Wanderers Vs Man U

[Athers]

If you've paid you can do what you want really.

Some like singing that we're the greatest team the world has ever seen at 5-0 down, some leave early to get their Saturday nights started an hour earlier than otherwise, but personally I prefer the silent arms-folded sulk until full time.

[Prufrock]

Not entirely sure why there is so much stick for Robinson. The entirety of United's attack down his side, with a preening show pony pissing about in front of him. Not that he was great, but I don't think he was outstandingly shit. He is the only one of the back four you can't pin a goal down to and say he, himself, personally should have stopped that.

Totally disagree. Goal 1, he leaves Nani 10 yards of space to get a cross in, when your centre halves have Rooney and the Mexican to defend against who are both incredibly sharp it's imperative that pressure is put on the final ball or cross. Basic stuff.

Goal 2 Petrov is back and under Robinsons instruction drops onto Nani whilst Robinson does feck all and marks free space. Leaves Jones free and unmarked to curl a cross in under no pressure! This is Robinsons area to manage, watch him, he's scared of getting tight on Nani therefore pulling Petrov into the wrong area.

Goal 3 Robinson is completely taken out of play by a Nani flick and then is puffing to get back into contention. Clearly there is more at fault than just Robinson here but his defending was absolutely basic shite.

Goal 5 a diagonal crossfield and Robinson is an absolute mile of Nani he then let's Nani run towards the box, completely backs off, no pressure then let's him pick out a pass with no pressure on the ball. Completely unacceptable.

And let's not even mention his laughable defending for the disallowed goal!

He was shit, granted, but my point is none of his mistakes actually caused the goals. Caused unnecessary crosses into the box, certainly, thought criticising him for not getting tight to Nani is absolute bollocks. Certainly, however, there were preventable crosses. My point however is that it is one thing to allow an easy cross, but you've got to expect the rest of the defence to cope far better, with far simpler choices. The first goal Cahill never knows where Hernandez is, fantastic movement from the diving little shit, but piss poor defending, the second one, this Boyata who you claim can apparently defend, lets Rooney saunter into space 8 yards out, and doesn't even try to get there first. I'm not going to write him off yet, and when I saw him last season he looked very good in the middle, and very uncertain at full back, but that was pish. The third one was shite all round, but Knight's lie down no-where near the ball gets worse every time you see it.

I often wonder if the reason everyone thinks our fullbacks are shit is because people know nowt about playing there. The fifth goal for example, I've only seen it once in the flesh mind, but he seemed to do everything right, and got no support at all. If the midfield is doing anything like it's job, Nani would have had no option. You also contradict yourself, slagging off Robinson for giving Nani for too much time, and then slagging him for getting too tight for the third goal, and not being quick enough to get back. That Nani is a top player, with bags of pace is why you don't get tight in the first place. Equally, if you have a choice between letting a diagonal ball go to a player hugging the touchline, or going marking him and leaving an alleyway big enough to sail an oil tanker down between you and your centre half, you come inside and invite the ball to the wing. Also you can't go flying into tackles if you have no support, so you jockey and get time for the defence to organise themselves for the cross, which Messrs Knight and Cahill didn't do at all first half.

[Devon White]

who left early ?

i paid for espn at 5.10 - £9 for a month,
at 5.35 i got what i expected 1 - 0, but i then expected us to tighten up and use the ball !!! davies gets booked, then several players look like they are playing playground football,
then 2 - 0,
5.50 i switched the tv off, seriously annoyed with myself for throwing my dummy out so early, but if this had been a megson managed team we all know what most on this forum (me included) would have been saying ' megson out '. Scum are good, in fact it really hurts to say it but its good quick attacking football.
We were an absolute embarrasment (and thats based on twenty minutes), if i lived back up north i would still have a season ticket and no i would not have left early and yes i would be going to the next home game, as it stands now i am now NOT going to pay £35 for arsenal unless we put in a proper hardworking shift of football, RANT NEARLY OVER IN TYPE BUT NOT IN MY HEART, THAT HURT YESTERDAY.

