The all new whinging, moaning, whining and bitching thread

[lionelator]

I can't believe the reaction that got. Wow, I was trying to suggest that Coyle wants to go for an English, or at least European core to the squad. The African/Middle Eastern/South American players are not targeted at all. That may be a strategy, and theres nowt wrong with that, but it just seems European, and particularly English, players, are relatively overpriced, and therefore clubs with less spending money need to be targeting foreign players from further afar. What exactly is disgusting about proposing a hypothesis like that? Dalglish clearly is pursuing the same strategy, hence he paid 20 million for Jordan Henderson when he wouldn't be worth 5 if he wasn't English.
You lot really need to get out more if you find that disgusting/insulting/whatever.

I didn't consider the hypothesis that there actually other people apart from Coyle that thought Al Habsi wasn't by far a better keeper than Jussi and Bogdan and this season was no time to be pissing about blooding a youngster. Apparently other people feel the same, and they all live in Bolton. Again, try asking a Wigan fan if they'd swap Al Habsi for Jussi or Bogdan. That'd be the Wigan who had safety assured courtesy of an Alcaraz goal, the South American Alcaraz. We have how many South Americans? Coyle is targeting more expensive leagues, and I don't think Bolton can afford to do that.

British clubs will always have a larger European contingency due to government immigration rules. It is quite difficult to bring South American players to this country unless they are well established (out of our price range usually), or have dual nationality. Wigan have a more established scouting network in that part of the world than we do that goes back quite a few years. You could argue we have a better North American scouting network than Wigan. Does that make Martinez crap for not signing Holden or Ream?

For budgetary and possibly idealistic reasons he is trying to buy young players that are not proven yet. This means buying European for work permit reasons.

We didn't piss about blooding Bogdan. Jussi, who was our number one at the time was unable to play. Bogdan did what number 2s do, step up. He had a horror show that day but showed real character to overcome it. He has a way to go, but he has deservedly kept the jersey in my view. Time will tell, but I think Al Habsi has already displayed his best. Bogdan I don't think has.

Comparing to Dalglish is a bit non-sensical. He was sacked earlier btw.

As for your comment in thew original post. You suggested that Coyle sold Al Habsi and kept the 2 European keepers for racial reasons. What is there not to take issue about a statement like that?

Yo are right that British players are over-priced. This is nothing new. I think Coyle needs to find a balance between younger players and some experience, If he retains Davies and Ricketts then I think that gives us that. I'm looking forward to the coming season more than I have done in many years. I'm looking forward to seeing what some of our younger players can do rather than seeing some of the oldies ...

So you talk about immigration rules preventing the signing of foreign players, also the requirements for English players in a club squad, then say you need to take issue with me for stating racial reasons may be behind Al Habsi being let go. I can't help feeling Im missing something here.
Im Indian, if I showed up to try and be a central defender at Bolton, and another guy shows up who's as good or a little worse than me, but had a European passport, he'd likely get in and I wouldn't. Those are the rules. Which is fine. But why is it wrong to suggest that choices for squads don't have an element of race consideration in it? I really don't get it?
Re Dalglish, again, I can't see why you don't get what Im saying, he has chosen to pay 20 million for a player just because he's English when Im sure he would have known he could get an equivalent foreign player for far less, but he wanted an Englishman. Its his choice and everything, just as it was Coyles choice when he was choosing his squad.
Is it really that hard to understand?

[thebish]

if you are seriously suggesting we offloaded Al Habsi because of his race - then I'd suggest you offer some evidence...

in the absence of that - the explanation is simple.

Jussi wasn't going anywhere - he didn't want to - not sellable
Boggers - untested - we'd have got nowt for him

Al Habsi was desperate to be No. 1 keeper - he wanted to go - Wiggin wanted him.

we got a hefty loan fee (don't forget) - and then (for a goalkeeper) a hefty transfer fee.

pretty much a no-brainer.

to allege racial motives is simply ludicrous.

[lionelator]

if you are seriously suggesting we offloaded Al Habsi because of his race - then I'd suggest you offer some evidence...

in the absence of that - the explanation is simple.

