops.

Anyway, here's one ....

Is that standard Arsenal issue?

[thebish]

Is that standard Arsenal issue?

it seems so...

[thebish]

shocking decision today to give the fk that led to our first goal...

even Robbo looked utterly mystified we had won a freekick...

bloody refs eh?

[Lord Kangana]

Its the start of our Newcastle-esque comeback.

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

Suppose Coyle slamming Clattenburg worked. Miracles do happen.

(oh, Clattenburg was centre of attention in his Championship game today as well. Never learns.)