[Peter Thompson]

i agree some changes are needed, tuncay ngog def need to start, i wasnt that impressed with boyata,didnt really create anything going forward, i would rather have rickets when hes fit

Boyata is a fooking defender and he did a decent job against Young. Fooks sake, we have a defender who looks like he might be able to defend and folk moan about him!

Boyata is a central defender not a RB - he should be in the side at Centre Back alongside Cahill if Coyle had the balls to drop that big lump Knight.

Coyle's stubbonness to play his favourites even though they are clearly shite and in a very poor run of form (Jussi, Knight, Robinson, K Davies) and this 4-4-2 at any cost is not what I expected from Owen Coyle. I thought that he was supposedly an inspirational tactically asute, motivational manager who likes to play decent football. At the moment although its clear to see that he is trying to play good football, which is refreshing and has brought some decent players to the club - but since Wembley his tactical naivity and total lack of imagination during a game are costing us (I agree this 11 back for a corner regardless of the situation of the game is baffling).

Also, this just go out and play mentality (we'll score more than them....), won't work with the players and system that we have. He needs to wise up and bring in a new defensive coach & goalkeeping coach because on the face of it the ones we have (probably ex Burnley) are piss poor and not premier league standard

The whole back 5 (inc keeper) are just disorganised - the keeper constantly glued to his line, defenders apparently zonal marking instead of man marking and there looks to be a total lack of communication between them all.

Holden will make a difference when he comes back, as will Ricketts (can he play left back...!!), but for me the players don't look that motivated or inspired anymore (since Wembley) - OC needs to make some tough decisions (in terms of both the team and his tactics) - starting with dropping Jussi. K Davies, Robinson & Knight to the bench and getting some spirit, fight and passion into the team.

[Owenzy]

Funnily enough, I didn't think you were that bad. You had your moments and created some decent chances. De Gea played well, he made some shots look more comfortable than they were. You played far too openly though. Petrov had a good game, he put in some dangerous crosses. Kevin Davies is an absolute c*nt of a man, though I suppose it's only fair seen as Evans broke up Holden last season. We were just too clinical, Rooney is in the form of his life. At least you've got Liverpool, United and City out of the way already. Knight and Cahill were a shambles.

[a1]

He was shit, granted, but my point is none of his mistakes actually caused the goals. Caused unnecessary crosses into the box, certainly, thought criticising him for not getting tight to Nani is absolute bollocks. Certainly, however, there were preventable crosses. My point however is that it is one thing to allow an easy cross, but you've got to expect the rest of the defence to cope far better, with far simpler choices. The first goal Cahill never knows where Hernandez is, fantastic movement from the diving little shit, but piss poor defending, the second one, this Boyata who you claim can apparently defend, lets Rooney saunter into space 8 yards out, and doesn't even try to get there first. I'm not going to write him off yet, and when I saw him last season he looked very good in the middle, and very uncertain at full back, but that was pish. The third one was shite all round, but Knight's lie down no-where near the ball gets worse every time you see it.

I often wonder if the reason everyone thinks our fullbacks are shit is because people know nowt about playing there. The fifth goal for example, I've only seen it once in the flesh mind, but he seemed to do everything right, and got no support at all. If the midfield is doing anything like it's job, Nani would have had no option. You also contradict yourself, slagging off Robinson for giving Nani for too much time, and then slagging him for getting too tight for the third goal, and not being quick enough to get back. That Nani is a top player, with bags of pace is why you don't get tight in the first place. Equally, if you have a choice between letting a diagonal ball go to a player hugging the touchline, or going marking him and leaving an alleyway big enough to sail an oil tanker down between you and your centre half, you come inside and invite the ball to the wing. Also you can't go flying into tackles if you have no support, so you jockey and get time for the defence to organise themselves for the cross, which Messrs Knight and Cahill didn't do at all first half.

good, but irregardless of that they need a new left fullback and a new left winger.

the big teams rip that left side proper.

and theres something wrong with he midfielders.. muamba and holden should get their places back .

then muamba will lose his for some reason.

[BL3]

United won 5 away games last season, and only beat West Brom this season due to a late deflected goal, so the idea that they are some unstoppable juggernaut is bollocks.