Jussi wasn't going anywhere - he didn't want to - not sellable
Boggers - untested - we'd have got nowt for him

Al Habsi was desperate to be No. 1 keeper - he wanted to go - Wiggin wanted him.

we got a hefty loan fee (don't forget) - and then (for a goalkeeper) a hefty transfer fee.

pretty much a no-brainer.

to allege racial motives is simply ludicrous.

Right, its fairly plain people aren't even bothering to read my posts now. Ive just explained this in my previous post.
Theres a difference between making a racially motivated decision and being a racist and racially motivated decisions are legal and I was suggesting that perhaps Coyle wanted to build a team of young European or English youngsters which appears apparent although we can't afford the good players from this continent.
But its clear having a rational adult conversation is out of the question here, vaguely remember why I gave up posting on this board.
So carry on jumping to conclusions.
I won't even bother repeating that Jussi was offered another contract when Al Habsi should have been made number 1 which, again, I put in my previous post.

[Lord Kangana]

By race are you saying ethnicity or nationality?

For example, David NGog is French, he is also black. Sordell is English, yet black. There are others. I've yet to see the racist who was prejudiced primarily by geography.

It doesn't make any sense what you're saying, other than to repeat AT's answer - we are part of the EU, which has freedom of movement for its workforce. Outside of that area, you have to meet stringent requirements for work permits, usually based on appearances for a national side. Most of the time this means either picking up players from shite teams, which is pointless, or not getting any because players from the top nations tend to stick to their own country, or move to the superclubs. We, if you didn't know, are not one of these.

[Bruce Rioja]

Right, its fairly plain people aren't even bothering to read my posts now.

I'm stunned that this one post shone out and made me stop just as I was seriously fast-forwarding through five pages of guff?!

[thebish]

if you are seriously suggesting we offloaded Al Habsi because of his race - then I'd suggest you offer some evidence...

in the absence of that - the explanation is simple.

Jussi wasn't going anywhere - he didn't want to - not sellable
Boggers - untested - we'd have got nowt for him

Al Habsi was desperate to be No. 1 keeper - he wanted to go - Wiggin wanted him.

we got a hefty loan fee (don't forget) - and then (for a goalkeeper) a hefty transfer fee.

pretty much a no-brainer.

to allege racial motives is simply ludicrous.

Right, its fairly plain people aren't even bothering to read my posts now. Ive just explained this in my previous post.
Theres a difference between making a racially motivated decision and being a racist and racially motivated decisions are legal and I was suggesting that perhaps Coyle wanted to build a team of young European or English youngsters which appears apparent although we can't afford the good players from this continent.
But its clear having a rational adult conversation is out of the question here, vaguely remember why I gave up posting on this board.
So carry on jumping to conclusions.
I won't even bother repeating that Jussi was offered another contract when Al Habsi should have been made number 1 which, again, I put in my previous post.

we sold al habsi because it would have been stupid to keep all three - he wanted to go - and he was the only saleable one. I don't see what is difficult about that - and there is no room/reason for any racial plan at all...

there were no employment difficulties over al habsi - he wasn't harder or more difficult to employ - we already employed him. It was a simple, straightforward financial matter made more easy by the fact that al habsi wanted to be number one and was fed up waiting.

(I have not mentioned the word "racist" at all)

[H. Pedersen]

The African/Middle Eastern/South American players are not targeted at all. That may be a strategy, and theres nowt wrong with that, but it just seems European, and particularly English, players, are relatively overpriced, and therefore clubs with less spending money need to be targeting foreign players from further afar.

We used to have a ton of African players because that was an under-exploited market. You could get bargains because clubs weren’t looking there. Another Allardyce masterstroke. That’s no longer the case though. In the absence of bargains you’re better off with EU players due to the rules mentioned by LK and others. Also signing African players in an African Nations Cup year isn’t a great strategy.

We don’t have Middle Eastern players because most of them aren’t very good. How’s Andranik’s career going?

South America is a crap shoot. The leagues there are very different from Europe and especially from England. Any player you get is a big gamble.

[Worthy4England]

Has he fcuked off yet?

[Lord Kangana]

More specific?

[Worthy4England]

More specific?

I just thought I'd leave it open to individual interpretation.

