Papering over the cracks?

[hisroyalgingerness]

Papering over the cracks? I had you down as one of the overwhelming positive optimistic ones BWFCi who when someone dares criticise after a win says "stop moaning, we won", when most folk can see a handful of things that a better side might exploit.

Like for example, if someone might have suggested after the West Ham game that actually, Mandy didn't have a great game and was lucky against a piss-poor West Ham.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I think once the emotions of yesterday settle it wont seem quite so bad. A little perspective...

1. Whatever happens, this season is an improvement over the last few.
2. This season we have had some hope, a possibility of better things to come, a reason to smile.
3. Coyle took on a huge job and hasn't had a pot to piss in when it comes to spending in the transfer market. So far he has been 'fairly' astute with the players he has brought in.

I think we all agree that Holden and his loan signings of Wilshire and Sturridge have been top notch. Alonso is a kid with promise and I'm sure brought in with a longer term aim of taking over from Robinson. It is his first season over here as a youngster. Lets judge him in a year when he has had chance to get more games.

Wheater is yet to prove himself for us, but an improvement over any other defensive back-up at the club I think we can agree.

Petrov has had the odd moment, but hasn't delivered. Hopefully we can get rid in the summer.

Rodrigo has had his moments, but again, hasn't set the world on fire. The kid has potential, but not ready yet for me.

Klasnic is fine for a super sub role and no more!

It is going to take a few transfer windows to really change this team, given the budget we'll have. The more we can get for Cahill the easier it should be. We need to sort out the left side. Get a proper right back and another decent midfielder. A replacement for Elmander is also needed. There is no chance of us sorting that lot out in the summer, even with money from Cahill.

That said, we're no worse off than many teams in the PL. We've got a good manager that players want to play for, who I assume learnt a harsh lesson yesterday. Coyle will more or less know who is going in the summer and will have a plan for replacements. Lets just put yesterday behind us and enjoy what is left of the season. Get behind the team - the players know they let us down and the worthwhile ones will be busting a gut to put that right...

[James B]

if we lose sturridge, elmander & cahill in the summer (all very likely to happen) then coyle has a huge job on his hands producing the same kind of season we have had this season.

even moreso if stu holden isn't fit for the start of it.

Cahill will likely bring in around 20m. Money, maybe not all of it, will be spend to get us a new cb, a striker, and most likely another midfielder. If some of our reserves keep improving we might even have a better season. Nothing is sure right now, but I don't think we are in the deep sh#t that many of you believe. Yesterday was a nightmare, the season to many has been a revelation. Neither is really an accurate portrayal of this club, nor the shape we are in, but we do seem to be on the rise.

i don't think we are in deep sh*t either. and i don't subscribe to some of the kneejerk nonsense i've read on here since last night (understandable after yesterday though)

it's just a big challenge for coyle to repeat this season let alone build on it if those 3 go. money doesn't always guarantee quality signings but will give us a bit more choice maybe.

think we also have a decision to make on the goalkeeping situation. aside from a howler against citeh al habsi has been good for wigan & bogdan has impressed in his cameos. jaaskelainen hasn't looked quite as assured lately.

[seanworth]

I agree that the Jussi era is likely coming to an end, fortunately at the present moment we are not bad in that department. Will be interesting how many players will be available after teams are relegated.

[BWFC_Insane]

Papering over the cracks? I had you down as one of the overwhelming positive optimistic ones BWFCi who when someone dares criticise after a win says "stop moaning, we won", when most folk can see a handful of things that a better side might exploit.

Like for example, if someone might have suggested after the West Ham game that actually, Mandy didn't have a great game and was lucky against a piss-poor West Ham.

After the West Ham game I said the downside was that our makeshift midfield hadn't been given a proper test. Elmander had a good game against West Ham but I did say I was worried Stoke would be completely different.

As it goes I was expecting Mark Davies to be risked from the start.

But hey ho. People are taking this as criticism of Coyle which its not. Its more that for whatever reasons he hasn't really been able to build much in the time he's been here, mainly loans and frees. So the test is going to be there this summer.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

We've a lot out of contract

Who are they? Not to quibble, just to check, because I don't know.

As to your central point: yes, without Holden we're a much worse team. It's therefore a pity that our system demands utter excellence from our central midfielders, that our No.1 back-up Mavis has also been injured, and that our No.2 back-up Cohen seems to be one of the few players who have gone backwards since the managerial change – although that could obviously be due to his father's death.

Holden was an excellent signing, Sturridge an excellent loan. No manager has a 100% hit-rate - ask Eric Djemba-Djemba. I understand your worry - personally I wouldn't be so keen to spend as much of our budget on the (ex-)Madrid kids as OC seems to think. But I also honestly believe we'll get another superb young loanee or two next season, and the season after, while we also rebuild the squad with permanent signings. If we continue to play as we have this season, we could become a very attractive destination for reasonably young players unable top establish themselves in the bloated top-six squads; it wouldn't surprise me to see Sturridge back for good in a couple of years.