...and we drew with them at home and lost narrowly away last season, so the idea that we are shit or that 4-4-2 doesn't work is also 'bollocks'. They've spent massively since then, we haven't. Even with our best team out and on top of our game we need them to have an off day to get anything. The gap is widening all the time.

[BWFC_Insane]

Not entirely sure why there is so much stick for Robinson. The entirety of United's attack down his side, with a preening show pony pissing about in front of him. Not that he was great, but I don't think he was outstandingly shit. He is the only one of the back four you can't pin a goal down to and say he, himself, personally should have stopped that.

Totally disagree. Goal 1, he leaves Nani 10 yards of space to get a cross in, when your centre halves have Rooney and the Mexican to defend against who are both incredibly sharp it's imperative that pressure is put on the final ball or cross. Basic stuff.

Goal 2 Petrov is back and under Robinsons instruction drops onto Nani whilst Robinson does feck all and marks free space. Leaves Jones free and unmarked to curl a cross in under no pressure! This is Robinsons area to manage, watch him, he's scared of getting tight on Nani therefore pulling Petrov into the wrong area.

Goal 3 Robinson is completely taken out of play by a Nani flick and then is puffing to get back into contention. Clearly there is more at fault than just Robinson here but his defending was absolutely basic shite.

Goal 5 a diagonal crossfield and Robinson is an absolute mile of Nani he then let's Nani run towards the box, completely backs off, no pressure then let's him pick out a pass with no pressure on the ball. Completely unacceptable.

And let's not even mention his laughable defending for the disallowed goal!

He was shit, granted, but my point is none of his mistakes actually caused the goals. Caused unnecessary crosses into the box, certainly, thought criticising him for not getting tight to Nani is absolute bollocks. Certainly, however, there were preventable crosses. My point however is that it is one thing to allow an easy cross, but you've got to expect the rest of the defence to cope far better, with far simpler choices. The first goal Cahill never knows where Hernandez is, fantastic movement from the diving little shit, but piss poor defending, the second one, this Boyata who you claim can apparently defend, lets Rooney saunter into space 8 yards out, and doesn't even try to get there first. I'm not going to write him off yet, and when I saw him last season he looked very good in the middle, and very uncertain at full back, but that was pish. The third one was shite all round, but Knight's lie down no-where near the ball gets worse every time you see it.

I often wonder if the reason everyone thinks our fullbacks are shit is because people know nowt about playing there. The fifth goal for example, I've only seen it once in the flesh mind, but he seemed to do everything right, and got no support at all. If the midfield is doing anything like it's job, Nani would have had no option. You also contradict yourself, slagging off Robinson for giving Nani for too much time, and then slagging him for getting too tight for the third goal, and not being quick enough to get back. That Nani is a top player, with bags of pace is why you don't get tight in the first place. Equally, if you have a choice between letting a diagonal ball go to a player hugging the touchline, or going marking him and leaving an alleyway big enough to sail an oil tanker down between you and your centre half, you come inside and invite the ball to the wing. Also you can't go flying into tackles if you have no support, so you jockey and get time for the defence to organise themselves for the cross, which Messrs Knight and Cahill didn't do at all first half.

I think we will have to agree to disagree there. For me once a player like Nani is given time to get a cross in with the likes of Hernandez and Rooney waiting your centre backs are on a hiding to nothing, the ball from Jones under no pressure as you might expect was top draw and Boyata was in a difficult position, easily could have inadvertently toe ended it in himself!

I understand Nani has pace, but a lot of fullbacks won't live with that but they also won't give him acres of space to work in. I also think it's a big ask of Petrov to be our main outlet and most attacking threat, and to cover Robinson and double up. That's not Robinsons fault, but I still think he shirked the responsibility of actually trying to stop balls coming into the box.

Interesting that Coyle has blasted the ease with which we let crosses in, I just hope he does something about it!