[MM_HarunaKojima]

I'm surprised I haven't heard Danny Shittu's name used for puns, something on the lines of
"This player is so bad he's a piece of shittu" or something like that...

[as]

I'm surprised I haven't heard Danny Shittu's name used for puns, something on the lines of
"This player is so bad he's a piece of shittu" or something like that...

This is getting like a Larry David sketch.

'He said racial'

'He is the anti-christ'

He was sold due to being worth £4m and us having Jussi and Boggers already at the club.

[H. Pedersen]

He was sold due to being worth £4m and us having Jussi and Boggers already at the club.

Racist.

[Sponge]

at this entire thread.

[as]

He was sold due to being worth £4m and us having Jussi and Boggers already at the club.

Racist.

Perhaps later, when we can discuss head measurements and the like.

[MM_HarunaKojima]

Although I do wonder, if we kept Cahill till the end of the season would we have been relegated at all...

[Hoboh]

Although I do wonder, if we kept Cahill till the end of the season would we have been relegated at all...

Yes!

If we had enough bricks and a crackin' brickie to fill the goal mouth Coyle would still have taken us down!

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Selling Al Habsi to Wigan and watching him almost single handedly keep them up sometimes depressed me, Im happy for him but it is a joke that this club couldn't see he was absolutely miles ahead of Jussi and Bogdan. We've dropped points on blooding Bogdan too early. Points we couldn't afford to drop. Al Habsi would have made a huge difference. We practically gave him away. Was it a racial thing? Who knows.

[plymouth wanderer]

just got this off ov skysports tylers teaser thingy me bob

it goes on if goals scored after 90 minutes were excluded it reflects on where we would be in the league


Wigan Athletic: 96m 12s
Stoke City: 96m 10s
Newcastle United: 96m 9s
Arsenal: 96m 4s
Chelsea: 95m 58s
Norwich City: 95m 57s
Blackburn Rovers: 95m 57s
Everton: 95m 56s
Aston Villa: 95m 55s
Tottenham Hotspur: 95m 52s
Sunderland: 95m 48s
West Brom: 95m 47s
Wolves: 95m 42s
Queens Park Rangers: 95m 42s
Fulham: 95m 41s
Liverpool: 95m 41s
Swansea City: 95m 39s
Manchester City: 95m 34s
Manchester United: 95m 24s
Bolton Wanderers: 95m 24s

As you suspect, if goals scored after the 90th minute are excluded then Manchester United would be champions. City have scored eight injury-time goals in the league and have conceded only one and have gained four points after the 90th minute. United have scored just four injury time goals this term and have only picked up an additional two points as a result.

Under this criteria, Tottenham would have finished third and QPR would have been relegated, which shows how important it is to play to the final whistle!

Premier League table if goals scored after the 90th minute are excluded:

Team P W D L F A GD Pts Difference
Man Utd 38 27 6 5 85 30 55 87 -2
Man City 38 26 7 5 83 28 55 85 -4
Tottenham 38 20 9 9 62 39 23 69 0
Arsenal 38 18 11 9 68 46 22 65 -5
Newcastle 38 19 8 11 52 49 3 65 0
Chelsea 38 17 10 11 59 43 16 61 -3
Fulham 38 14 12 12 47 44 3 54 2
Liverpool 38 13 13 12 44 36 8 52 0
Everton 38 13 13 12 46 39 7 52 -4
Swansea 38 13 10 15 42 48 -6 49 2
Norwich 38 13 9 16 50 61 -11 48 1
Sunderland 38 10 15 13 41 42 -1 45 0
West Brom 38 12 9 17 42 50 -8 45 -2
Stoke 38 11 12 15 34 50 -16 45 0
Wigan 38 11 11 16 40 58 -18 44 1
Aston Villa 38 7 17 14 36 49 -13 38 0
Bolton 38 11 5 22 44 74 -30 38 2
QPR 38 10 7 21 40 64 -24 37 0
Blackburn 38 9 8 21 47 71 -24 35 4
Wolves 38 5 10 23 40 81 -41 25 0
[/i]

Fvckers

[ohjimmyjimmy]

So you're saying...the premier league is racist?