[TKIZ!]

I think maybe getting Weiss in for Petrov again would aid the swift counterattacking style that Coyle craves.

[Horza]

Eh? If anything there's even less substance to Weiss' game.

[James B]

I think maybe getting Weiss in for Petrov again would aid the swift counterattacking style that Coyle craves.

didn't weiss have a bit of a pop at coyle when he was here because he wasn't playing much?

plus he's said how he's enjoyed his time at rangers.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Weiss was initially exciting but ultimately unproductive. We can do better.

[a1]

wiess is ten times better than petrov , on the wing elmander is better than petrov.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

This article from our favourite Mirror writer sums up what I'm getting at.....

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Bo ... 25165.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We shouldn't miss Holden like we do but we did. And that reflects perhaps on how poor our midfield options are, and that when he's playing he covers for Muamba's deficiencies and the fact that Mark Davies offers little when not in possession. When he was out we ended up with a striker in midfield.

Same for Sturridge, when he's out we have nowt to compare and his goals may well cover up the issues we have when Holden isn't playing, perhaps without his 2 solo efforts last week we'd have drawn or lost. That is what I mean by these two covering up deficiencies we actually have that we shouldn't.

Lets imagine Stoke lost their main striker and midfield player. Whelan and Jones (or Walters and Delap either way). They'd put in Fuller/Carew and Whitehead. Now they'd be weakened. But would it have meant we'd have beaten them yesterday? I don't think so. And they'd still have had players who have played a lot of premiership games playing in their correct positions in roles they know very well! We haven't got that luxury and perhaps if Holden hadn't have been so good this season and Sturridge hadn't have come in and scored those goals we'd have all been saying this in November!

My point being that we need to plug the gaping holes in the squad as we can't rely on the brilliance of a loanee and a free transfer every season to cover up a deficient squad (and we know its deficient last season being the proof!).

But surely BWFCI in Coyle we have a manager who has proven he can both identify good players, and get them consistently playing to their best. Therefore there is no reason why we shouldn't expect the squad to keep improving.

I think it is important to sell Cahill this summer. He is a good player, but nowhere near worth the £20m we will hopefully get, and more importantly he doesn't even guarantee clean sheets for us. For me the partnership of him and Knight is on of the poorer in the Prem, although I like the partnership of him and Wheater. I really think Wheater and another £4m CH will be every bit as good as our defence with Cahill in it. Even Ricketts with Knight or Wheater looks every bit as good also.

With the Cahill money we can hopefully buy a couple of decent midfielders and a striker also. With seemingly better development of our youth players, there is every reason to believe we will develop the club well whilst Coyle is here, and that there will be more exciting times ahead.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

so no-one identifies full back as a priority? even after yesterday?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

so no-one identifies full back as a priority? even after yesterday?

It might be desirable but it might not be a priority. There's a big job on to rebuild, replace and reinforce, with Cahill (probably), Elmander (possibly) and Sturridge (certainly) leaving, plus the self-evident need for midfield additions, full-back might not be the area Coyle concentrates on.

[BWFC_Insane]

DSB to my knowledge out of contracts are...

Elmander
Steinsson
Gardner
Cohen
Samuel
Joey O Brien


Thats to my knowledge. Not sure about Sean Davis, think he's got another year. I know many of those are not first teamers but they will still reduce the wage bill allowing for additions one would hope!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

DSB to my knowledge out of contracts are...

Elmander
Steinsson
Gardner
Cohen
Samuel
Joey O Brien


Thats to my knowledge. Not sure about Sean Davis, think he's got another year. I know many of those are not first teamers but they will still reduce the wage bill allowing for additions one would hope!

Cheers. Is it intriguing that there's been no mention of contract talks with any of them, including Steinsson?

[Armchair Wanderer]

DSB to my knowledge out of contracts are...

Elmander
Steinsson
Gardner
Cohen
Samuel
Joey O Brien


Thats to my knowledge. Not sure about Sean Davis, think he's got another year. I know many of those are not first teamers but they will still reduce the wage bill allowing for additions one would hope!

Cheers. Is it intriguing that there's been no mention of contract talks with any of them, including Steinsson?

Plus there are also the ones who would have been here til the end of the season but were paid off...
Shittu
Riga

[wanderers_on_tour]

Wasn't there rumours of steinsson having a few 'issues' in addition to the injury he suffered a few month back? il leave it at that but maybe that may have overshadowed any contract talks/put them on the back burner. I like him as a person and think the competition between him and ricketts will be as good as it gets in the short term at right back..out of intrest is there any good full backs coming up from the reserves?? I think alonso will come good given another season to settle in.

[Hoboh]

Steinson should stay as cover for a new right back who knows where players are around him or send him to spec savers!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Yep, there have indeed been rumours. Maybe it's that, but it would also seem slightly odd that a twentysomething international who's played 100+ games for the club after costing us £3.5m is being allowed to drift towards a Bosman.