[Prufrock]

It's all well and good whining about the financial gap, but it isn't an excuse for turning up and assuming the position. Sure, the money they have means they have better players, and that having better players means they will beat us more times than not, but that they have spent far more than us is not why we got an absolute dicking yesterday. Perhaps no matter what we did they would have won yesterday, but I'm not having that there aren't basic, blatantly f*cking obvious solutions that mean we don't get an absolute dicking whenever we play anyone who can move the ball quickly. For those saying 'oh so you'd rather we shut up shop and got beat 1-0?'...hell fecking yes. That hurt yesterday, really fecking hurt, and what hurts the most is that we didn't compete, or even give ourselves the slightest chance to compete. Maybe OC will go on to a top club, where the players available mean you can go into every game concentrating on your own game, and know that in straight fight you'll blow the opposition away. We can't do that. There isn't a binary choice between religiously worshipping 0-0s and religiously worshipping 4-4-2. Some nuanced idea of a compromise would be nice.

Overall, are games like Newcastle and Spurs last season, offset against Chelsea and yesterday better than the Megson years? Of course they are, but there just seem to be such blatantly f*cking obvious steps we could make to improve further if only the manager showed some flexibility.

[Prufrock]

Not entirely sure why there is so much stick for Robinson. The entirety of United's attack down his side, with a preening show pony pissing about in front of him. Not that he was great, but I don't think he was outstandingly shit. He is the only one of the back four you can't pin a goal down to and say he, himself, personally should have stopped that.

Totally disagree. Goal 1, he leaves Nani 10 yards of space to get a cross in, when your centre halves have Rooney and the Mexican to defend against who are both incredibly sharp it's imperative that pressure is put on the final ball or cross. Basic stuff.

Goal 2 Petrov is back and under Robinsons instruction drops onto Nani whilst Robinson does feck all and marks free space. Leaves Jones free and unmarked to curl a cross in under no pressure! This is Robinsons area to manage, watch him, he's scared of getting tight on Nani therefore pulling Petrov into the wrong area.

Goal 3 Robinson is completely taken out of play by a Nani flick and then is puffing to get back into contention. Clearly there is more at fault than just Robinson here but his defending was absolutely basic shite.

Goal 5 a diagonal crossfield and Robinson is an absolute mile of Nani he then let's Nani run towards the box, completely backs off, no pressure then let's him pick out a pass with no pressure on the ball. Completely unacceptable.

And let's not even mention his laughable defending for the disallowed goal!

He was shit, granted, but my point is none of his mistakes actually caused the goals. Caused unnecessary crosses into the box, certainly, thought criticising him for not getting tight to Nani is absolute bollocks. Certainly, however, there were preventable crosses. My point however is that it is one thing to allow an easy cross, but you've got to expect the rest of the defence to cope far better, with far simpler choices. The first goal Cahill never knows where Hernandez is, fantastic movement from the diving little shit, but piss poor defending, the second one, this Boyata who you claim can apparently defend, lets Rooney saunter into space 8 yards out, and doesn't even try to get there first. I'm not going to write him off yet, and when I saw him last season he looked very good in the middle, and very uncertain at full back, but that was pish. The third one was shite all round, but Knight's lie down no-where near the ball gets worse every time you see it.

I often wonder if the reason everyone thinks our fullbacks are shit is because people know nowt about playing there. The fifth goal for example, I've only seen it once in the flesh mind, but he seemed to do everything right, and got no support at all. If the midfield is doing anything like it's job, Nani would have had no option. You also contradict yourself, slagging off Robinson for giving Nani for too much time, and then slagging him for getting too tight for the third goal, and not being quick enough to get back. That Nani is a top player, with bags of pace is why you don't get tight in the first place. Equally, if you have a choice between letting a diagonal ball go to a player hugging the touchline, or going marking him and leaving an alleyway big enough to sail an oil tanker down between you and your centre half, you come inside and invite the ball to the wing. Also you can't go flying into tackles if you have no support, so you jockey and get time for the defence to organise themselves for the cross, which Messrs Knight and Cahill didn't do at all first half.

I think we will have to agree to disagree there. For me once a player like Nani is given time to get a cross in with the likes of Hernandez and Rooney waiting your centre backs are on a hiding to nothing, the ball from Jones under no pressure as you might expect was top draw and Boyata was in a difficult position, easily could have inadvertently toe ended it in himself!

I understand Nani has pace, but a lot of fullbacks won't live with that but they also won't give him acres of space to work in. I also think it's a big ask of Petrov to be our main outlet and most attacking threat, and to cover Robinson and double up. That's not Robinsons fault, but I still think he shirked the responsibility of actually trying to stop balls coming into the box.

Interesting that Coyle has blasted the ease with which we let crosses in, I just hope he does something about it!

You can't slag him off for not being tight, and then slag him off for getting tight for the third goal. The only one where he makes a real error is the second, where he allows Jones far too much time to cross. The difference between that one and the others is that he had support. Any fullback 1v1 against Nani, unless he himself is lightening quick, which Robinson evidently isn't, who gets tight to Nani well get absolutely fooked. Flicks around the corner, 1-2s, spinning in behind, and then you have Nani, or Rooney, or as with their third goal Jones running at your centre half. When the ball wnet out for Nani, Robinson should close him down quickly in case he has a bad touch, if his first touch is good drop off, wait for support, and delay the cross. Given he had no support he did that about as well as he good for most of the time. If Petrov isn't going to track back then the left hand central midfielder has to help out, who in this case was Mark Davies, who has never made a tackle in his life. Robinson was left one on one, or one on two for most of the game. He didn't do well, but he had no help at all.

As for Boyata yes he was in a difficult position, and whose fault was that?! It's basic defending, defend narrow. He had too options once Rooney started to drift behind Cahill. Get in front of Rooney, or stay where he was. He stayed where he was and Rooney had an easy tap in from a very good cross. If he had moved inside, he would have left space at the back post for Rooney to run into. The difference, and reason why he should have moved in, is that this ball would involve Jones playing a longer, slower pass in the air. Rooney would have been outside the back post, and had to head it, and it would have taken longer for the ball to get there, giving Boyata chance to challenge and if not win the header, put Ronney off. Basic defending and he got it wrong. But then I don't think he is a right back, and he had a very shaky start which grew more assured as the game went on.

[ChrisC]

i agree some changes are needed, tuncay ngog def need to start, i wasnt that impressed with boyata,didnt really create anything going forward, i would rather have rickets when hes fit

How many players can keep young in the pocket for most the game? i don't remember Young doing anything of note all game .. then was subbed off.

Liked the look of Ngog .. he showed fight when he came on .. putting himself about which most of the team didn't do all game .. usually when we play manure we don't give them a second on the ball .. especially at the Reebok. Today we let them play which was suicidal.

Final thought would be that Davies needs to be dropped .. whats the point in having to slow lumps up top .. at least Ivan gets the ball and sprays it out wide etc .. Davo doesn't even hold the ball up anymore and i lost count how many times he gave the ball away and threw his arms in the air with one leading to them scoring.

[wanderers_on_tour]

Out of interest how many times this season has Jussi made a real save? like a good ol acrobatic bottom corner save? or even palmed the ball out of touch and not into the feet of a oncoming attacker, age is a poor excuse (see brad friedel) but he just looks like he can't be bothered anymore. I really, really rate Jussi and still think he's got a big role to play at the club, I just don't get wtf is up with him recently.

[Beefheart]

i agree some changes are needed, tuncay ngog def need to start, i wasnt that impressed with boyata,didnt really create anything going forward, i would rather have rickets when hes fit

How many players can keep young in the pocket for most the game? i don't remember Young doing anything of note all game .. then was subbed off.

Liked the look of Ngog .. he showed fight when he came on .. putting himself about which most of the team didn't do all game .. usually when we play manure we don't give them a second on the ball .. especially at the Reebok. Today we let them play which was suicidal.

Final thought would be that Davies needs to be dropped .. whats the point in having to slow lumps up top .. at least Ivan gets the ball and sprays it out wide etc .. Davo doesn't even hold the ball up anymore and i lost count how many times he gave the ball away and threw his arms in the air with one leading to them scoring.

Ngog made 5 out of 7 tackles playing only about half an hour. Agree with Davies, would like to see Tuncay and Klasnic or Ngog and Klasnic next week, don't think Ivan has done anything to deserve being dropped really.

[BWFC_Insane]

I will lose a bit of faith in Coyle if Davies keeps his place next week and Klasnic is left out!

[Peter Thompson]

Out of interest how many times this season has Jussi made a real save? like a good ol acrobatic bottom corner save? or even palmed the ball out of touch and not into the feet of a oncoming attacker, age is a poor excuse (see brad friedel) but he just looks like he can't be bothered anymore. I really, really rate Jussi and still think he's got a big role to play at the club, I just don't get wtf is up with him recently.

I think Jaaskelainen is a liability the same as I think K Davies is just a passenger in most games - He was a top keeper but he's nowhere near the level that he was. I agree that he generally looks disinterested (as does Davies), the problem is that I don't think that Bogdan is ready yet, but I suppose time will tell.

Surely OC can see that we can't continue playing Jaaskelainen (or K Davies) on current form ?

[William the White]

Out of interest how many times this season has Jussi made a real save? like a good ol acrobatic bottom corner save? or even palmed the ball out of touch and not into the feet of a oncoming attacker, age is a poor excuse (see brad friedel) but he just looks like he can't be bothered anymore. I really, really rate Jussi and still think he's got a big role to play at the club, I just don't get wtf is up with him recently.

I think Jaaskelainen is a liability the same as I think K Davies is just a passenger in most games - He was a top keeper but he's nowhere near the level that he was. I agree that he generally looks disinterested (as does Davies), the problem is that I don't think that Bogdan is ready yet, but I suppose time will tell.

Surely OC can see that we can't continue playing Jaaskelainen (or K Davies) on current form ?

Interesting, Peter. He should drop Jussi but Bogdan isn't ready yet? Wish you were our manager instead of that idiot, Coyle.

[Wandering Willy]

Where's the idea that Bogdan isn't ready yet coming from?

I don't see anything of them in training but I would have thought that the number 2 keeper at an established PL club should be ready to step up at any time.

He might not be the finished article and need games to improve but surely he should be good enough to consider playing?

[Peter Thompson]

Interesting, Peter. He should drop Jussi but Bogdan isn't ready yet? Wish you were our manager instead of that idiot, Coyle.

Here we go....there's no need for the sarcasm William is there really

Who has said that Coyle is an idiot ?

My opinion is that Jaaskelainen is no longer good enough to be our No1, and perhaps the defence have no confidence in him. However my thought is that perhaps Bogdan is not quite ready yet which if this is the case means that Coyle should not have sold Al Habsi - but by doing so must mean that either Coyle rates Bogdan ahead of Al Habsi or perhaps we really were skint and just needed the money.

Who knows perhaps with a run in the team Bogdan may do well, but unless he's given a chance we'll never know - but one thing's
for sure I'd don't think that Jaaskelainen is upto it anymore.

For the record William do you think Jaaskelainen is still a top premiership keeper and deserving of a 1st team place every week ?

[officer_dibble]

Bogdan was ready enough for us to sell Al Habsi. If i was him id be knocking on coyles door.

Still, coyle has his favourites. We'll see that went knightmare and captain stump are in the team next week.

[thebish]

Interesting, Peter. He should drop Jussi but Bogdan isn't ready yet? Wish you were our manager instead of that idiot, Coyle.

Here we go....there's no need for the sarcasm William is there really

Who has said that Coyle is an idiot ?

My opinion is that Jaaskelainen is no longer good enough to be our No1, and perhaps the defence have no confidence in him. However my thought is that perhaps Bogdan is not quite ready yet which if this is the case means that Coyle should not have sold Al Habsi - but by doing so must mean that either Coyle rates Bogdan ahead of Al Habsi or perhaps we really were skint and just needed the money.

Who knows perhaps with a run in the team Bogdan may do well, but unless he's given a chance we'll never know - but one thing's
for sure I'd don't think that Jaaskelainen is upto it anymore.

For the record William do you think Jaaskelainen is still a top premiership keeper and deserving of a 1st team place every week ?

all of which still slightly ducks the question... out of the keepers we have - who would you have Coyle pick next week?